Someone jumped from DD's dorm last night and died!

On the scene, not diagnostically. But with time, we can pretty much make a pretty good guess, and its a pretty educated guess.



Ah yes, more hyperbole. I can play. Are they addicted to the Ambien? Did they kill the neighbor to get it, or was it a handy tool that worked as well as a gun. This is important to the final determination, which medics can usually ascertain on scene.



Choosing to do drugs is stupid. That is a Darwineque event. However, in your situation, it was a depression induced suicide.



But the initial use was done with cognizant coherent thought.



Funny you raise this. I have degenerative joint disease.



Medical History. You see, your talking about scripts.



Ah see, you did it again. You jumped to a conclusion about me without all the information to demonize me and were wrong. Youre consistent. Funny thing is, youre essentially calling me heartless for doing this exact thing. Ironic dont you think?



As I have said previously, my opinion is based on data available. Like you, I have made a presumption here and there. Those presumptions are from scene experience. In addition, it is obvious you dont know what a medic does on a scene like this. Youre jumping to conclusions and are attempting to create situations demonize my stance as a unfeeling person. In each case, I have answered honestly. You seem to be trying awful hard to say I am a bad man. Know what... you can still say it. All I said is youre doing to me what you say I am doing to the victim of the article. You are making a conclusion with minimal information. The word for that still exists.

One thing ES is trained in is what the scene can tell you. Its like a non-technical CSI. When I did my training, some of the exercises were trying to deduce what happened by standing on the spot and viewing the surroundings, or, you can be in the room for 60 seconds and when you exit, they ask you questions.

In the end, drug induced psychosis usually begins with a choice to partake in something harmful voluntarily. Over time, the damage done by recreating in this fashion can create instability. In most cases, this is a slow process of killing oneself. If you wish to destroy yourself, that is your business and I have little sympathy for this.

I dont have to feel sorry for your choice. I do feel sorry for your family, friends, etc who you drag along with you. Harsh? yes. Im okay with that. In this response, you did exactly to me what I did to the victim. There is a word for that.

In my response I did to you what you did to the victim? I asked you questions to understand your perspective. I wasn't saying anything about you at all. Not. At. All.

As for the hypothetical Ambien situation the person has not abused drugs before. I stated using the roommate's or spouse's Ambien as a means of demonstrating they had easy access by virtue of living in the same house, no need to resort to guns, robbery. To be more clear, I was asking whether you felt a chronically depressed person who was not a substance abuser, yet chose to commit suicide by overdosing was an appropriate solution by Darwin's theory or something other.

Sorry, but I'm unable to understand nearly everything else you've written & can't even begin to try to respond intelligently.

I forgot to mention, I actually am quite familiar in excruciating detail w/ what first responders do in many, many cases involving death, auto accidents, fires, etc. I do have some opinions on what you've said regarding some of that, but since I'm not sure I understand much of what you've written there's no point in attempting any discussion about that.
 
In my response I did to you what you did to the victim? I asked you questions to understand your perspective. I wasn't saying anything about you at all. Not. At. All.

I already addressed this. You made a "but" statement that contradicts this quote. See previous posts.

As for the hypothetical Ambien situation the person has not abused drugs before. I stated using the roommate's or spouse's Ambien as a means of demonstrating they had easy access by virtue of living in the same house, no need to resort to guns, robbery. To be more clear, I was asking whether you felt a chronically depressed person who was not a substance abuser, yet chose to commit suicide by overdosing was an appropriate solution by Darwin's theory or something other.

So, in your example, the Ambien is a convenient tool, as a gun or a noose would be. Again, I have addressed this.

Sorry, but I'm unable to understand nearly everything else you've written & can't even begin to try to respond intelligently.

Mmmmkay.
 
So you think you can be 100% mentally healthy but abuse drugs to the point where you jump off a building?:rotfl:

Okay, whatever.

When most start the use of drugs, they are mentally healthy. If you dont think so, Okay, whatever....
 
When most start the use of drugs, they are mentally healthy. If you dont think so, Okay, whatever....

You're not even reading what people are posting. I'll post mine again so you can read it...
Sookie said:
"So you think you can be 100% mentally healthy but abuse drugs to the point where you jump off a building?

