Something I noticed & just wondering thoughts

[anewvance]

On our trip a few weeks ago, we were waiting to go into Mickey's Philharmagic. We are in the handicap section because my ds is in his stroller as wheelchair. Behinds us comes a very large group, there were 3 in ECV's and another 18 or so walking.

We go to go into the theater and we go where the CM tells us to go. Then the group behind us comes in which is when all havoc starts. They were appaulled that they couldn't find seats all together, they were witching because "disney seriously needs to do something about this".

Long after the show started they are playing musical chairs, yelling at each other making sure everyone can see and has a seat. They even looked at me once to assume that I would move (I had dd with me, then ds in his stroller then a gap where another wheelchair could go and on the other side was dh with the other 2 kids), not sure where I was supposed to go?

So I am wondering if they tooted all over Disney like this expecting that they would all be able to stay together in every show or whatnot and if they couldn't it was Disney's fault.

I don't want to knock the 3 that needed the ECV's and they were allowed technically 6 per ECV to go with them. But still did it seem out of hand?

 

[pumpkinboy]

I can't imagine a party of 18 expecting to remain all together; that's just unrealistic even with an all able-bodied party, much less one using the fiarly limited accessble seating.

When we get a GAC for DS, they allow us a party as large as 6 to use the "benefits". If we have a party that size or larger, one or two of us will sit with DS while the rest are on their own, tho usually in the row in front of us. But then, DD is a big 3rd grader now and is fine separating the short distance when she's with Mom or some friends; with younger children, I think we'd keep together.

I wonder why the able bodies members of that party of 18 didn't just sit in the row in front of the accessible seating?

 

[mechurchlady]

The GAC is per person and 5 members of their party thus 3 GAC holders could take the 3 disabled persons and 15 other people. Why all the hassle? Because they are the type of people who do not belong to this and other Disney type boards. They have a set way things should be and do not plan for the worst.

There are only so many people per tea cup, boat, car, etc. so larger groups should expect to be split up in restaurants, shows, rides and transportation. You just ran into a bad lot of people who without the ECVs would have been griping and whining and trying to get away with mischief. They are everywhere in the world and no all are disabled. Just enjoy the show and ignore them.

 

[ireland_nicole]

They were completely out of line, but think of it this way- because of their unrealistic expectations, they were upset and disappointed a good deal of the time- maybe they'll use this as a reason not to return?
I'm glad you didn't let their rude behavior ruin your trip

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Ugh. Having worked Philhar I could just picture it. Hate to say it, but I would have been the mean CM who would have told them to sit down and shut up (In a polite way) and if they didn't would have called security. Guests are not to move around during the show due to safety concerns. I would have called security if their behavior continued.

With a group like that, standard procedure is to get the ECVs in the place, sit a couple of people with them as the seats permit, then send the rest of the group to the row in front of them. Sounds like the CM must have been fairly new to have not niped this in the bud.

 

[Mike Bartenhagen]

First of all a disclaimer I recently posted about our group of 12 going to WDW and staying togeather, which we try and do but never at an inconvience to all others at the park. If we go to a show usually Grandpa sits with Broc in the wheelchair section, my wife and I try to once in a while but grandpa usually sticks with Broc, and the rest sit with everyone else in the general seating. Ours is more of a situation where we may all want to go on the Peter Pan ride and want to wait as a group rather than some go in one line and some go in another.

Here is my opinion and I readily admit I am possibly asking for trouble by posting this. To me it seems as though there are people that go to WDW and because of the amount of walking, heat, etc. they use an ECV when generally this is not something they have at home and use in everyday life, basically they have been granted handicap status for a week at WDW. Some use this status in a respectable manner and others don't.

I will give you an example, last trip to WDW there were two ladies that looked like a mother and daughter, both were very much overweight and we saw them several times in the park that day and they would be heading full speed to the wheelchair lines, no regard for others in line. When they would stop they would jump off the EVCs and again full speed onto the ride. One time I saw them go around a mother that probably weighed all of 100 pounds soaking wet moving her child that weighed about as much as her from his chair to get him to the ride. I would suspect that most people would have waited for her, maybe given a smile letting her know it was no hurry but not these two right on by they went.

