Someone interviewed for a job at my work AND (Update #64)

[Lisa loves Pooh]

OP--you need to be Switzerland. You need to be as neutral as possible without unjustly condemning her or falsely praising her unless there is real evidence that either will affect her job performance.

If you have no knowledge of her skills and qualifications, then you should state as such. It isn't your duty to sabotage her career opportunity just because you don't like her. What is concrete that validates your opinion to jeopardize her chances of hire?

You need to separate personal matters from business matters. In other words--if she were to sue you--what evidence do you have to back up your claims that are fact and not merely opinion?

 

[DisneyFan32WI]

I agree! It's not up to the OP to decide what this lady deserves or not and that is not what the CEO asked. He also didn't ask if the OP wanted to work with her or not. OP, I honestly think that you need to keep your mouth shut because it seems like your issues with this lady are personal, immature, and petty.

I'm speaking candidly to you all on this "venting and advice" thread. I would never say these things to the CEO. I come to the DIS where I can let my hair down, throw out a few vents, and hope that others have been in the same position and can provide advice. This is the one place where it should be safe to be human. I don't have to be the Mon-Fri professional today. I can be scared, intimidated, humble, and honest. A refreshing way that I can't be during the week.

I'm not looking for my every word to be dissected. I enjoy my new place of work where the environment is positive, and the people work together as a team. If I have to go back to working with someone who doesn't work well with others and is awkward to approach or speak with, it will make things difficult. I don't want to go backwards. I want to make a profound statement to the CEO without it sounding personal. That's all.

At the place of employment we were at together, this woman did the very bare minimum to get by. She would not support anyone in diffiicult situations, never wanted to be the bad one, and she let issues drag on that could've been resolved with a strong HR leadership ability. She had trouble with eye contact, conversation, etc. She clearly could not work with people.

I am going into a difficult situation soon that will require the assistance from HR. I have an employee who has exhausted her sick time benefits. She is requesting an extended leave of absence after coming back from her leave for only a week. I have been told that she is used to doing this and getting away with it. I need someone strong who will support me, the team, and the process moving forward.

I have 1 chance to get this right with my CEO. One chance.

 

[Bluestars]

At the place of employment we were at together, this woman did the very bare minimum to get by. She would not support anyone in diffiicult situations, never wanted to be the bad one, and she let issues drag on that could've been resolved with a strong HR leadership ability. She had trouble with eye contact, conversation, etc. She clearly could not work with people.

These are things I would want to know if I asked the opinion of someone who worked with a person I was interviewing for a position.

By doing the bare minimum, did she meet her job requirements for what she was hired to do? I have worked with people who would not go above and beyond what they were hired to do, but they were happy doing their job year after year. Some positions are fine for this type of person and some positions are not.

By not supporting anyone in difficult situations, was she asked to do something that was out of her field and might be something she felt unqualified to do? Was supporting people a requirement for her specific job? Was she incompetent in doing the job she was hired to do?

Were the issues that she let drag on things that required immediate decisions?

As a person responsible for hiring, I would want to know specifics.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

I'm speaking candidly to you all on this "venting and advice" thread. I would never say these things to the CEO. I come to the DIS where I can let my hair down, throw out a few vents, and hope that others have been in the same position and can provide advice. This is the one place where it should be safe to be human. I don't have to be the Mon-Fri professional today. I can be scared, intimidated, humble, and honest. A refreshing way that I can't be during the week. I'm not looking for my every word to be dissected. I enjoy my new place of work where the environment is positive, and the people work together as a team. If I have to go back to working with someone who doesn't work well with others and is awkward to approach or speak with, it will make things difficult. I don't want to go backwards. I want to make a profound statement to the CEO without it sounding personal. That's all. At the place of employment we were at together, this woman did the very bare minimum to get by. She would not support anyone in diffiicult situations, never wanted to be the bad one, and she let issues drag on that could've been resolved with a strong HR leadership ability. She had trouble with eye contact, conversation, etc. She clearly could not work with people. I am going into a difficult situation soon that will require the assistance from HR. I have an employee who has exhausted her sick time benefits. She is requesting an extended leave of absence after coming back from her leave for only a week. I have been told that she is used to doing this and getting away with it. I need someone strong who will support me, the team, and the process moving forward. I have 1 chance to get this right with my CEO. One chance.

