Spending at Disney increasing

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Apparently, ~92% of the DISBoards doesn't agree with you. It's still early in the poll, but I suspect this trend will do nothing but continue, as I feel the evidence is overwhelming...

The dis agrees you get less for your dollar, but I assume they agree more guests than ever are pulling the trigger on WDW visits, in other words more guests than ever have decided the value is there.

I made the point you can drop a resort category and pay the same price as 11 years ago-obviously that guest is indeed getting less-but still can afford to go.

If more people decided it was not a value they agree with, attendance would be down-not up.

 

[Planogirl]

Value is subjective and it really depends on what you're referring to. People might still find that the parks or just certain parks have value but not the resorts. That might be why many of the deluxe rooms are being converted into DVC. Some might decided that the food doesn't have as much value or the tours or the merchandise or whatever. You can't necessarily look at everything as one solid thing when there are so many variable.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Value is subjective and it really depends on what you're referring to. People might still find that the parks or just certain parks have value but not the resorts. That might be why many of the deluxe rooms are being converted into DVC. Some might decided that the food doesn't have as much value or the tours or the merchandise or whatever. You can't necessarily look at everything as one solid thing when there are so many variable.

Agreed, the only sure thing is attendance IMO. If its up-value is there/increasing.

 

[Planogirl]

Agreed, the only sure thing is attendance IMO. If its up-value is there/increasing.

That also depends. (Doesn't everything? ) If people aren't eating or buying stuff or staying onsite, that's a loss for Disney. Attendance is only one part of the puzzle.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

That also depends. (Doesn't everything? ) If people aren't eating or buying stuff or staying onsite, that's a loss for Disney. Attendance is only one part of the puzzle.

True, but its a broader use than that IMO.

Attendance of deluxe for example-if its indeed down, they have to decide what to do. Lower prices, cater to guests with more money to spend, have discounts, create packages, add extra FP+, convert to DVC etc.

If Values are packed (high attendance) what do you do? Build more, increase prices, reduce packages, reduce FP+.

Fine dining is down. Lower prices, increase quality, increase qty, create packages, cater to guests with more money to spend.

Fine dining is up. Increase prices, build more at D Springs, probably not reduce quality or qty.

Counter service is down, lower prices, free dining, increase quality and/or qty.

Souvenir are down. Inc quality, lower prices, MM+ ease of purchase, cater to guests that have more money to spend.

But if the park attendance is up, more guests have decided the value of that is there.

 

[oddman]

True, but its a broader use than that IMO.


But if the park attendance is up, more guests have decided the value of that is there.

whoa there buddy.

Just because attendance is up does not mean those visiting believe it is good value. They might well think it is the worst value Disney has every offered, but still go because for the first time they can afford it! Foreign visitors are up and spending more than ever, but that most likely reflects the huge increases in spending power we have seen from BRICs.

 

[Andrew015]

Just in case anyone wondered how the value pole trended over the weekend:

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Just in case anyone wondered how the value pole trended over the weekend:

whoa there buddy.

Just because attendance is up does not mean those visiting believe it is good value. They might well think it is the worst value Disney has every offered, but still go because for the first time they can afford it! Foreign visitors are up and spending more than ever, but that most likely reflects the huge increases in spending power we have seen from BRICs.

I believe a lot of folks, esp repeat visitors would think the dollar doesn't go as far now. Obviously any new visitors have nothing to compare to. As I have even mentioned you need to drop a resort category to pay the same as in 2005.

Even for us UNI/IOA are already less value than 1, 2 or 3 years ago because we have done the HP stuff a lot already.

As for individuals deciding what "value level" means pulling the plug on going, or the pulling trigger on going is really all that can be measured IMO. Apparently more guests than ever are pulling the trigger and going.

 

[Andrew015]

I believe a lot of folks, esp repeat visitors would think the dollar doesn't go as far now. Obviously any new visitors have nothing to compare to. As I have even mentioned you need to drop a resort category to pay the same as in 2005.

