Spending at Disney increasing

[mcjaco]

I'm beginning to think this is more about people getting their undies in a bunch because they can't afford the high end stuff.

 

[Andrew015]

I'm beginning to think this is more about people getting their undies in a bunch because they can't afford the high end stuff.

I'm thinking you should stop with the false, baseless accusations. My visits consist of deluxe (DVC) accommodations ranging from 12 - 15 nights in total per year (on average), include the most expensive ticket media (AP's). Dinner always consists of a nice, TS meal (no cooking in the rooms, QS only for breakfast or a mid-day snack). We golf, do dinner shows, purchase gobs of merchandise that we don't need, etc. No, I'm not in the Poly Bungalow class, but it's probably a pretty safe bet that I'm in the top ~10-20% in terms of annual spend per guest.

Point of this post is not to brag. It's to illustrate that I'm not complaining because I'm on the outside looking in. Rather, I'm on the inside saying, "This isn't as good of a deal as it used to be". The evidence just isn't there to support otherwise.

 

[rteetz]

But that is because of WS-love it.

If only WS wasn't becoming Fantasyland 2.0

 

[mcjaco]

Point of this post is not to brag.

It came across that way.

And my post was no such accusation. A mere observation, as these discussions seem to be permeating the boards lately, and it's starting to come across as whining for the sake of whining. Which Disney nuts like to do when things aren't going there way. Adventurer's Club going away? Let's complain for seven years about it. Imagination sucks? Let's complain. Great family deals on accommodations? Let's book the trip, then complain about the crowds. It goes on and on.


If you think it was pointed at you....well, then.

 

[rteetz]

I'm thinking you should stop with the false, baseless accusations. My visits consist of deluxe (DVC) accommodations ranging from 12 - 15 nights in total per year (on average), include the most expensive ticket media (AP's). Dinner always consists of a nice, TS meal (no cooking in the rooms, QS only for breakfast or a mid-day snack). We golf, do dinner shows, purchase gobs of merchandise that we don't need, etc. No, I'm not in the Poly Bungalow class, but it's probably a pretty safe bet that I'm in the top ~10-20% in terms of annual spend per guest.

Point of this post is not to brag. It's to illustrate that I'm not complaining because I'm on the outside looking in. Rather, I'm on the inside saying, "This isn't as good of a deal as it used to be". The evidence just isn't there to support otherwise.

I am not like you with the deluxe stays and add ons but I agree. For me this coming january will be my first deluxe stay ever on WDW property, I guess you could count the dolphin but that wasn't a disney hotel. We are staying at the Beach Club and doing the dining plan. My grandma is the one paying for the trip so that is why we are splurging a bit more. In the past we have been all value and moderate and only moderate because we have a family of five and that was the cheapest option otherwise value is good enough for us. We always stay on property but always have a very restricted budget and don't go every year. Usually we go every other year because it takes that long to save. Prior to the economic downfall we had little bit more money and would vacation longer or more frequently. Now we go less frequently and stay a couple days less. Things have most definitely gotten more expensive and we've had to change how we do WDW in ways but we still make it work for now. If things keep going up and up more frequently we may not be able to afford even every other year or at all.

 

[rteetz]

It came across that way.

And my post was no such accusation. A mere observation, as these discussions seem to be permeating the boards lately, and it's starting to come across as whining for the sake of whining. Which Disney nuts like to do when things aren't going there way. Adventurer's Club going away? Let's complain for seven years about it. Imagination sucks? Let's complain. Great family deals on accommodations? Let's book the trip, then complain about the crowds. It goes on and on.


If you think it was pointed at you....well, then.

People are always going to complain about something that is never going change. People still think they should rebuild Horizons. There is a point at Disney where some things do suck, DHS is one of them. Yes the park still has good attractions but it has 5 rides and a few shows. For a repeat guest like most of us we aren't going to spend more than a full day if that at that park.

 

[Andrew015]

It came across that way.