Again I am sure I am asking for trouble posting this but we use a wheelchair for my son everyday not just in WDW and are very humbled by the fact that places like WDW have made accomidations for him and at times I do feel bad even using them and don't on many occasions. I don't follow this forum daily but enought that I have seen many posts about people using an EVC at WDW for the first time and I guess it is really a pet peeve of mine when I see these people at WDW that basically deemed themselves handicap for a day and giving a bad name to those that are truely in need.



Mike

 

[ireland_nicole]

I understand your frustration; please keep in mind that there are many people with disabilities who do not use a wheelchair on a regular basis. I use an ECV for trips as long as or longer than a trip to walmart or target. Sometimes I can't walk at all. I have RA and Fibromyalgia along with chronic kidney and liver issues (I had multi organ failure when carrying my babies.) Although I am overweight- partly due to inactivity(sometimes the pain is excruciating),partly due to meds, etc... I have a real disability that is not just laziness or selfishness. My mom is a cancer survivor who has also had heart failure, an MI and Chrons- she also needs an ECV, but usually only at WDW or longer family trips.
I'm pretty sure my mom and I are not the women you are reffering to, as we also had our children in a special needs stroller (although they can walk, they both have multiple disabilities and significant stamina issues) and you would have seen all of us, not just two. Also, since we're both nurses, and have a modicum of social empathy, we would probably not run ahead of or over anyone
All I'm saying is, try to be sensitive to the invisible disabilities of others. All of us in the "disabled community" are in this boat together. And sometimes we judge without knowing the real circumstances of others.

 

[Lilogirl]

First of all a disclaimer I recently posted about our group of 12 going to WDW and staying togeather, which we try and do but never at an inconvience to all others at the park. If we go to a show usually Grandpa sits with Broc in the wheelchair section, my wife and I try to once in a while but grandpa usually sticks with Broc, and the rest sit with everyone else in the general seating. Ours is more of a situation where we may all want to go on the Peter Pan ride and want to wait as a group rather than some go in one line and some go in another.

Here is my opinion and I readily admit I am possibly asking for trouble by posting this. To me it seems as though there are people that go to WDW and because of the amount of walking, heat, etc. they use an ECV when generally this is not something they have at home and use in everyday life, basically they have been granted handicap status for a week at WDW. Some use this status in a respectable manner and others don't.

I will give you an example, last trip to WDW there were two ladies that looked like a mother and daughter, both were very much overweight and we saw them several times in the park that day and they would be heading full speed to the wheelchair lines, no regard for others in line. When they would stop they would jump off the EVCs and again full speed onto the ride. One time I saw them go around a mother that probably weighed all of 100 pounds soaking wet moving her child that weighed about as much as her from his chair to get him to the ride. I would suspect that most people would have waited for her, maybe given a smile letting her know it was no hurry but not these two right on by they went.

Again I am sure I am asking for trouble posting this but we use a wheelchair for my son everyday not just in WDW and are very humbled by the fact that places like WDW have made accomidations for him and at times I do feel bad even using them and don't on many occasions. I don't follow this forum daily but enought that I have seen many posts about people using an EVC at WDW for the first time and I guess it is really a pet peeve of mine when I see these people at WDW that basically deemed themselves handicap for a day and giving a bad name to those that are truely in need.



Mike

I think it is important to not make judgements and "general" statements about people not using an ECV in everyday life. As a general rule a day in Disney can mean walking 10 miles. Most people don't walk 10+ miles a day in everyday life. Some mobility issues are agravated by that much walking causing a need for the ECV.

As far as you wanting your entire party to be allowed into the wheelchair line, I think that is unfair. Space is limited (which may be why WDW limits the number of people allowed to join the person with the disability) in those lines.

 

[Mike Bartenhagen]

I think it is important to not make judgements and "general" statements about people not using an ECV in everyday life. As a general rule a day in Disney can mean walking 10 miles. Most people don't walk 10+ miles a day in everyday life. Some mobility issues are agravated by that much walking causing a need for the ECV.

As far as you wanting your entire party to be allowed into the wheelchair line, I think that is unfair. Space is limited (which may be why WDW limits the number of people allowed to join the person with the disability) in those lines.