Which would equate to "less value for the money".

As for individuals deciding what "value level" means pulling the plug on going, or the pulling trigger on going is really all that can be measured IMO. Apparently more guests than ever are pulling the trigger and going.

Yep. Raising prices AND simultaneously targeting the deeper pockets is paying significant dividends for TWDC.

 

[peg110]

The problem in a poll like suggested here is you could replace "WDW Vacation" with just about ANYTHING (Grocery Store, New Car, Savings Account, Ear of corn, etc...) and get the same results. That's the nature of our economy. A dollar today does not go as far as a dollar of yesterday. Anyone in Business or investing can tell you about this.

In simple terms, a loaf of bread that cost $1.00 in the past now costs $2.00. So a "Dollar" today only buys half as much bread, so the value is less.

So really the poll is invalid (or rather not appropriately phrased). I think a better Poll questions is "Do you find it more worthwhile to enjoy a Disney Vacation today versus 1990-2000's?" With simple Yes or No responses (and possibly an "Unsure" and/or a "I am a first time Visitor").

 

[seascapemvy]

Is WDW worth the prices they charge? Yes if you take advantage of DVC membership and annual passes. We go three time a year and stay in DVC resorts on our points. We spend about the cost of the value resorts but get to stay at the deluxed resorts. On the other hand we find the idea of paying Universal prices completely unreasonable. To have buy park to park passes to ride Hogwatrz Express in just plain robbery. We will never pay that much of a premium for one ride. We were thinking about going to Universal to see the HP stuff when the new expansion opened but unlike Pete's view that the park to park requirement was a good idea we disagree and it is keeping us from going because we spend nothing to spend another day at one of Disney's parks or water parks but to spend $300 for one day at Universal for just 2 of us is crazy and not worth it. That is more than our season tickets to six flags parks.

As for the food and other shopping costs they may be high but we love our vacations and they are no more expensive than our Italian vacations or other beach vacations. We planned our lives to enjoy ourselves. Plan, save and invest while young and you can live and enjoy retirement. You do not have to be born rich to live very comfortably when retired.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Which would equate to "less value for the money".

Exactly, hence the "even I" have pointed that out. As is UNI/IOA now that we have done the HP options over and over-it is now less value than before when it was all new to us.

Still more guests going than ever, which is my point. So paying the same price now as 11 years ago is a good option for somebody on that budget.

Yep. Raising prices AND simultaneously targeting the deeper pockets is paying significant dividends for TWDC.

Very true, deeper pockets leads to more capital, more expansion, better surroundings, more and finer dining establishments, more hard ticket options on and on when compared to targeting empty pockets.

 

[Andrew015]

Exactly, hence the "even I" have pointed that out. As is UNI/IOA now that we have done the HP options over and over-it is now less value than before when it was all new to us.

Still more guests going than ever, which is my point. So paying the same price now as 11 years ago is a good option for somebody on that budget.

Your points have ranged from "there's more value today" to "anyone can afford it". Now you're landing on "attendance is up"? I suppose my response will be... "No kidding"???

Very true, deeper pockets leads to more capital, more expansion, better surroundings, more and finer dining establishments, more hard ticket options on and on when compared to targeting empty pockets.

All well and good.... for now. What happens if/when it gets to a price point where you and I can no longer afford it? Oh well, I suppose? Nice run while it lasted? Put yourself in the shoes of those who have been priced out. Disney was never intended to be an elitist destination.

"Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams, and the hard facts that have created America... with hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world." Walt never mentioned anything about what your stock portfolio looks like, and in a nutshell, that's essentially what we have today.

I get it. That's big business today, and that's what we are faced with. Either you can afford it or you can't, regardless if the prices are "justifiable". There's no going back to the "good old days", so like it or leave it. Personally, I don't agree with the direction. Evidently, you do, and that's fine. That's really nothing more that needs to be said.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Your points have ranged from "there's more value today"

My points have always been value is up to the individual. Heck just adding the A&E M&G could increase somebody's value over previous trips.

to "anyone can afford it".