I'm on my phone and so cannot post the hug emoticon, but trust your gut on this one! You were asked for your insights, and I'm sure you will share them tactfully and professionally. What you know about her, on a professional level, is I suspect exactly the kind of hands-on feedback most leaders seek; I cannot imagine the CEO's inquiry was idle curiosity, but rather he is seeking real-life feedback of the sort you possess. In my profession we call it "off sheet reference checking" and it's invaluable in any major hire or deal we undertake. Just keep it to what is true and work related, as I'm sure you were intending all along!

Good luck!

 

[MSLRAC]

I'm speaking candidly to you all on this "venting and advice" thread. I would never say these things to the CEO. I come to the DIS where I can let my hair down, throw out a few vents, and hope that others have been in the same position and can provide advice. This is the one place where it should be safe to be human. I don't have to be the Mon-Fri professional today. I can be scared, intimidated, humble, and honest. A refreshing way that I can't be during the week.

I'm not looking for my every word to be dissected. I enjoy my new place of work where the environment is positive, and the people work together as a team. If I have to go back to working with someone who doesn't work well with others and is awkward to approach or speak with, it will make things difficult. I don't want to go backwards. I want to make a profound statement to the CEO without it sounding personal. That's all.

At the place of employment we were at together, this woman did the very bare minimum to get by. She would not support anyone in diffiicult situations, never wanted to be the bad one, and she let issues drag on that could've been resolved with a strong HR leadership ability. She had trouble with eye contact, conversation, etc. She clearly could not work with people.

I am going into a difficult situation soon that will require the assistance from HR. I have an employee who has exhausted her sick time benefits. She is requesting an extended leave of absence after coming back from her leave for only a week. I have been told that she is used to doing this and getting away with it. I need someone strong who will support me, the team, and the process moving forward.

I have 1 chance to get this right with my CEO. One chance.

As a person in the position to hire and fire for my department, I would appreciate you telling me the part that I bolded. Your original post sounded catty and petty and I don't have time to play that game. But if one of my valued team members said this person does the bare minimum to get by, they allow things to drag on, they have problems with basic communication, they lacked the leadership required to do their job, and they were difficult to work with because of all of this then I would listen.

So keep it factual and don't make it about you.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I'm speaking candidly to you all on this "venting and advice" thread. I would never say these things to the CEO. I come to the DIS where I can let my hair down, throw out a few vents, and hope that others have been in the same position and can provide advice. This is the one place where it should be safe to be human. I don't have to be the Mon-Fri professional today. I can be scared, intimidated, humble, and honest. A refreshing way that I can't be during the week.

I'm not looking for my every word to be dissected. I enjoy my new place of work where the environment is positive, and the people work together as a team. If I have to go back to working with someone who doesn't work well with others and is awkward to approach or speak with, it will make things difficult. I don't want to go backwards. I want to make a profound statement to the CEO without it sounding personal. That's all.

At the place of employment we were at together, this woman did the very bare minimum to get by. She would not support anyone in diffiicult situations, never wanted to be the bad one, and she let issues drag on that could've been resolved with a strong HR leadership ability. She had trouble with eye contact, conversation, etc. She clearly could not work with people.

I am going into a difficult situation soon that will require the assistance from HR. I have an employee who has exhausted her sick time benefits. She is requesting an extended leave of absence after coming back from her leave for only a week. I have been told that she is used to doing this and getting away with it. I need someone strong who will support me, the team, and the process moving forward.

I have 1 chance to get this right with my CEO. One chance.

It does sound like she's difficult to work with. If the CEO asks for your opinion, I think you need to express what you've said here, but use details and specifics. If you say, "She's difficult to work with," it sounds personal. If you give concrete examples, it will sound more objective.

I also think you should give the good and the bad about this woman. You don't want to go in with solely negative comments. There must be one good thing you can think of, even if it's just a fact. For example, "She does have a lot of experience in HR. She's handled a variety of HR issues." That's factual, non-negative information that you can start with. You could go on to say, "However, when I worked with her previously, there were some issues that concerned me. For example, there was one situation where..." Be sure to go into specifics. Be factual. What was the issue and how did she respond to it? What was the result? Try to keep your emotions out of it.

If you truly have concerns about this woman's job performance, you should share them with the CEO. But you need to keep your feelings and emotions out of it. Again, stick to the facts. Don't be completely negative. After that, it's up to the CEO to make a decision.

