Spinoff: Marriage, when do you know it is over?

[The Mystery Machine]

Maybe I am crazy. I just thought of it last night, maybe that is a bad idea?

Reason being... last night he asked me "I am doing better now aren't I"? Yes, he did fine last night. I am starting to feel guilty again about wanting to leave. I guess one decent evening w/o fighting doesn't make a marriage.

Just continue to get your ducks in a row.

At some point you are going to have to sit with him and be serious over getting a divorce.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

Totally not trying to be a drama queen. I am sorry if I came off that way.

If/when I can get a chance to catch my breath at work, I need to call my insurance company and ask if they will pay for some kind of counseling at the individual level (marriage is probably a separate issue).

I have tried to counsel myself based on what I am thinking, and I may be totally off, I don't know. I feel as if I am mourning the loss of my former life. I want my old life back plain and simple. I am struggling to realize that my old life is just plain over. I will never get it back. On an intellectual level, I know this. My heart wants it back sooooo much. Everything used to be fun, enjoyable, and everything was worked out the way I wanted. I had my routine and I was happy with the way things were going.

I know at least on some level, I love my husband. I don't want to hurt him, I don't want bad things to happen to him. I am willing to forgive the past, but I believe that it will never work. I have been told by so many people to cut and run, but that is so much easier to say than it is to do.

The other issue I am facing is the fact that I recently lost my mom, pretty unexpectedly. She was my best friend/confidant. I need her so much right now, but I do not have her. I have not taken time, or even had the chance to comprehend this fact. It hits me in small waves, pretty much daily when I just have to stop and cry for a while. I am hoping that I am not taking out my anger/sadness on him. He has been less than sympathetic about this, he is so focused on himself. It is also no secret that he did not like my mom. Of course even thinking about his really makes me want to get a divorce immediately. Of course all my friends tell me "get out".

I then wonder, is this disaster of a marriage actually a positive thing? It distracts me from actually thinking about what has happened. Every time I think about my mom, I cannot turn off the waterworks. It is like my mind is on overload.

 

[Octoberbeauty]

Okay, here goes:

He's playing you like a fiddle. People like this figure out -- consciously or unconsciously -- just how far and for how long they can push people. When they realize the person is ready to check out, they "fix" the problem for a period of time to haul the person back in. There will be a honeymoon period when they pretend to be fixed for a while until the other person relaxes and re-invests in the relationship. Then they will revert to their former ways. The other person hesitates to make a "big deal" over the reversion, hoping it's just temporary and also because the other person has taught them not to confront them because drama ensues. The fiddler then has the person right back at square one. This can go on FOREVER. Literally, forever.

I have watched people do this for decades. Upclose and personal, I watched my father do this to my mother for over 20 years. TWENTY YEARS. Do you want to live a half life for that long? Do you want to look back and realize, sadly and with great regret, that you wasted your life being played? Because that's what my mother did.

Whether it's husband and wife, siblings, or friends -- in a relationship like these, there is a fiddler and a bow string. As long as the bow string doesn't break, the fiddler will keep playing indefinitely.

This is spot on. Describes my life to a T. Thank you for putting it into perspective.

 

[Shmily1]

Okay, here goes:

He's playing you like a fiddle. People like this figure out -- consciously or unconsciously -- just how far and for how long they can push people. When they realize the person is ready to check out, they "fix" the problem for a period of time to haul the person back in. There will be a honeymoon period when they pretend to be fixed for a while until the other person relaxes and re-invests in the relationship. Then they will revert to their former ways. The other person hesitates to make a "big deal" over the reversion, hoping it's just temporary and also because the other person has taught them not to confront them because drama ensues. The fiddler then has the person right back at square one. This can go on FOREVER. Literally, forever.

I have watched people do this for decades. Upclose and personal, I watched my father do this to my mother for over 20 years. TWENTY YEARS. Do you want to live a half life for that long? Do you want to look back and realize, sadly and with great regret, that you wasted your life being played? Because that's what my mother did.

Whether it's husband and wife, siblings, or friends -- in a relationship like these, there is a fiddler and a bow string. As long as the bow string doesn't break, the fiddler will keep playing indefinitely.

I think you are spot on and there are many more people living this life than you can imagine. Twenty years is a long time to put up with the bull but it is done daily, thinking that the fiddler can actually be nice all the time. They can't. It's like they have hate in their heart for everyone that tries to be close to them.

OP, hugs to you. You'll figure it out. Do what is best for you emotionally and physically. For once, you have to be number 1. Also, I am sorry about your mom. I know the pain of that loss and it is tough when you need them to be there for you and they aren't. Do think of what she would tell you to do in this circumstance. Also, if your daughter was living your life, what would you tell her? Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Mickey'sMainMami]

Maybe I am crazy. I just thought of it last night, maybe that is a bad idea?