And my post was no such accusation. A mere observation, as these discussions seem to be permeating the boards lately, and it's starting to come across as whining for the sake of whining. Which Disney nuts like to do when things aren't going there way. Adventurer's Club going away? Let's complain for seven years about it. Imagination sucks? Let's complain. Great family deals on accommodations? Let's book the trip, then complain about the crowds. It goes on and on.


If you think it was pointed at you....well, then.

I didn't think you were singling me out, but rather, lumping anyone on the other side of the argument together. Regardless, I get where you are coming from to an extent. But I don't view this particular argument as "complaining just to complain". I think there is a real debate to be had regarding the value proposition pertaining to a WDW vacation today. In my opinion, it's obvious that the overall value proposition has been trending in the wrong direction. It hasn't been enough to keep me and my family from going, but I do believe it's a significant enough of a shift to be a game-changer for many families. It's not being seen in published attendance numbers because for every middle-class or under family that drops out, Disney is trying to lure 2-3 new ones from the more affluent demographics. Obviously, it's working in their favor (for now)...

 

[pilferk]

And my post was no such accusation.

From someone outside, watching....it came across that way. Still is, actually.

And what's worse, I wonder: Those complaining? Or people complaining about those complaining.....

 

[mcjaco]

I am not like you with the deluxe stays and add ons but I agree. For me this coming january will be my first deluxe stay ever on WDW property, I guess you could count the dolphin but that wasn't a disney hotel. We are staying at the Beach Club and doing the dining plan. My grandma is the one paying for the trip so that is why we are splurging a bit more. In the past we have been all value and moderate and only moderate because we have a family of five and that was the cheapest option otherwise value is good enough for us. We always stay on property but always have a very restricted budget and don't go every year. Usually we go every other year because it takes that long to save. Prior to the economic downfall we had little bit more money and would vacation longer or more frequently. Now we go less frequently and stay a couple days less. Things have most definitely gotten more expensive and we've had to change how we do WDW in ways but we still make it work for now. If things keep going up and up more frequently we may not be able to afford even every other year or at all.

The only time I really got worked up about the price was when I started looking at the prices for after my kids turned 3 (which is why we went last November to avoid it). Our next trip will be November of 2016. For us with little kids, the value is there, especially if you spend 2 days at MK, 1 at DHS, 1 at AK, and 1 (or 2) at EPCOT. The kids don't care if there's only five rides at DHS. They have a PLAYGROUND! So it's really a matter of perspective.

I've been going almost annually for years. I've never felt the value wasn't there. I also stay off property, as my family bought two timeshares, way back so it makes no sense for us to stay on the grounds (although my wife would like to at some point).

People are always going to complain about something that is never going change. People still think they should rebuild Horizons. There is a point at Disney where some things do suck, DHS is one of them. Yes the park still has good attractions but it has 5 rides and a few shows. For a repeat guest like most of us we aren't going to spend more than a full day if that at that park.

Again, as before, it's a matter of perspective. With young kids now, the parks take on a whole different viewpoint, and the value is there for us. Am I bored with some of the stagnant stuff? Yes. But I've been there so many times, it's to be expected. My kids are seeing the parks with new eyes, and that's exciting.

I didn't think you were singling me out, but rather, lumping anyone on the other side of the argument together. Regardless, I get where you are coming from to an extent. But I don't view this particular argument as "complaining just to complain". I think there is a real debate to be had regarding the value proposition pertaining to a WDW vacation today. In my opinion, it's obvious that the overall value proposition has been trending in the wrong direction. It hasn't been enough to keep me and my family from going, but I do believe it's a significant enough of a shift to be a game-changer for many families. It's not being seen in published attendance numbers because for every middle-class or under family that drops out, Disney is trying to lure 2-3 new ones from the more affluent demographics. Obviously, it's working in their favor (for now)...

My first thought was maybe this trend was started after all the bad press, when they were having weekly news stories about guests beating on each other, smacking characters....so yeah, maybe they are trying to price out some types. Not sure I can blame them.

Past comments explain my feelings on the value. I think it's there.

 

[mcjaco]

And what's worse, I wonder: Those complaining? Or people complaining about those complaining.....

Or those complaining about the complainers complaining about the complainers.

 

[pilferk]

Or those complaining about the complainers complaining about the complainers.

