Sorry to bring up again, but does anyone feel like me? How do I get past this?

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by acepepper
She didn't say she "empathised" with suicide bombers, she said she "understood". And if you don't understand them, you're pretty thick. Example; you're family has been wiped out, the political system has failed you and there's no prospect of that changing. You've got nothing left to live for. What's to understand. There are plenty of examples of people throughout history who've been willing to give their lives for their cause, (The Minutemen spring to mind). You may not agree with the cause, but it doesn't take much imagination to understand it.

I don't think her family has been wiped out and the political system did not fail her (unless she chose not to vote, or her vote was not taken). And there is prospect of change. Tip O'Neill was right...all politics are local. Many people just place WAYYY too much emphasis on how a President can directly impact your life.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, will make me understand what would compel a person to strap themselves with explosives and blow up themselves and innocent people along with it because they don't agree with some political agenda. NOTHING. You cannot rationally, or morally explain it or justify it.

Missypie said what she said, and then reinforced what she said with her explanation. If she really feels that way she needs professional help.

 

[snarfer1]

Deleted

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by acepepper
Are you deliberately ignoring what's being said here, or have you really not got the intelligence to understand it? Saying that you understand peoples motivations does not mean that you agree with them. I don't agree that suicide bombing is the right way forward, but I do understand the motivation.

Really? What is their motivation? What are they hoping to accomplish? Does it sound rational to you? Does it sound reasoned? Does it sound logical? Just what is it about the way you think the makes you understand their motivation. Because frankly, I cannot understand such illogical actions.

 

[acepepper]

Originally posted by dmadman43
I don't think her family has been wiped out and the political system did not fail her (unless she chose not to vote, or her vote was not taken). And there is prospect of change. Tip O'Neill was right...all politics are local. Many people just place WAYYY too much emphasis on how a President can directly impact your life.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, will make me understand what would compel a person to strap themselves with explosives and blow up themselves and innocent people along with it because they don't agree with some political agenda. NOTHING. You cannot rationally, or morally explain it or justify it.

Missypie said what she said, and then reinforced what she said with her explanation. If she really feels that way she needs professional help.

Hopefully, you'll never be put in a situation where it seems that it's the only thing you can do to make a difference.

 

[snarfer1]

Originally posted by acepepper
Are you deliberately ignoring what's being said here, or have you really not got the intelligence to understand it? Saying that you understand peoples motivations does not mean that you agree with them. I don't agree that suicide bombing is the right way forward, but I do understand the motivation.

Ughh, Me Vote Bush. Me Near And It Thall, ugggghhh. Please teach me our sane and rational acepepper.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by bsnyder
Ted Bundy. What was his motivation? How would you understand him?

I've read several books about Ted Bundy. Some experts claim that he may have had an extra y chromosome. This extra chromosome makes males especially violent.

Of course we have to study serial killers, and violent offenders. There are several fields related to the issues involved. Surely you are aware of that!

 

[Kendra17]

Originally posted by dmadman43
Really? What is their motivation? What are they hoping to accomplish? Does it sound rational to you? Does it sound reasoned? Does it sound logical? Just what is it about the way you think the makes you understand their motivation. Because frankly, I cannot understand such illogical actions.

Neither can I understand. I tend to doubt it's the futility of the situation, though, that makes them do such things. . . otherwise they'd do it in private. It's the murder and mayhem they'll commit that is the motivation.

So did the poster that expressed understanding mean she understood suicidal feelings or mass murderous ones?

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by acepepper
Hopefully, you'll never be put in a situation where it seems that it's the only thing you can do to make a difference.

Please help me understand how blowing up yourself and innocents makes one feel they can make a difference. Because frankly, I've not seen any evidence that is has, anywhere. (Okay, maybe Spain..if that's what they wanted to do)

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by Kendra17
Neither can I understand. I tend to doubt it's the futility of the situation, though, that makes them do such things. . . otherwise they'd do it in private. It's the murder and mayhem they'll commit that is the motivation.

So did the poster that expressed understanding mean she understood suicidal feelings or mass murderous ones?

Is that true with the children who are suicide bombers? What about the children in Viet Nam who strapped bombs to their chests?

Do you guys always have to single out someone to pick on? What motivates you to do that?

 

[acepepper]

Originally posted by dmadman43
Please help me understand how blowing up yourself and innocents makes one feel they can make a difference. Because frankly, I've not seen any evidence that is has, anywhere. (Okay, maybe Spain..if that's what they wanted to do)

If you're fighting against an enemy that has overwhelming military superiority, which is killing your family, friends and countrymen with impunity, it's understandable that people will resort to desperate measures. I agree that on the whole, their actions are futile, but as I've said, I can still understand their motivations.