Reason being... last night he asked me "I am doing better now aren't I"? Yes, he did fine last night. I am starting to feel guilty again about wanting to leave. I guess one decent evening w/o fighting doesn't make a marriage.

I went thru this a lot in my marriage. It was horrible, my ex was an abusive alcoholic, mostly mentally and verbally but on occasion, physical. I would say our marriage was 80% bad and 20% good. Wow, 20% good over 10 years, sad. With that being said, I know how you feel, there are those small spans of time, where you might be having an upswing or a good day. It's those days that soften your heart again, make you think back and remember the man he used to be and the man you fell in love with. In those moments you start to think that maybe he is changing back to that, maybe he realizes how he treats me and how much I care for him and will be nicer to me. And then in a blink of an eye he is back to being nasty, mean and verbally abusive. He won't change, if you have being dealing with it this long, this is his true personality, this is who he really is.

It took me a long time to realize that I deserved better, that no matter how much I loved him, no matter how much I cared I didn't deserve to be treated like that. I didn't want to fail at my marriage, I too didn't want to just walk away, I had after all vowed to love him through better or worse. BUT, there is a difference between loving someone when times get tough because of things you have no control over. Financial crisis, family issues, sickness, etc...are things that can put a strain on a marriage, but if you are both loving and respectful to each other then I don't feel that is a good reason to just quit and divorce without trying everything first. When you are with someone who doesn't value you as a person, who treats you badly, is abusive, that is not ok, that is not loving someone thru the worst of times, that is being with someone AT THIER WORST!

I hope that made sense, and I feel bad that you feel obligated to stay because he is sick and needs help. His family doesn't want to help him because they know the real him and were strong enough to say they aren't going to accept being treated badly. Being sick is not an excuse for behaving badly or treating others with such a lack of respect! Shame on him.

You deserve better, I think you know the answer, I think you are staying not out of love, but just because you feel bad he is sick and needs help. I would move out and hire a nurses aid to come to the house in the evenings to help him. That way you won't feel guilty about it. I bet you feel a big sense of relief, because you know he will have help and you get to live stress free. Watch how fast you start to feel normal again after being away from him. You will slowly start to realize your self worth again, you will start seeing that you put up with way more than you should have and it will make it that much easier to move on and away from him.

Good luck and lots of prayers and hugs coming your way. Feel free to PM me if you need any more kick starting or ego boosting. This will not be easy and I honestly could not have gotten thru it without my friends and dad helping me and telling me I deserved better. Every time I felt like caving and taking him back I would just call one of them and they would remind me of the rough times or the embarrassing things he did to me an I would get over that really quick! You can do it, you deserve better and you will be so much happier away from him.

 

[Mickey'sMainMami]

Totally not trying to be a drama queen. I am sorry if I came off that way.

If/when I can get a chance to catch my breath at work, I need to call my insurance company and ask if they will pay for some kind of counseling at the individual level (marriage is probably a separate issue).

I have tried to counsel myself based on what I am thinking, and I may be totally off, I don't know. I feel as if I am mourning the loss of my former life. I want my old life back plain and simple. I am struggling to realize that my old life is just plain over. I will never get it back. On an intellectual level, I know this. My heart wants it back sooooo much. Everything used to be fun, enjoyable, and everything was worked out the way I wanted. I had my routine and I was happy with the way things were going.

I know at least on some level, I love my husband. I don't want to hurt him, I don't want bad things to happen to him. I am willing to forgive the past, but I believe that it will never work. I have been told by so many people to cut and run, but that is so much easier to say than it is to do.

The other issue I am facing is the fact that I recently lost my mom, pretty unexpectedly. She was my best friend/confidant. I need her so much right now, but I do not have her. I have not taken time, or even had the chance to comprehend this fact. It hits me in small waves, pretty much daily when I just have to stop and cry for a while. I am hoping that I am not taking out my anger/sadness on him. He has been less than sympathetic about this, he is so focused on himself. It is also no secret that he did not like my mom. Of course even thinking about his really makes me want to get a divorce immediately. Of course all my friends tell me "get out".

I then wonder, is this disaster of a marriage actually a positive thing? It distracts me from actually thinking about what has happened. Every time I think about my mom, I cannot turn off the waterworks. It is like my mind is on overload.