When did I say that I thought my entire party of 12 should be allowed to go into the wheelchair line togeather....no where. I did ask how other handled a large group with one SN child but never said I expected we should all be able to enter the line togeather.

Also I said I realize some people need to use ECVs at Disney that don't at home but some seem to feel this gives them some type of special status that relieves them of the responsibility of commom courtesy.

Mike

 

[Talking Hands]

Common courtesy can truely go by the wayside at times for me. If my sugar is low and i don't realize it I become downright mean and nasty. Not something I want but something that happens. I do have some unawareness if my sugar is dropping slowly, unfortunately. Solution is usually to make me eat something and those who know me will do just that. If I am dropping fast I normally feel it and can remedy it myself. Also I have some issues with people being to close to me when I am moving in my PWC especially when it is dark. Part of autitstic tendencies that run in my family. Do I use my PWC all the time. Not at all. But with fibromyalgia, diabetic neuropathy, arthritis and neurofibromytosis I do need it for long outings. In fact, I just had to tell the other interpreters in our church that I cannot do any of the beach baptisms because walking on sand is too painful and lands me in bed for 2 days. Will go and do music before but can't participate in the actual baptism.

 

[mechurchlady]

To Mike:

The two fat ladies in ECVs were rude to the lady with the son in a chair. HOWEVER, race, religion, gender, abilities, disabilities, body type, colour, ethnicity, sexual orientation and all other clasifications of humans does not apply to rude people. People are rude no matter what classification you put on them. There are some people who are ill mannered, push, shove, hog seats, steal, cut in line, and otherwise are rude. I bet if you looked around you would see people of many walks of life doing rude things.

Are ECVs being abused? There will always be people who try to use the system to their advantage. For me I am FAT and have rotational illnesses and stuff a mile long. I can waddle pretty fast if I am going down hill or if there is something I want badly.

Some people use the ECV merely as a transport. I look at ECVs like a trip in the forest. A man can walk 6 miles so he walks 5 miles into the forest on a lovely hiking trail then sets for a while and has lunch. The man turns around and walks a mile then passes out from exhaustion far from the trail head. I DO NOT want to be like that man and not quite be able to get home.

Mike come a little closer so I can toast the marshmallows. They do not flame on this board but do warm just enough to toast marshmallows. I find this board a great way to learn.
hugs
Laurie

 

[dclfun]

I can understand what Mike is saying, only because I recently joined my SIL who was using an ECV for the second time in WDW. She detests using it and doesn't appear disabled, but has issues that affect her stamina greatly and there's no way she could go without that assistance. She doesn't use one anywhere in her own community. One morning we were headed toward Peter Pan which I cannot ride, however she was going to ride along with my niece, nephew, and their baby. A CM approached us asking who was going to ride, if my SIL could stand and take a few steps, then led their party to the entrance in front of all the waiting guests. My SIL and family was shocked and hadn't expected to enter the line in any way "special". Another person could've used this experience to set their expectations for the rest of the day...that they were going to go first, get in special lines, etc. Of course, my SIL travelling with me knew better. Some people take advantage, some people feel entitled, some people feel they're the only one on vacation and the rest of the world at WDW doesn't exist. This is the same everywhere though and unfortunately, as has been said, there are rude people everywhere. I don't think Mike meant to judge overweight people- he was just using the two ladies he ran into as an example. I can honestly say I've never seen so many people on ECV's as I did this last trip and I doubt all of them use ECV's at home even on a part-time basis, just like my SIL. WDW is huge and people have different needs there so it's not surprising to me that use has escalated dramatically. I had several conversations during wait times with people who have been in a w/c all their lives and they pretty much would concur with what Mike said without even going into body types or invisible disabilities.---Kathy

 

[docgrumpy]

First of all a disclaimer I recently posted about our group of 12 going to WDW and staying togeather, which we try and do but never at an inconvience to all others at the park. If we go to a show usually Grandpa sits with Broc in the wheelchair section, my wife and I try to once in a while but grandpa usually sticks with Broc, and the rest sit with everyone else in the general seating. Ours is more of a situation where we may all want to go on the Peter Pan ride and want to wait as a group rather than some go in one line and some go in another.