 

[snarfer1]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
Is that true with the children who are suicide bombers? What about the children in Viet Nam who strapped bombs to their chests?

Do you guys always have to single out someone to pick on? What motivates you to do that?

I can only speak for myself minniep. If you look at my first post I was very concerned about missy, and posted when she followed up. I then edited my post to reflect that.

However, acepepper has been the insulting, denigrating and attacking one (as is his m.o. - which I usually enjoy debating! - Not that either one of us will ever change the other)

But the statements that were made about understanding mass murderers thoughts, when any sane, civilized individual has to admit that there are always alternatives to death, required a reply from me. I'm sorry if to you (or anyone else) it seemed an attack (note I deleted my original reply to acepepper - to avoid attacking anyone personally).

Bottom line we see somethings differently. I see terrorists as insects that need extermination. Period.

-Tony

 

[snarfer1]

Originally posted by acepepper
If you're fighting against an enemy that has overwhelming military superiority, which is killing your family, friends and countrymen with impunity, it's understandable that people will resort to desperate measures. I agree that on the whole, their actions are futile, but as I've said, I can still understand their motivations.

Of course you can, you also believe their propagandist falsehoods and untruths.

-Tony

 

[wdwoldtimer]

Ok, good, I'll forget that ridiculous comparison between Minutemen and suicide bombers. I'll go further and ignore the silly notion that inflicting unintentional civilian casualties in war, is the same as strapping yourself with 50 lbs of plastic explosives embedded with nails, and ball bearings, walking onto a bus full of innocent people and blowing yourself up.

Yes, I know that to defeat an enemy such as this, you must not only kill them, you must take into account what motivates them and address it if possible. It can certainly be used to guide intelligence and eliminate the threat before it materializes. But that is not what the missiep said. She was not offering suggestions on how to defeat terrorism. She was not preaching alternative methods of waging the war on terror.

Kerry lost and she said, as a result, she now knows and appreciates how suicide bombers feel. There's a HUGE difference. It's a huge leap from saying you're disappointed in the outcome and powerless to effect the changes you wanted, to comparing your position and feelings with a suicide bomber.

Not only is that a very odd comparison to make with oneself, I'd argue that "political frustration" isn't all that motivates suicide bombers.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by snarfer1
I can only speak for myself minniep. If you look at my first post I was very concerned about missy, and posted when she followed up. I then edited my post to reflect that.

However, acepepper has been the insulting, denigrating and attacking one (as is his m.o. - which I usually enjoy debating! - Not that either one of us will ever change the other)

But the statements that were made about understanding mass murderers thoughts, when any sane, civilized individual has to admit that there are always alternatives to death, required a reply from me. I'm sorry if to you (or anyone else) it seemed an attack (note I deleted my original reply to acepepper - to avoid attacking anyone personally).

Bottom line we see somethings differently. I see terrorists as insects that need extermination. Period.

-Tony

Hey, is that you, Dolly? just joking, brother.

Do you think that maybe some people are reading more into the post in question? Sometimes people say things out of frustration, or in a sarcastic way. I do not feel that the statement was intended to be taken literally.

Hey shall we all pray? It seems to be the en vogue thing to do on here now?

No really, I just think that we should give her a break.

 

[Rokkitsci]

Originally posted by babar
I really feel very upset about this election. I don't mean that it wasn't fair, but I honestly felt that Bush needed to go. I felt it very strongly!!

How do I get past this? How can I feel I'm being spoken for or represented in this country? This is one of the worst days I can remember.....

Try to imagine what we did when Clinton won re-election in '96.

We were convinced that Clinton had won in 92 based on highly debatable terms, just as you are sure you should have won in 00.

We felt that Perot had cost us the election - after all he got 20% of the vote. You feel that Nader cost you the election even though he got only 2% in 00.

We felt that an unethical decision by Lawrence Welsh in raising the Iran/Contra indictments 3 days before the election cost Bush 41 the election.

We felt that Clinton was a totally unworthy president, but we fielded a weak candidate in Dole. You fielded a really unwinnable candidate in Kerry. Dole was head and shoulders above Kerry in all respects, but he was not good enough to unseat an incumbant president.

But, I will tell you one thing we did NOT do. We never turned against our country. We never supported our enemies. We never used foreign policy as a partisan weapon.