When did I say that? AT most I said you can price some vacations the same, even less than before.

Now you're landing on "attendance is up"? I suppose my response will be... "No kidding"???

Attendance is up.

All well and good.... for now. What happens if/when it gets to a price point where you and I can no longer afford it? Oh well, I suppose? Nice run while it lasted?

Actually yes, it's not my business to run. If I can't budget a trip somewhere-guess what? I'm not going there.

But WDW targeting deep pockets on one end of the scale, doesn't mean the other end of the scale isn't there anymore.

Put yourself in the shoes of those who have been priced out. Disney was never intended to be an elitist destination.

"Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams, and the hard facts that have created America... with hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world." Walt never mentioned anything about what your stock portfolio looks like.

It was never meant to be visited 2 weeks a year by everyone on the planet either.

I get it. That's big business today, and that's what we are faced with. Either you can afford it or you can't. There's no going back to the "good old days", so like it or leave it. Personally, I don't agree with the direction. Evidently, you do, and that's fine. That's really nothing more that needs to be said.

100% Agree, glad you get it. Also "directions" can/do change.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Also, after $10 Billion going in this decade, partly because of the deep/er pocket targeting/spending, we will have a vastly improved complex in WDW Resorts IMO.

The pricing/packages can come back in line after that if needed, to attract more visitors from a down economy and/or further competition.

I agree they didn't expand a lot through the great recession, but seem to be switching gears during this upswing and US expansion.

The future appears bright for WDW IMO. Affordability/value will relate to attendance IMO.

 

[Andrew015]

The pricing/packages can come back in line after that if needed, to attract more visitors from a down economy and/or further competition.

Keep dreaming. Dating back to 1971, prices have only ever moved in one direction.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Keep dreaming. Dating back to 1971, prices have only ever moved in one direction.

Actually I'm dreaming people will get better jobs, more hours so it won't matter as much.

 

[Andrew015]

My points have always been value is up to the individual.

No, your position throughout most of this post has been “there’s more value today than ever before”. A few examples to jog your memory:

And I'll say this again tho, apparently more guests than ever have decided it is more valuable than ever-otherwise attendance would be declining.

Pricing will continue to rise IMO. Then again there will be more value…

When did I say that? AT most I said you can price some vacations the same, even less than before.

Right here:

Still affordable choices for Middle Class, and many Lower Class even.

You further insinuate that “any family can go if they can forgo their Ipads, cell phones and other “frivolous” spending”.

Attendance is up.

Again, I say “No kidding”???

It was never meant to be visited 2 weeks a year by everyone on the planet either.

And I never said that it should be. But thanks for trying to insinuate as such.

I’m done going round’ and round’ with you. I think we’ve both stated our pieces, and it’s pretty clear that we’re on opposite sides of this topic.

 

[Planogirl]

Exactly, hence the "even I" have pointed that out. As is UNI/IOA now that we have done the HP options over and over-it is now less value than before when it was all new to us.

Still more guests going than ever, which is my point. So paying the same price now as 11 years ago is a good option for somebody on that budget.



Very true, deeper pockets leads to more capital, more expansion, better surroundings, more and finer dining establishments, more hard ticket options on and on when compared to targeting empty pockets.

That's an interesting observation. We haven't reached that point yet but we have with some Disney attractions and even one Disney themepark. I never thought of it in terms of value before.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

No, your position throughout most of this post has been “there’s more value today than ever before”. A few examples to jog your memory:



Right here:

You further insinuate that “any family can go if they can forgo their Ipads, cell phones and other “frivolous” spending”.


Again, I say “No kidding”???

And I never said that it should be.
I’m done going round’ and round’ with you. I think we’ve both stated our pieces, and it’s pretty clear that we’re on opposite sides of this topic.

None of those say "anybody can afford it".