Here is my opinion and I readily admit I am possibly asking for trouble by posting this. To me it seems as though there are people that go to WDW and because of the amount of walking, heat, etc. they use an ECV when generally this is not something they have at home and use in everyday life, basically they have been granted handicap status for a week at WDW. Some use this status in a respectable manner and others don't.

I will give you an example, last trip to WDW there were two ladies that looked like a mother and daughter, both were very much overweight and we saw them several times in the park that day and they would be heading full speed to the wheelchair lines, no regard for others in line. When they would stop they would jump off the EVCs and again full speed onto the ride. One time I saw them go around a mother that probably weighed all of 100 pounds soaking wet moving her child that weighed about as much as her from his chair to get him to the ride. I would suspect that most people would have waited for her, maybe given a smile letting her know it was no hurry but not these two right on by they went.

Again I am sure I am asking for trouble posting this but we use a wheelchair for my son everyday not just in WDW and are very humbled by the fact that places like WDW have made accomidations for him and at times I do feel bad even using them and don't on many occasions. I don't follow this forum daily but enought that I have seen many posts about people using an EVC at WDW for the first time and I guess it is really a pet peeve of mine when I see these people at WDW that basically deemed themselves handicap for a day and giving a bad name to those that are truely in need.



Mike

Mike--

I have seen thin people, fat people, tall people, short people, etc who are downright rude and portray the behavior you describe. I have also seen thin people, fat people, tall people, short people, etc who go out of their way for others. Their weight had nothing to do with their behavior. Why would you make that connection?

BTW, I agree with most of what you say otherwise.

Be well.

Jeff

 

[SueM in MN]

Mike--

I have seen thin people, fat people, tall people, short people, etc who are downright rude and portray the behavior you describe. I have also seen thin people, fat people, tall people, short people, etc who go out of their way for others. Their weight had nothing to do with their behavior. Why would you make that connection?

BTW, I agree with most of what you say otherwise.

Be well.

Jeff

A few trips ago, my DH decided to test out the often posted idea that most people using ECVs are overweight. As he was waiting for DD and I to use the bathroom (which can sometimes take up to 30 minutes), he did some people watching to compare the number of people using ECVs who were overweight compared to those using ECVs who were not. He did this for our whole trip.
The results of his (admittedly, totally unscientific survey)?
On some of his people watching periods, he saw a few more overweight people using ECVs, but in general, he saw the same proportion of overweight people walking as he saw using ECVs.

And, agreeing with Jeff, rude people are rude and size has nothing to do with it. The rude people that the OP mentioned would have been rude no matter what size they were.

 

[My2Angels]

Maybe this would be remedied if WDW required a GAC to be able to use the special entrances. Then, people who were using their ECVs because they were unable to handle the long distances of walking (but could stand in a line)would not be able to access the handicapped lines. I would honestly have no problem with Disney requiring a doctor note or proof of handicap before giving GAC cards. You have to have a special decal on your car for parking, correct? I have 2 girls that have albinism. They are both legally blind, and extremely sun sensitive. When we went in Sept., you can imagine the sun and heat. We had on our GAC to be allowed shaded waited areas. For rides like Dumbo and Magic Carpets, we got into the handicap lines. So it would be quick and less time basking in the sun. For all the other rides, especially indoor ones, we used the regular lines like everyone else.

 

[SueM in MN]

Maybe this would be remedied if WDW required a GAC to be able to use the special entrances. Then, people who were using their ECVs because they were unable to handle the long distances of walking (but could stand in a line)would not be able to access the handicapped lines. I would honestly have no problem with Disney requiring a doctor note or proof of handicap before giving GAC cards. You have to have a special decal on your car for parking, correct?

In the US, the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) does not allow a doctor's note or any proof to be required in order to receive accommodations for needs related to disabilities.
A doctor does need to sign the application for a handicapped parking permit, but that is different because the handicapped parking spots are closer to the front and are limited in number - since they are closer, people desire them, even if they don't need them. Since they are limited in number, there needs to be some way (besides the honor system) to make sure they are there for people who need them.