 

[ilovemk76]

I can't stand her. I knew her from a previous job, and now she has applied for the HR Director position at my place! She interviewed on Friday, and my CEO e-mailed me asking if I knew her because of the same place we were at previously. I would be considered equal to her because of my position.

I truly dislike her and I'm not sure how to say it to the CEO. I know the CEO had a lot of interviews, and he is exhausted with it all now. The e-mail said he had a good conversation with her and she probably could do the job well.

WHAT DO I DO? I have only been in my new position for a short time so I don't want to screw this up. I don't want to sound unprofessional, but I would be extremely unhappy if she got the job.
Here is the problem: The lady is just plain weird. She also avoids confrontation and is very unsupportive. So, there is nothing extremely WRONG with her, other than the things I just mentioned. How do I tell the CEO that he shouldn't hire her without telling him what to do?

Your reasons are silly, so you do not tell the CEO that he should not hire her.

Please don't spin this around on me, Art. I can promise you I'm not the issue here. I need real, solid advice I can take away from this thread. I don't need it to go awry like so many threads do here.

And to answer your question, I think she would tell the CEO that we didn't see eye to eye on situations. The problem here is that the 2 of us would essentially be in the same exact working environment as before. I would need her support in key HR issues. She would in turn, provide no support. She is very awkward to speak with.

I guess what I'm looking for are a few key choice words that I can use with my CEO tomorrow without making a big deal out of it. I don't think she would be a good fit for the company. I don't want to work with her again. She doesn't deserve a new opportunity with this high of a salary.

The CEO values my opinion as I am a key leader in the organization.

I don't want to make this seem like petty high school drama issues. She is in her high 50's, and I'm 40.

All I see is "I do not want, I do not like I I I " How petty to state that she does not deserve this high of a salary. You are acting like a child. Grow-up and learn to work with her.

Thank you to the previous posters. This is exactly what I'm looking for. I was trying to find a way to word what I was thinking without using my emotions. I wanted to come up with a line or two that I could recite when I see him in the morning.

This is helping my wheels turn.

There is not way to say what you want, so say nothing.

I'm speaking candidly to you all on this "venting and advice" thread. I would never say these things to the CEO. I come to the DIS where I can let my hair down, throw out a few vents, and hope that others have been in the same position and can provide advice. This is the one place where it should be safe to be human. I don't have to be the Mon-Fri professional today. I can be scared, intimidated, humble, and honest. A refreshing way that I can't be during the week.

I'm not looking for my every word to be dissected. I enjoy my new place of work where the environment is positive, and the people work together as a team. If I have to go back to working with someone who doesn't work well with others and is awkward to approach or speak with, it will make things difficult. I don't want to go backwards. I want to make a profound statement to the CEO without it sounding personal. That's all.

At the place of employment we were at together, this woman did the very bare minimum to get by. She would not support anyone in diffiicult situations, never wanted to be the bad one, and she let issues drag on that could've been resolved with a strong HR leadership ability. She had trouble with eye contact, conversation, etc. She clearly could not work with people.

I am going into a difficult situation soon that will require the assistance from HR. I have an employee who has exhausted her sick time benefits. She is requesting an extended leave of absence after coming back from her leave for only a week. I have been told that she is used to doing this and getting away with it. I need someone strong who will support me, the team, and the process moving forward.

I have 1 chance to get this right with my CEO. One chance.

I think your CEO may see what you plan to do as petty and look at you different in the end.

Put on your big girl panties, say you worked with her in different departments and then walk away. If she is such a horrible co-worker, it will show up quickly and then the CEO will take care of this.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

I'm speaking candidly to you all on this "venting and advice" thread. I would never say these things to the CEO. I come to the DIS where I can let my hair down, throw out a few vents, and hope that others have been in the same position and can provide advice. This is the one place where it should be safe to be human. I don't have to be the Mon-Fri professional today. I can be scared, intimidated, humble, and honest. A refreshing way that I can't be during the week.

I'm not looking for my every word to be dissected. I enjoy my new place of work where the environment is positive, and the people work together as a team. If I have to go back to working with someone who doesn't work well with others and is awkward to approach or speak with, it will make things difficult. I don't want to go backwards. I want to make a profound statement to the CEO without it sounding personal. That's all.

At the place of employment we were at together, this woman did the very bare minimum to get by. She would not support anyone in diffiicult situations, never wanted to be the bad one, and she let issues drag on that could've been resolved with a strong HR leadership ability. She had trouble with eye contact, conversation, etc. She clearly could not work with people.