1. It is much easier for people to tell you to cut and run if they have never been thru something like this. Take it from someone who has been there, it will not be easy. After being with someone for so long, you are just used to them, good, bad or indifferent, if you leave it is still a loss. I was at the point in my marriage that I was not in love with my husband anymore. I still loved him, which is weird because I also hated him, but was not IN LOVE with him. I had some good memories with him which during break ups or even deaths, we find ourselves focusing on the good and kind of blocking the bad which makes it very hard to move forward. I had to remind myself of the bad a lot of the times just so I wouldn't cave in a moment of weakness. I had lots of moments of weakness but I just kept reminding myself that I was a good person, a good wife and I tried all I could! In the end it was his failure, not mine and I could walk away knowing I gave 100% but some things just aren't meant to be.

2. I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my mom when I was 17 and now, 20 years later I still miss her terribly. I often wondered what my mom would be thinking if she saw how my ex treated me. I think she would have been very upset and disappointed in me. I hate to say it, but we both have battered woman syndrome and I do think going to therapy will help you. As for marriage counseling, we tried that, let me tell you, after every session I would feel worse than when I walked in. I would get so sick to my stomach seeing my husband turn on the charm, deny my feelings, deny being abusive, play innocent. I think he had the therapist thinking I was the crazy one, I finally told him I refused to go anymore, called the therapist up and told her going was useless. If my husband wasn't going to be honest with her, what point was there in going? It was then I knew he had no intention of changing. How can you change when you won't even admit you have a problem?

3. It will be hard, you will feel bad, you will cry, you will want to give in. You will be ok, you will not die from leaving him even though at first it might feel like you will. You will eventually start to see very clearly how happy, unstressful and truly wonderful life can be. I walked on egg shells, always afraid I would say something to upset him. I got depressed, gained a lot of weight, didn't want to go anywhere or do anything. What kind of life was that? I have never been happier in my entire life than I am right now. I used to wish every night that I would find my knight in shining armor, a man that would whisk me away and treat me like I deserved. I realize I can find happiness in myself, in my friends and co-workers. The world and life is precious and a wonderful thing. there is so much to be thankful for, so much to laugh at, so much to be excited about. I am alone but I am happy, I don't have to worry about someone getting mad at me because I left a dish in the sink, or I didn't cook the right thing or if his favorite shirt wasn't clean. I could just be me and be happy.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Okay, here goes:

He's playing you like a fiddle. People like this figure out -- consciously or unconsciously -- just how far and for how long they can push people. When they realize the person is ready to check out, they "fix" the problem for a period of time to haul the person back in. There will be a honeymoon period when they pretend to be fixed for a while until the other person relaxes and re-invests in the relationship. Then they will revert to their former ways. The other person hesitates to make a "big deal" over the reversion, hoping it's just temporary and also because the other person has taught them not to confront them because drama ensues. The fiddler then has the person right back at square one. This can go on FOREVER. Literally, forever.

I have watched people do this for decades. Upclose and personal, I watched my father do this to my mother for over 20 years. TWENTY YEARS. Do you want to live a half life for that long? Do you want to look back and realize, sadly and with great regret, that you wasted your life being played? Because that's what my mother did.

Whether it's husband and wife, siblings, or friends -- in a relationship like these, there is a fiddler and a bow string. As long as the bow string doesn't break, the fiddler will keep playing indefinitely.

So true.

I also think there's a fear of the unknown that causes people to stay. When you are in the situation, you often don't really see just how bad it is. Things don't just go from good to bad. It's a gradual series of steps so it can be hard to see how far down it has really gone. People tend to be afraid of major changes. Sometimes it's easier to stay with what you know.

 

[OK!]

His "official" diagnosis so far is severe depression. It is tied in w/his health problems. I know he has had a tough time, but "walking on eggshells" is a good way of describing my existence. He has been verbally brutal to me. He tells me to shut up (along with expletives), he calls me names, he calls me stupid he berates me, he belittles me and says things that cannot be unsaid. He is not in good enough physical shape to physically abuse me, other than throwing some stuff at me.

I've never been married but have been in a mentally abusive relationship and I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you're going through this.

 

[KiKi Mouse]

There's some good books on codependency. One of them is called codependent no more.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

Thank you to everybody who has offered kind words and support! Mickey'sMainMami, I am also sorry about what you had to go through. I know it is tough!

It is funny the little things that seem to backset me. While digging through stuff to try to remove from the house, I run across little things he got me. It makes me think of the good that existed.

When he spoke of the future together, "when" we move etc... It was like WOW, I hate to pull the rug from underneath somebody. For the first time in a long time, I got an "I love you" before I walked out the door to go to work. At the same time I am a bit suspicious...I cannot help but think that he might have figured out what I am up to, and he is making a last-ditch effort to keep me. I guess it doesn't take a keen detective to figure out that I might be planning on leaving after telling him "if you want me gone, I'm gone" and seeing me carrying boxes out of the house a few days ago.