Okay, whatever."

I hope that my bolding helps you make more sense of this.
 
You're not even reading what people are posting. I'll post mine again so you can read it...


I hope that my bolding helps you make more sense of this.

You arent reading what I am saying. When the started the drugs, that wasnt the case. What happens later because of the drugs was because of "their cognizant choice" to begin with.

I hope you can read this without letting your issues with my opinion make you bang the keyboard.
 
This thread sure did take on a life of its own outside the original post.

Wondering if more details have been released?

Sorry OP that this happened at your daughters dorm.
 
I already addressed this. You made a "but" statement that contradicts this quote. See previous posts.



So, in your example, the Ambien is a convenient tool, as a gun or a noose would be. Again, I have addressed this.



Mmmmkay.

You're making the but something it's not. No insinuations, real or implied, were made or intended. You're most definitely free to disagree, but as the author I can tell you with 100-percent certainty this is so. There were no games being played or points scored on this side of the keyboard either. I didn't understand what was behind your initial comment & I asked. The choice of the word harsh wasn't meant to criticize you, just the most direct wording that came to mind.

As I previously said, I'm not able to cogently comprehend much else you've written, so not much point of discussing what I don't understand, particularly when questions are either mocked, dismissed as hyperbole & admitting a lack of understanding is derided with mmmkay.

I can say that I find your insistence that substance abuse most commonly begins when an individual is mentally healthy is completely incorrect. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
You're making the but something it's not. No insinuations, real or implied, were made or intended. You're most definitely free to disagree, but as the author I can tell you with 100-percent certainty this is so.

It may not have been your intent, but you composition of your response (below and bolded) surely doesnt seem to communicate that. In your composition, you used the but statement to imply I wasnt showing compassion to those you target, hence my response that you didnt like the tone of

I get what you're saying from your experience, but I just think it's hideous for the family to deal with, & probably pretty life-altering for witnesses/responders as well. Working with the court system I'm more familiar than I'd like to be in regard to substance abuse. I don't disagree that there's a high probability of substance involvement & suicidal intentions, but frequently both go along w/ mental illness.

I know my work has made me harder & more jaded in my thinking, but I've got some compassion for this circumstance, even if just for the family.
 
I am a faculty member at this university. It was NOT a student, nor anyone associated directly with the university. The dorm (err, "residence hall") where it happened is undergoing some renovation. The sidewalk is closed off (boxed in, like you see in cities). The scaffolding starts above the tunnel of the closed off sidewalk. One REALLY has to want to get to the scaffolding by climbing over barricades, up the sides of the tunnel and then onto the scaffold. This all happened about 5:45 to 6. The police and EMTs were staging and getting ready to talk the woman down when she turned, and according to witnesses, just fell/jumped off in what witnesses recall as a deliberate act.

The reason that so many students viewed the incident was that the woman jumped right next to the dining hall that serves several dorms in the area- all very large dorms (the dorm she was climbing is 28 stories, the other nearby dorms are all at least 15 stories). Many students were walking to/from dinner at the time, so many people were already outside. The fact that the street was blocked off and students had to go around rather than take their usual route also contributed to the situation. It wasn't as if everyone showed up just to see the incident. Most were already there. IT was also quite visible to many, many students from their windows.

That dorm has had several jump/fall incidents. There was the first one, mentioned by another poster, a second suicide in the mid 1990's, and this one. Another dorm across campus also had a death in 2001. Considering that the dorms house almost 7000 students per year on a 24K person campus, I would say that the rate of fatalities from falling from a dorm are relatively small- but very upsetting. I talked with a number of students who were witnesses. They are very shaken. For many of these young people, this is the first time they directly witnessed a very tragic death.

Regardless of why this individual climbed the scaffolding and jumped/fell, it is very tragic. If she jumped, it is so sad to think that ending her life seemed more valuable than living another day. If drugs/alcohol impaired her judgement, how sad that this was the behavior that resulted. However, we should remember that, no matter what possessed her to engage in the behavior she did, there is a family in mourning and a large group of young adults who will be impacted the rest of their lives.