I am going into a difficult situation soon that will require the assistance from HR. I have an employee who has exhausted her sick time benefits. She is requesting an extended leave of absence after coming back from her leave for only a week. I have been told that she is used to doing this and getting away with it. I need someone strong who will support me, the team, and the process moving forward.

I have 1 chance to get this right with my CEO. One chance.

I would tell your CEO exactly what you told us (omitting the "she's weird" etc.).

If she's not a good fit your CEO needs to know and there is nothing wrong with being honest.

 

[disykat]

Your reasons are silly, so you do not tell the CEO that he should not hire her.



All I see is "I do not want, I do not like I I I " How petty to state that she does not deserve this high of a salary. You are acting like a child. Grow-up and learn to work with her.



There is not way to say what you want, so say nothing.




I think your CEO may see what you plan to do as petty and look at you different in the end.

Put on your big girl panties, say you worked with her in different departments and then walk away. If she is such a horrible co-worker, it will show up quickly and then the CEO will take care of this.

I totally disagree. If you say nothing, you are endorsing her as a candidate. That will reflect poorly on you. They want your feedback. Don't refuse to give it. Just give it in a way that lets them know you will work with whomever they hire, but you cannot recommend her for the position.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

I do a lot of hiring in my position and if I asked you that question I would want examples. Do you have anything positive to say about this person?

I would also think about the issues you have with this person. Are they truly professional or personal? I have some workers who have issues with their co-workers and they think it is a professional issue when in reality it is a personal issue. So, try to step back and reflect on on the situations you experienced with this person. What was your role in the situation you had when you felt she wasn't supportive? Is she not a good fit for the company because you are there and you don't want to work with her?

 

[RitaZ.]

OP, you know what you have to do. I wouldn't put any of it in writing, do it face to face. Good luck.

 

[okeydokey]

Your reasons are silly, so you do not tell the CEO that he should not hire her.



All I see is "I do not want, I do not like I I I " How petty to state that she does not deserve this high of a salary. You are acting like a child. Grow-up and learn to work with her.



There is not way to say what you want, so say nothing.




I think your CEO may see what you plan to do as petty and look at you different in the end.

Put on your big girl panties, say you worked with her in different departments and then walk away. If she is such a horrible co-worker, it will show up quickly and then the CEO will take care of this.

This is terrible advise. When it doesn't work out and your boss has to go through the entire advertising/interviewing/hiring procedure again, he will remember that you could have helped him out by being truthful about this person's work and you did not.

I interview lots of people, and we look at basic knowledge and skills, but we look very closely at "fit". Will this person fit in and work well with the current team we have in place. Most people can be trained to do a job, but whether they will make the workplace a better or worse place is more important.

 

[Ceila]

It shocks me that anyone would suggest that a lack of willingness to deal with confrontation and not being approachable aren't major concerns for someone who is being considered for a leadership role in HR. Those are major job requirements!

OP, please ignore those who are calling you petty and a "mean girl." It's pretty obvious that you are both venting as well as looking for solid advice.

I would absolutely articulate the major concerns to the CEO, including those I mentioned above. Have specific, factual examples ready to share if asked.

 

[RitaZ.]

It shocks me that anyone would suggest that a lack of willingness to deal with confrontation and not being approachable aren't major concerns for someone who is being considered for a leadership role in HR. Those are major job requirements!

OP, please ignore those who are calling you petty and a "mean girl." It's pretty obvious that you are both venting as well as looking for solid advice.

I would absolutely articulate the major concerns to the CEO, including those I mentioned above. Have specific, factual examples ready to share if asked.

Exactly.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Please don't spin this around on me, Art. I can promise you I'm not the issue here. I need real, solid advice I can take away from this thread. I don't need it to go awry like so many threads do here.

And to answer your question, I think she would tell the CEO that we didn't see eye to eye on situations. The problem here is that the 2 of us would essentially be in the same exact working environment as before. I would need her support in key HR issues. She would in turn, provide no support. She is very awkward to speak with.

I guess what I'm looking for are a few key choice words that I can use with my CEO tomorrow without making a big deal out of it. I don't think she would be a good fit for the company. I don't want to work with her again. She doesn't deserve a new opportunity with this high of a salary.

The CEO values my opinion as I am a key leader in the organization.

I don't want to make this seem like petty high school drama issues. She is in her high 50's, and I'm 40.