What you need to do is examine your agenda. You need to recognize that the far-left aganda of the modern democrat party is completely out of step with the majority of Americans. If you want to continue your radical pursuit of a hedonistic, socialist society you are going to continue to fail miserably.

You call us radical right wing - but in reality, we are right in the mainstream of traditional American values. You want to change America into something that America does not accept. You are either going to have to be more patient, or you are going to have to explain why we should change.

Otherwise, it is going to be a long couple of decades for you.

I hope you find your senses.

 

[snarfer1]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
Hey, is that you, Dolly? just joking, brother.

Do you think that maybe some people are reading more into the post in question? Sometimes people say things out of frustration, or in a sarcastic way. I do not feel that the statement was intended to be taken literally.

Hey shall we all pray? It seems to be the en vogue thing to do on here now?

No really, I just think that we should give her a break.

Gotta call you on this one MinniP.

Hey shall we all pray? It seems to be the en vogue thing to do on here now?

Is this fair, polite or understanding to those who take their religion seriously? Why should a religious individual even consider a same-sex marriage point of view, when their beliefs are ridiculed constantly. Understanding needs to be a two way street.

To be fair I personally found the remark very clever (on several levels no less). But it is no less offensive to true believers, than when a person who honestly believes homosexuality is a sin, lets a homesexual know of their beliefs.

Lets all play fair. (Except acepepper, who will never be happy, no matter how much compromise is made)

-Tony

 

[snarfer1]

Originally posted by Rokkitsci
Try to imagine what we did when Clinton won re-election in '96.

We were convinced that Clinton had won in 92 based on highly debatable terms, just as you are sure you should have won in 00.

We felt that Perot had cost us the election - after all he got 20% of the vote. You feel that Nader cost you the election even though he got only 2% in 00.

We felt that an unethical decision by Lawrence Welsh in raising the Iran/Contra indictments 3 days before the election cost Bush 41 the election.

We felt that Clinton was a totally unworthy president, but we fielded a weak candidate in Dole. You fielded a really unwinnable candidate in Kerry. Dole was head and shoulders above Kerry in all respects, but he was not good enough to unseat an incumbant president.

But, I will tell you one thing we did NOT do. We never turned against our country. We never supported our enemies. We never used foreign policy as a partisan weapon.

What you need to do is examine your agenda. You need to recognize that the far-left aganda of the modern democrat party is completely out of step with the majority of Americans. If you want to continue your radical pursuit of a hedonistic, socialist society you are going to continue to fail miserably.

You call us radical right wing - but in reality, we are right in the mainstream of traditional American values. You want to change America into something that America does not accept. You are either going to have to be more patient, or you are going to have to explain why we should change.

Otherwise, it is going to be a long couple of decades for you.

I hope you find your senses.

Very well said. Thank you!

-Tony

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by snarfer1
Gotta call you on this one MinniP.

Hey shall we all pray? It seems to be the en vogue thing to do on here now?

Is this fair, polite or understanding to those who take their religion seriously? Why should a religious individual even consider a same-sex marriage point of view, when their beliefs are ridiculed constantly. Understanding needs to be a two way street.

To be fair I personally found the remark very clever (on several levels no less). But it is no less offensive to true believers, than when a person who honestly believes homosexuality is a sin, lets a homesexual know of their beliefs.

Lets all play fair. (Except acepepper, who will never be happy, no matter how much compromise is made)

Tony, you have this habit of adding your own interpretation into what is being said. Sometimes it is good to lighten up. It is socially acceptable to joke about religion. This is not the dark ages. Why so serious and dour? The sky isn't falling, yet anyway?

I am not an athiest for your info, so in essence that means I am joking about myself too.

 

[babar]

hee haa hee hee, oh my, does anyone have a tissue?

Rokkitsci, thanks for the biggest laugh I've had in a while, and something to post on my fridge for friends and family to see...

excuse me while I worship the golden calf and then go out and play in my hedonistic society!


Ahhh republicans, always good for a smile at least.

 

[krissy3483]

Originally posted by missypie
That is what is so upsetting. This president invaded a nation that was not a threat to us..and the majority support him. What has this nation become? I'm so disappointed in my fellow Americans.

Without reading any further, I had to respond to this so I apologize if I repreat someone else's sentiment.
I believe 100% that there is information we will never know about Iraq...information that I honestly do not want to know...that led to Bush's decision. Bush won convincingly, and I think the next four years will be just fine, as long as the President is given the respect he deserves in his position.