As it stands, I should be getting the paperwork tomorrow. I was advised by the lawyer to just spring it on him with no warning. He said it is absolutely essential that I get him to sign an uncontested divorce. I will soon have my ducks in a row. I feel that it is more a question of when it blows up instead of if.

If he wants to treat me right, great... if not, I will be in a position to actually do something. (Assuming I get my paperwork tomorrow) Things could go well for the rest of our lives, they could last until the next holiday, this could all end tomorrow. I am not going to do anything to provoke him, but I am not going to cower to him anymore. I am done fighting with him.

 

[lauradis]

There's some good books on codependency. One of them is called codependent no more.

Beware of self therapy in an over emotional state. You need a professional.

http://www.amazon.com/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself-ebook/dp/B00BS027FC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409880837&sr=8-1&keywords=codependent+no+more

 

[kkandaj]

There's some good books on codependency. One of them is called codependent no more.

This is an excellent book and was recommended by my marriage counselor several years ago. It will help with setting boundaries in all your relationships, not just your relationship with your husband. Good luck OP!

 

[knewton64]

rediscover who you really are.




Stay strong - we are all behind you.



Yes, I agree with above poster.....read a book that you feel is most applicable to your issue.


Me??? It was a book on BOUNDARIES & Barriers.....how to set them....how to enforce them.



Take care -




T.T.F.N.
& CHEERS Y'ALL

 

[stemikger]

Sorry you are going throiugh this. I have a feeling you already know the answer. Unfortunately, there are no easy answers. If you want to save the marriage I would ask him to seek marriage counseling. If he refuses, then he made the choice for you. Good Luck. We only have one life to live, so we might as try our best to be happy living it.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Thank you to everybody who has offered kind words and support! Mickey'sMainMami, I am also sorry about what you had to go through. I know it is tough!

It is funny the little things that seem to backset me. While digging through stuff to try to remove from the house, I run across little things he got me. It makes me think of the good that existed.

When he spoke of the future together, "when" we move etc... It was like WOW, I hate to pull the rug from underneath somebody. For the first time in a long time, I got an "I love you" before I walked out the door to go to work. At the same time I am a bit suspicious...I cannot help but think that he might have figured out what I am up to, and he is making a last-ditch effort to keep me. I guess it doesn't take a keen detective to figure out that I might be planning on leaving after telling him "if you want me gone, I'm gone" and seeing me carrying boxes out of the house a few days ago.

As it stands, I should be getting the paperwork tomorrow. I was advised by the lawyer to just spring it on him with no warning. He said it is absolutely essential that I get him to sign an uncontested divorce. I will soon have my ducks in a row. I feel that it is more a question of when it blows up instead of if.

If he wants to treat me right, great... if not, I will be in a position to actually do something. (Assuming I get my paperwork tomorrow) Things could go well for the rest of our lives, they could last until the next holiday, this could all end tomorrow. I am not going to do anything to provoke him, but I am not going to cower to him anymore. I am done fighting with him.

Another way of looking at it is that he is happy you are leaving. It is really just a matter of perspective.

Whether he wants you to stay or leave is really not the issue here.

Whether you end up divorcing or not, living with an abusive spouse is not acceptable period.

 

[flortlebap]

Hope you're ok.

Just remember you need to do what's best for you. It's terrifying but if things are bad, they can only get better!

 

[MickeySP]

Follow what you think is right. Don't let him guilt you back if you need to leave.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

Not really much to report... I still don't have my paperwork. I was supposed to get it Friday, but it wasn't ready.

He threw a fit w/me Saturday morning... It was the same argument we have had often. I needed to go grocery shopping and he didn't want me to go, which was almost to be expected. Although I had been telling him all week that I needed to do this, it was still a brouhaha when Saturday actually arrived. I happen to like going out on Saturday morning and getting the shopping done. It gives me a chance to get out of the house and clear my head.

I walked on eggshells the rest of the weekend and stayed out of trouble. I have to find out today if the papers are drawn up. I guess in my own mind, I am done. Everything he does now just makes the decision easier.

 

[Shmily1]

Hang in there. Remember to do what is best for you. Him putting you down all the time is not good for you. Even though you may think he's not getting to you, deep down, he's really breaking you down. It's time to put yourself and your well being first, whatever you decide that is.

 

[NewRVLady]

Not really much to report... I still don't have my paperwork. I was supposed to get it Friday, but it wasn't ready.

He threw a fit w/me Saturday morning... It was the same argument we have had often. I needed to go grocery shopping and he didn't want me to go,

I walked on eggshells the rest of the weekend and stayed out of trouble. I have to find out today if the papers are drawn up. I guess in my own mind, I am done. Everything he does now just makes the decision easier.

I cant even IMAGINE this scenario-or living like this