How is your current company the exact same work environment as your previous employer? Exactly what position did she have at your old company? Was your position/level there exactly as it is now? How much actual knowledge do you have regarding not just her responsibilities, but also how much actual authority she was allowed?

Why not just answer the question you were asked (do you know her) and subsequent questions if/as they arise?

 

[LoserMomma]

OK, first, I think you're getting a lot of feedback from people who have never worked in a toxic environment. Your opinion on this is valuable and if the CEO didn't value your input, he/she wouldn't have asked you for feedback.

Having worked in a toxic environment with toxic people, I would absolutely do everything I could to protect a healthy environment from the contagion of what sounds like a passive aggressive individual. The trick is in how you do it...but do it you must, for the good of the company.

How about something like this:

"First, I want to thank you for valuing my opinion enough to seek out my feedback. I want you to do what you believe is best for the company. That being said, I have some concerns about Ms. X joining our team. I know you value collaboration, teamwork and a direct and transparent approach to addressing HR issues. In my experience, Ms. X has difficulty with working collaboratively with members of the management team to address issues in a timely manner. Further, her approach was circuitous rather than direct. This can cause frustration for direct mangers which impacts the company culture. Because I know how much you value us working together, I felt it important to express my reservations. However, please know that I have worked with her before and if you feel that she is the right fit, I will work with her again."

 

[tvguy]

It shocks me that anyone would suggest that a lack of willingness to deal with confrontation and not being approachable aren't major concerns for someone who is being considered for a leadership role in HR. Those are major job requirements!

.

It depends on the employer but HR in my experience, and my wife's experience HR has changed a lot. HR avoids confrontation these days, and good luck getting in to talk to HR. They hide behind closed doors and if you do corner them they tell you to look it up on the corporate website.
Open enrollment has been very interesting this year. HR directs you to the website, and website directs you to your local HR person. A lot of finger pointing the other way.

 

[sam_gordon]

It depends on the employer but HR in my experience, and my wife's experience HR has changed a lot. HR avoids confrontation these days, and good luck getting in to talk to HR. They hide behind closed doors and if you do corner them they tell you to look it up on the corporate website.
Open enrollment has been very interesting this year. HR directs you to the website, and website directs you to your local HR person. A lot of finger pointing the other way.

Huh. Our HR person works with people to try to find a solution, even when the proper answer is "talk to your supervisor".

Guess HR folks are different at different companies.

 

[ilovemk76]

I worked at a place with a horribly toxic guy. I changed jobs and then a few years later he showed up there too. I did nothing. He tried to get me fire. He was told to do his own job. I privately warned others about him. He tried stuff on my friends and it did not work. We let him back himself into a box. He is still there but the managers know what he is like. I just do my job and let him screw up. My friends and I know how to help him put the nails in his coffin.

Everything the OP posts is personal and not factual.

The CEO really wants to hear that she does not deserve the income. Talk about petty.

 

[DisneyFan32WI]

I worked at a place with a horribly toxic guy. I changed jobs and then a few years later he showed up there too. I did nothing. He tried to get me fire. He was told to do his own job. I privately warned others about him. He tried stuff on my friends and it did not work. We let him back himself into a box. He is still there but the managers know what he is like. I just do my job and let him screw up. My friends and I know how to help him put the nails in his coffin.

Everything the OP posts is personal and not factual.

The CEO really wants to hear that she does not deserve the income. Talk about petty.

Can you please stop talking about me this way? Your posts are very hurtful. It sounds like you turned a blind eye to your situation which is exactly what I'm hoping to avoid.

Nothing with this woman is personal. I would be very cordial if I saw her on the street. Every dealing I have had with her is work related, and it has never been about me. I have always been a director in both my previous role and this one. I basically came to this company as a lateral move. This woman would be doing exactly the same thing. Same positions, new company is what it boils down to. I couldn't get her to do anything at the last place which made everything so difficult. People became frustrated, decisions couldn't be made, nothing was happening, situations dragged on and on without any conclusions, etc.

I want to thank everyone for their advice, as I approach a very delicate and difficult conversation tomorrow with my CEO. He clearly values my opinion and I want to be sure he can come to me with anything in the future.

I never said I was going to tell the CEO that she doesn't deserve this salary. That is ME venting about someone who I've seen for YEARS come to work and do as very little as possible in her role. In fact, the work she has done has been detrimental. A good HR person can work with others, support the employees AND the organization, and know the facts. I have yet to see a spark of any of these attributes in her.