Sorry to bring up again, but does anyone feel like me? How do I get past this?

[babar]

see, these are the people that vote---is that the intelligence level of all of them?

(of course not, but who knows about mikeymars! )

 

[jimmiej]

Why do you think I am dangerous because I understand someone else's emotions?

Because the "someone else" killed THOUSANDS of Americans! And they're willing to continue. What an awful thing to say...you should be ashamed!!!

 

[wdwoldtimer]

For someone to say that they feel so frustrated and powerless over the election results, that they now understand how suicide bombers must feel, is not much different than saying, "I'm so frustrated with all the minorities moving into my neighborhood, I can understand how Hitler or Milosevic felt."

Empathizing with suicide bombers, no matter how much you liked Kerry is pretty disturbing.

 

[babar]

Great speech by Kerry.

It's already time to start thinking what we can do next.....

 

[acepepper]

Originally posted by wdwoldtimer
For someone to say that they feel so frustrated and powerless over the election results, that they now understand how suicide bombers must feel, is not much different than saying, "I'm so frustrated with all the minorities moving into my neighborhood, I can understand how Hitler or Milosevic felt."

Empathizing with suicide bombers, no matter how much you liked Kerry is pretty disturbing.

She didn't say she "empathised" with suicide bombers, she said she "understood". And if you don't understand them, you're pretty thick. Example; you're family has been wiped out, the political system has failed you and there's no prospect of that changing. You've got nothing left to live for. What's to understand. There are plenty of examples of people throughout history who've been willing to give their lives for their cause, (The Minutemen spring to mind). You may not agree with the cause, but it doesn't take much imagination to understand it.

 

[babar]

somehow, I don't think they'll "understand" your intelligent post,
acepepper!! I'm sorry, they'll understand it, but you'll be wrong.

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by acepepper
She didn't say she "empathised" with suicide bombers, she said she "understood". And if you don't understand them, you're pretty thick. Example; you're family has been wiped out, the political system has failed you and there's no prospect of that changing. You've got nothing left to live for. What's to understand. There are plenty of examples of people throughout history who've been willing to give their lives for their cause, (The Minutemen spring to mind). You may not agree with the cause, but it doesn't take much imagination to understand it.

Give their lives for their cause, I'll agree with. But there aren't a lot of examples where people have also thought it justified to target innocent civilians to advance that cause. I know there are some historical examples, but not widespread like we're seeing now with the Islamofacist movement.

 

[snoopy]

Originally posted by babar
somehow, I don't think they'll "understand" your intelligent post,
acepepper!! I'm sorry, they'll understand it, but you'll be wrong.

My crystal ball tells me you're on to something there babar.

 

[acepepper]

Originally posted by bsnyder
Give their lives for their cause, I'll agree with. But there aren't a lot of examples where people have also thought it justified to target innocent civilians to advance that cause. I know there are some historical examples, but not widespread like we're seeing now with the Islamofacist movement.

That's strange, I keep reading that the thousands of innocent civilians killed in Iraq are an unfortunate by product of a justified war. And don't say they're not being targeted. If you bomb a heavily populated civilian area, you KNOW you're going to kill more civilians than insurgents.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by jfulcer
Kerry was not a 'miracle pill' that when he got elected he'd be able to make everything all shiny and clean. For that matter, neither is Bush.

I think people need to remember this. I voted for Bush, but to be honest I'm not particularly fond of either one of them. I am hoping that in 2008 we will have 2 far better candidates to choose from because I think most people this year felt we were picking the lesser of two evils. For some the lesser was Kerry, for some it was Bush. I don't know many people, IRL, who were all that excited about either guy.

And another thing to remember is this, this nation has suffered horrendously before. Look at what people's daily lives were like during WW2. Look at the Great Depression. Look at the weeks after 9/11 when there were people literally terrfied to leave home.

Now look at your life. It's not that bad and barring some sort of natural disaster which neither Bush, nor Kerry could do anything about, chances are it will remain not so bad.

Neither one of these guys were some sort of superhero who was going to wave a magic wand and make all the bad stuff go away.