Ah..I was waiting for that.

See, I'm not complaining about you complaining about the complainers. I think you have every right to do it. But, I'm noting it for you, and wondering, aloud, using "your' sensibilities, which would be considered worse. If, in fact, your objections were genuine.

I'm also pointing out the hypocrisy of doing so. Because, at the end of the day, you're doing exactly what you're complaining about. At least the original "complainers" are not doing that....

 

[rteetz]

The only time I really got worked up about the price was when I started looking at the prices for after my kids turned 3 (which is why we went last November to avoid it). Our next trip will be November of 2016. For us with little kids, the value is there, especially if you spend 2 days at MK, 1 at DHS, 1 at AK, and 1 (or 2) at EPCOT. The kids don't care if there's only five rides at DHS. They have a PLAYGROUND! So it's really a matter of perspective.

I've been going almost annually for years. I've never felt the value wasn't there. I also stay off property, as my family bought two timeshares, way back so it makes no sense for us to stay on the grounds (although my wife would like to at some point).

In our family there are my two parents, which in my mothers case she has been every year since about 1974 to about 1990 something. My moms family would go every spring break and camp at fort wilderness, and back then it was incredibly cheap to do disney that way. Now I am the oldest being 17 and my sisters are 13 and 9. My older sister has only been 3 times, my youngest twice. I have been 7 times. That gap is there because we go less frequently because of expense. Being older kids and in my mother and I's case we want to see new things, playgrounds don't work for us anymore. Disney from the 70s to the 90s was always doing new things whether it was new firework shows, parades, entertainment, rides, etc. Today WDW doesn't do that anymore. For us DHS is a half day park we ride what we can and get out because there isn't anything else. Epcot is still a full day but there is plenty room for improvement. AK is probably my favorite park right now and then MK of course I could spend days at.

Again, as before, it's a matter of perspective. With young kids now, the parks take on a whole different viewpoint, and the value is there for us. Am I bored with some of the stagnant stuff? Yes. But I've been there so many times, it's to be expected. My kids are seeing the parks with new eyes, and that's exciting.

As disney fans we shouldn't expect that. Disney used to be one company that would always out do themselves stagnancy was never a problem now it is. I was first taken at 8 months old and I can tell you I don't remember a thing I was on my fourth trip by the time I was seven and thats the farthest I can remember back.

 

[mcjaco]

Ah..I was waiting for that.

See, I'm not complaining about you complaining about the complainers. I think you have every right to do it. But, I'm noting it for you, and wondering, aloud, using "your' sensibilities, which would be considered worse. If, in fact, your objections were genuine.

I'm also pointing out the hypocrisy of doing so. Because, at the end of the day, you're doing exactly what you're complaining about. At least the original "complainers" are not doing that....

Noted.

Just seeing a lot of "Disney is messing with the Middle Class" threads. How many times can you beat the same argument over the head, from different directions? Oops. I just complained again!

 

[pilferk]

Noted.

Just seeing a lot of "Disney is messing with the Middle Class" threads. How many times can you beat the same argument over the head, from different directions? Oops. I just complained again!

I think it's one that takes on many, many forms...so it sort of bleeds into lots of topics.

There's been business type arguments as long as there's been a DIS.....Hell, I think Brian aka Bicker was one of the innaugural Disboards members/posters. And they run the gammut. Some of them repeat, some are unique, some are perpetual.

This one hits people close to the heart (pocketbook, too), so I'm not surprised as to how much it's permeating other topics/theads. I find it an interesting read...and I jump in here and there....because, IMHO, it's very obvious what Disney's business plan seems to be. I've thought it has been their plan for at least the past 3 years to deal with crowd issues by pricing out some of the market, or at least making it a less attractive option (in terms of frequency, etc), while making up the "shortfall" (ie: making sure the balance sheet continues to show increases) by bringing in guests it suspects will be bigger per capital spenders.

And there are challenges to that strategy. ONE of them is actually exactly what this thread embodies: What happens if people notice? What kind of blowback or hit does Disney take to it's reputation if, in fact, it starts making it harder (and sacrificing other "stuff" to do WDW, or "downgrading" from your previous experience would constitute "harder" IMHO) for certain economic strata to make their annual visit.