Perhaps her death will not be in vain if others learn to speak up about their depression/mental illness rather than hurt/kill themselves, or recognize the dangers of drugs/alcohol and alter their lifestyle for the better.

Just my 2 cents worth....but remember, if a person gets cancer we send flowers, organize meals and send get well cards. If a person "gets" mental illness, we shun them, avoid them, and even shun their families. Cancer victims do not "choose" to go out and get cancer (even if they have lived "risky lives"). People with severe mental illness also do not choose their illness. They need the flowers and get well cards and church/friends/family support just as much as the cancer victim. This death magnifies SO magnifies this discrepancy.
 
It may not have been your intent, but you composition of your response (below and bolded) surely doesnt seem to communicate that. In your composition, you used the but statement to imply I wasnt showing compassion to those you target, hence my response that you didnt like the tone of

The sentence with the offensive but in it only mentions me. Period. I have already addressed the fact it wasn't my intent to imply or insinuate anything. You are of course free to read it how you wish & connote whatever intent or meaning you choose.
 
I am a faculty member at this university. It was NOT a student, nor anyone associated directly with the university. The dorm (err, "residence hall") where it happened is undergoing some renovation. The sidewalk is closed off (boxed in, like you see in cities). The scaffolding starts above the tunnel of the closed off sidewalk. One REALLY has to want to get to the scaffolding by climbing over barricades, up the sides of the tunnel and then onto the scaffold. This all happened about 5:45 to 6. The police and EMTs were staging and getting ready to talk the woman down when she turned, and according to witnesses, just fell/jumped off in what witnesses recall as a deliberate act.

The reason that so many students viewed the incident was that the woman jumped right next to the dining hall that serves several dorms in the area- all very large dorms (the dorm she was climbing is 28 stories, the other nearby dorms are all at least 15 stories). Many students were walking to/from dinner at the time, so many people were already outside. The fact that the street was blocked off and students had to go around rather than take their usual route also contributed to the situation. It wasn't as if everyone showed up just to see the incident. Most were already there. IT was also quite visible to many, many students from their windows.

That dorm has had several jump/fall incidents. There was the first one, mentioned by another poster, a second suicide in the mid 1990's, and this one. Another dorm across campus also had a death in 2001. Considering that the dorms house almost 7000 students per year on a 24K person campus, I would say that the rate of fatalities from falling from a dorm are relatively small- but very upsetting. I talked with a number of students who were witnesses. They are very shaken. For many of these young people, this is the first time they directly witnessed a very tragic death.

Regardless of why this individual climbed the scaffolding and jumped/fell, it is very tragic. If she jumped, it is so sad to think that ending her life seemed more valuable than living another day. If drugs/alcohol impaired her judgement, how sad that this was the behavior that resulted. However, we should remember that, no matter what possessed her to engage in the behavior she did, there is a family in mourning and a large group of young adults who will be impacted the rest of their lives.

Perhaps her death will not be in vain if others learn to speak up about their depression/mental illness rather than hurt/kill themselves, or recognize the dangers of drugs/alcohol and alter their lifestyle for the better.

Just my 2 cents worth....but remember, if a person gets cancer we send flowers, organize meals and send get well cards. If a person "gets" mental illness, we shun them, avoid them, and even shun their families. Cancer victims do not "choose" to go out and get cancer (even if they have lived "risky lives"). People with severe mental illness also do not choose their illness. They need the flowers and get well cards and church/friends/family support just as much as the cancer victim. This death magnifies SO magnifies this discrepancy.

Your last paragraph is so sadly needed. If people could step away from passing judgment on the mentally ill, shaming them & their families, the help & support could send out tiny ripples of change eventually leading to a positive tsunami in our society.
 
My company manages apartments in several states. At one site over the summer an employee of a roofing contractor went to the site and used a false reason to gain access to the roof. The man then jumped and died.

I have sympathy for those with mental illness and have watched my MIL deteriorate from it over the past 10 years. My sympathy ends with people who commit suicide that others have to watch and clean up.

My company has had to deal with OSHA, local and state departments along with our insurance companies due to this man's actions. We had nothing to do with him but because we had a tall building he decided to draw us into his problems.

I do feel sorry for his family who have to deal with it. Apparently this wasn't his first suicide attempt.
 

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