As I think SnoWhite and Minniepumpernickel both stated so well, if you feel that you need to do more to change the was this country is run, than do it! Join a cause, or a campaign or an activist group. Make your voice heard.

 

[wdwoldtimer]

Intelligent?

Let me explain what Webster says empathy means...

em·pa·thy

the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another

So sorry, she DID empathize with suicide bombers.

To compare suicide bombers to the Minutemen illustrates your warped view of reality. The Minutemen fought British soldiers, they did not strap themselves with explosives and blow up innocent British kids on their way to school.

You're right, my imagination cannot make the connection from being disappointed and frustrated at election results to wanting to blow up people. I don't think her family was wiped out yesterday and the political system didn't fail her.

 

[missypie]

Y'all are really freakin' me out. Doesn't understanding of someone's position or motivation help solve the problem? For example, lots of drug addicts commit terrible crimes to get money to buy more drugs. If you close your eyes to their motivation (drug addiction) and just say they are evil people, you may be half right, but the problem will never be solved. But if you recognize that addiction can be so extreme that it drives formerly rational people to commit terrible crimes, the problem can begin to be addressed (by fighting the drug problem). Considering WHY they committed their crime does not make you likely to commit the crime; it does not mean that you endorse the crime.

Everyone is motivated by something. Every crime is motivated by something. If you were a police detective and were working on a mysterious murder case, you would be trying to understand all the suspects' relationships with the victim and what would have motivated them. You would be trying to get into everyone's brain to try to understand whether something happened that led them to an extreme act.

There are people doing this right now with the terrorists. They try to figure out where they will strike next and who they will strike. They are trying to figure out who they are recruiting and whether there is any way to stop them. They understand that happy, fulfilled, suitably employed people don't tend to blow themselves up. They understand that hopeless, angry religious zealots may be lured into blowing themselves up. Getting a read on the emotions of someone who would kill others to make a political statement does not turn the person studying the terrorist INTO a terrorist.

Don't you wish someone would have understood how close to the edge Timothy McVeigh was BEFORE he acted? If he had been sitting around venting with his buddies and one of them (who was all talk and no action) had understood the depth of his venom and called authorities, lives would have been spared.

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by acepepper
That's strange, I keep reading that the thousands of innocent civilians killed in Iraq are an unfortunate by product of a justified war. And don't say they're not being targeted. If you bomb a heavily populated civilian area, you KNOW you're going to kill more civilians than insurgents.

More civilians? How do you know that? From your bogus study?

They aren't being targeted. The terrorists are. If you can't see the difference, then you're the one that's "thick".

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by missypie
Y'all are really freakin' me out. Doesn't understanding of someone's position or motivation help solve the problem? For example, lots of drug addicts commit terrible crimes to get money to buy more drugs. If you close your eyes to their motivation (drug addiction) and just say they are evil people, you may be half right, but the problem will never be solved. But if you recognize that addiction can be so extreme that it drives formerly rational people to commit terrible crimes, the problem can begin to be addressed (by fighting the drug problem). Considering WHY they committed their crime does not make you likely to commit the crime; it does not mean that you endorse the crime.

Everyone is motivated by something. Every crime is motivated by something. If you were a police detective and were working on a mysterious murder case, you would be trying to understand all the suspects' relationships with the victim and what would have motivated them. You would be trying to get into everyone's brain to try to understand whether something happened that led them to an extreme act.

There are people doing this right now with the terrorists. They try to figure out where they will strike next and who they will strike. They are trying to figure out who they are recruiting and whether there is any way to stop them. They understand that happy, fulfilled, suitably employed people don't tend to blow themselves up. They understand that hopeless, angry religious zealots may be lured into blowing themselves up. Getting a read on the emotions of someone who would kill others to make a political statement does not turn the person studying the terrorist INTO a terrorist.

Don't you wish someone would have understood how close to the edge Timothy McVeigh was BEFORE he acted? If he had been sitting around venting with his buddies and one of them (who was all talk and no action) had understood then depth of his venom and called authorities, lives would have been spared.

Ted Bundy. What was his motivation? How would you understand him?

 

[acepepper]

Originally posted by wdwoldtimer
To compare suicide bombers to the Minutemen illustrates your warped view of reality. The Minutemen fought British soldiers, they did not strap themselves with explosives and blow up innocent British kids on their way to school.