Disney, unlike Six Flags, and unlike Universal, is sort of seen as an institution...and a WDW vacation is almost like a rite of passage. At least right now, in our cultural conciousness. Up til now, it's been about as attainable as a flat screen TV is, to most economic strata, with a modicum of savings and "restraint". That's changing. I haven't seen ONE argument that counters that. Even minnie-apple-mouse is (maybe unknowingly) acknowledging it.

You can argue whether it's a good or bad thing. You can argue value calculations and budget tips, and their effect on this thing. You can argue WHY it's a thing, in terms of business reasons, etc. But I'm not sure you can argue it's NOT a thing.

It is, comparing like experience to like experience, MUCH more expensive....certainly more expensive than annual salary growth would correlate...than it was even 10 years ago, to go to WDW. By 60%+- ish.

Given it's effect on a very large segement of the WDW going population....I'm not surprised that crops up a lot.

 

[wareagle57]

This I will kind of agree with. A chicken tender basket with a drink at six flags will cost just about $20 for one person. At least at Disney I can get a quick service meal for less than that.

I was really just talking about admission and the fact that (for me) going to Disney requires staying in a hotel, and usually an expensive one on property, plus travel. I can get a season pass to Six Flags for 60 bucks and go for the day as many times as I'm willing to endure it. QS food is definitely much more affordable at Disney.

 

[wareagle57]

I don't see how the hard ticket events and dessert parties and expensive bungalows are a strike against Disney/the middle class. People are paying the ridiculous prices for the things they don't really need. Disney is making money off of that. It doesn't negatively impact my trip that someone is paying 70 dollars to eat desserts during Wishes while I am standing on Main St with a straight on view. Don't all of those things actually make MY trip cheaper?

 

[mcjaco]

In our family there are my two parents, which in my mothers case she has been every year since about 1974 to about 1990 something. My moms family would go every spring break and camp at fort wilderness, and back then it was incredibly cheap to do disney that way. Now I am the oldest being 17 and my sisters are 13 and 9. My older sister has only been 3 times, my youngest twice. I have been 7 times. That gap is there because we go less frequently because of expense. Being older kids and in my mother and I's case we want to see new things, playgrounds don't work for us anymore. Disney from the 70s to the 90s was always doing new things whether it was new firework shows, parades, entertainment, rides, etc. Today WDW doesn't do that anymore. For us DHS is a half day park we ride what we can and get out because there isn't anything else. Epcot is still a full day but there is plenty room for improvement. AK is probably my favorite park right now and then MK of course I could spend days at.

As disney fans we shouldn't expect that. Disney used to be one company that would always out do themselves stagnancy was never a problem now it is. I was first taken at 8 months old and I can tell you I don't remember a thing I was on my fourth trip by the time I was seven and thats the farthest I can remember back.

Like you, my first trip was at six months (way back in 75). We went every year after that until '89. My parents love Disney, and it was just where we went. It only slowed down due to entering high school (amusing as my freshman year in band was to Disney anyway), and then of course onto college. I actually found it more boring in my teen years, but that was really before they started to cater to teens with rides. Going back in my early twenties was fun, especially once drinks around the world became a thing. And Downtown Disney was cool to hangout at.

I was never a fan of DHS. Once I got past the Animation Building (as that's what I dreamed of doing), it was just meh. So being there more than a 1/2 day has never happened anyway!

Fans may expect constant changes, but we just a small sample of the over all picture of people coming through the gates. There's so many people that only go once, maybe twice, and that's the only visit they'll ever have, so changes mean nothing to them. I was in complete confusion when we took my grandparents as a pre-teen, and neither had ever been to the parks. I had no idea there were people out there that didn't go!

 

[rteetz]

Like you, my first trip was at six months (way back in 75). We went every year after that until '89. My parents love Disney, and it was just where we went. It only slowed down due to entering high school (amusing as my freshman year in band was to Disney anyway), and then of course onto college. I actually found it more boring in my teen years, but that was really before they started to cater to teens with rides. Going back in my early twenties was fun, especially once drinks around the world became a thing. And Downtown Disney was cool to hangout at.