The majority of attractions have Mainstream Queues, which are wheelchair/ECV accessible. So most attractions do not have a handicapped entrance.
If they are riding their ECV in lines, there is no need for a GAC. If the regular line is not wheelchair/ECV accessible, they should be routed to the accessible entrance/boarding area.
If they are not, they should first check the Guidebook for Guests with Disabilities to make sure they are using the correct entrance for that attraction (in many cases, people who are 'refused' entrance are using the entrance that the Guidebook says to use). If they are using what the Guidebook says is the correct entrance, first show the CM what the Guidebook says. If that doesn't solve the problem, ask to see the CM's supervisor.

 

[momejay]

Can't they just use fast pass too? I don't understand why Disney doesn't just give out fast pass cards to those that don't really need a GAC.
I have gotten so many ignorant, or intolerant people in the handicapped areas lately. (Those that are handicapped only at Disney World) I love those that have granny or "token person for this ride" in the chair & the 10 extras that stand around & stare at my son saying "what's wrong with him?" I try to keep them away with their, overflowing popcorn boxes & ice pops. He understands English just doesn't speak it & he is allergic to corn & has been known to steal an icepop before.
I think there should be no eating in alternative entrance lines. One piece of popcorn could cause serious problems for my son. I am sure there are some nut allergy kids & parents that would agree.
The large groups should be told only X number of people may sit with you at this attraction & that limit needs to be enforced.
It says right on the GAC that it isn't meant to make the line any shorter. It is meant to give you an alternative waiting area. You want a shorter line get a fast pass!
Sorry, this topic frustrates me because I don't want to complain about the wonderful services that are given to us, but I do want people to be more considerate & only use those services if they truly need them.

 

[livndisney]

Can't they just use fast pass too? I don't understand why Disney doesn't just give out fast pass cards to those that don't really need a GAC.
I have gotten so many ignorant, or intolerant people in the handicapped areas lately. (Those that are handicapped only at Disney World) I love those that have granny or "token person for this ride" in the chair & the 10 extras that stand around & stare at my son saying "what's wrong with him?" I try to keep them away with their, overflowing popcorn boxes & ice pops. He understands English just doesn't speak it & he is allergic to corn & has been known to steal an icepop before.
I think there should be no eating in alternative entrance lines. One piece of popcorn could cause serious problems for my son. I am sure there are some nut allergy kids & parents that would agree.
The large groups should be told only X number of people may sit with you at this attraction & that limit needs to be enforced.
It says right on the GAC that it isn't meant to make the line any shorter. It is meant to give you an alternative waiting area. You want a shorter line get a fast pass!
Sorry, this topic frustrates me because I don't want to complain about the wonderful services that are given to us, but I do want people to be more considerate & only use those services if they truly need them.

Not to hijack this thread:
But this brings up a good point. I clearly remember (not so long ago)CM's asking you to finish your drink, ice cream, popcorn whatever before you enter a line. In fact most lines have a garbage can at the entrance of the line. For those with serious air borne (and even contact) food allergies-eating in line presents a huge issue. I guess not eating in line is not longer a rule (or atleast not enforced).

When we travel with certain family members, this limits the attractions we can visit. Some lines are tight and enclosed and if someone starts eating an allergen, we have to leave (quickly). It terrifies me, how difficult it can be to get out of some of those lines.

 

[SueM in MN]

Not to hijack this thread:
But this brings up a good point. I clearly remember (not so long ago)CM's asking you to finish your drink, ice cream, popcorn whatever before you enter a line. In fact most lines have a garbage can at the entrance of the line. For those with serious air borne (and even contact) food allergies-eating in line presents a huge issue. I guess not eating in line is not longer a rule (or atleast not enforced).

When we travel with certain family members, this limits the attractions we can visit. Some lines are tight and enclosed and if someone starts eating an allergen, we have to leave (quickly). It terrifies me, how difficult it can be to get out of some of those lines.

We just got back and did see CMs asking people to finish drinks and food before entering a line. Some of the attractions didn't have a CM greeting people as the entered the line and I did see some people bringing food and drinks in if they were not specifically stopped by a CM.