Ok, forget the Minutemen, what about firing misiles into heavily populated areas from jet fighters and helicopter gunships and killing innocent kids on their way to school? Is that ok if it's your side doing it?

 

[snarfer1]

Originally posted by acepepper
She didn't say she "empathised" with suicide bombers, she said she "understood". And if you don't understand them, you're pretty thick. Example; you're family has been wiped out, the political system has failed you and there's no prospect of that changing. You've got nothing left to live for. What's to understand. There are plenty of examples of people throughout history who've been willing to give their lives for their cause, (The Minutemen spring to mind). You may not agree with the cause, but it doesn't take much imagination to understand it.

There is a real problem with this drivel. From acepepper I expect it, from the others I'm a little suprised. 12 to 16 year olds are taught in Midras (spelling) from age 4 or 5 to hate and to dream to be a martyr. These children are being programed by cowards like the billionare Arafat (who's family lives in luxury in Paris) and clearly aren't so hopeless as to die for their cause. Stop making apologies for animals. They are not like us, and need to be stopped, contained, controlled or exterminated.

Much like repeat drunk drivers. People who kill and maim again and again. They have decided not to be a part of society by their actions, and when they become repeat offenders they need to be removed from society. Jail is an option, but I would love to see the death penality for repeat drunk drivers who murder. They choose to drink, they choose to drive, they choose to put us all at risk.


Like Clinton if you want to split words for your own piece of mind have at it. A person who can empathise or understand terrorists is not someone I (as in my own opinion) consider stable or a member of society in general.

-Tony

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by acepepper
Just be thankful you're not living in Fallujah. After this result, anyone living there should seriously start thinking about getting out, now.

Sorry, that's probably not going to make you feel any better.

The first sane thing you've said in a while. Yes, the innocents in Fallujah should think about getting out from under the terrorists that are wreaking havoc there. If the terrorists want to stay, then they should be ready to suffer the consequences.

 

[Wish I lived in Fl]

Know that there are many who voted like you for reasons like yours.

Then vow to stay involved in politics because when the country is so evenly split your input can make a difference. Write the letters, make the calls on the issues.

Maybe we have to hit bottom to go back up?

 

[acepepper]

Originally posted by snarfer1
There is a real problem with this drivel. From acepepper I expect it, from the others I'm a little suprised. 12 to 16 year olds are taught in Midras (spelling) from age 4 or 5 to hate and to dream to be a martyr. These children are being programed by cowards like the billionare Arafat (who's family lives in luxury in Paris) and clearly aren't so hopeless as to die for their cause. Stop making apologies for animals. They are not like us, and need to be stopped, contained, controlled or exterminated.

Much like repeat drunk drivers. People who kill and maim again and again. They have decided not to be a part of society by their actions, and when they become repeat offenders they need to be removed from society. Jail is an option, but I would love to see the death penality for repeat drunk drivers who murder. They choose to drink, they choose to drive, they choose to put us all at risk.


Like Clinton if you want to split words for your own piece of mind have at it. A person who can empathise or understand terrorists is not someone I (as in my own opinion) consider stable or a member of society in general.

-Tony

Are you deliberately ignoring what's being said here, or have you really not got the intelligence to understand it? Saying that you understand peoples motivations does not mean that you agree with them. I don't agree that suicide bombing is the right way forward, but I do understand the motivation.

 

[missypie]

Originally posted by bsnyder
Ted Bundy. What was his motivation? How would you understand him?

Not a clue! But I bet that the detectives working on his case were studying his victims like crazy and trying to find some link that would lead to a motive that would then open up a set of suspects.

Look at the Scott Peterson trial. The prosecutors are trying to get into his head and present the jury with a plausible motive. Last I heard, the motive was that Scott didn't want to be a father and be tied down to a family. Someone on the prosecution team thought about this situation and said "Aha! This is why!" I'm sure that the prosecutors have never attempted to kill their own wives and unborn babies, but yet they have to convince a jury that being tied down with a family could cause a man to kill. It's not what they're using to exonerate him; it's what they're using to try to convict him.