I was never a fan of DHS. Once I got past the Animation Building (as that's what I dreamed of doing), it was just meh. So being there more than a 1/2 day has never happened anyway!

Fans may expect constant changes, but we just a small sample of the over all picture of people coming through the gates. There's so many people that only go once, maybe twice, and that's the only visit they'll ever have, so changes mean nothing to them. I was in complete confusion when we took my grandparents as a pre-teen, and neither had ever been to the parks. I had no idea there were people out there that didn't go!

I agree. I don't think that there needs to be constant changes but changes every few years to maybe every five would be good. Like illuminations and wishes, I love both but they are both or 10 years old a little change would be nice especially with what Disney is capable of today looking at spectaculars in California, Paris and Tokyo. Disney also used to do new parades all the time whether it was an anniversary, new movie etc. I'm very happy with festival of fantasy right now but I don't know if I will be 10+ years from now if it's still here. MSEP would be a better example as that is 40 years old, looking at paint the night and Dreamlights in Tokyo it's time for a change in a nighttime parade at MK.

 

[peg110]

I'm not sure what local parks you're talking about, but I have the exact opposite experience with other parks compared to Disney. At Disney, there is a method to the madness and every day is pretty predictable. When I go to Six Flags on a Saturday, I am in for a miserable day and I might get to ride a roller coaster 8-10 times. Disney may cost a little more than going to Six Flags, but there is definitely a huge quality increase.

My Local park is Knoebels (in Elysburg, PA). No parking fee, no admission fee. You can either purchase Tickets to ride the rides (often at discounts) or an "All Day Handstamp" which is usually less than $40.00 Plus you can bring in food or buy theirs. They have picnic areas where you can use a grill as well. Nice family park with a top rated coaster and many other great attractions. While it's not Disney, and Disney has set the mark very high, the lines are better and the cost is cheaper.

We don't like parks like Six Flags much. Why, because mostly what others have pointed out. Still expensive and the lines still suck. Worse yet, there are less "Shows" then Disney as well. My DW doesn't do any of the rides at other parks (except for maybe a "Train" or Carousel) because they make her sick. Most of the rides at Disney are slow and she can enjoy them. At Six flags and Hershey Park (also near us) we have to pay upwards of $75 a person just to get in plus parking and my DW and I don't do most of the rides and there aren't the shows. So we pay to chaperone our kids.

This is it in a nutshell. I would happily fork over the additional cash if I felt that the experience justified those major, continual price increases.

ME TOO! That's why we still do go to Disney. It's still of Value, just not like it used to be.

My Mom laments that Disney was not cheap in the eighties, when we went every year. They had to save their money literally from the day we got back from one trip, in order to do the next trip. And that was only with MK, and later MK and EPCOT. So for us, we've always felt Disney was a perk to go to, and required financial discipline in order to go.

Apparently, you're one of the few that's cancelling, as no one else seems to be, and there aren't any "low times" any more.

Maybe I am the only one that has spoken up here in the forums and maybe I am a minority, but I am certainly not the only one. I am not cancelling all of them, just being more selective of it.

I'm beginning to think this is more about people getting their undies in a bunch because they can't afford the high end stuff.

Not getting my "Undies in a bunch" because I can't afford it. It's because I don't see the VALUE in it. At what point does one say enough is enough? When Gas shot up to over $4.00 a gallon, did you still take the "Superfluous" Trips or did you consolidate them? To spend money just because, to me, is more irresponsible then one who evaluates the value of it.

Point of this post is not to brag. It's to illustrate that I'm not complaining because I'm on the outside looking in. Rather, I'm on the inside saying, "This isn't as good of a deal as it used to be". The evidence just isn't there to support otherwise.

Amen (Please no religious debate)

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

If only WS wasn't becoming Fantasyland 2.0

Not necessary IMO. Will I be glad to see WS expansion, sure-but its currently awesome and F&W will be sensational again. The 5 min walk from BC is so great as well.