SOME CMs at Test Track ...

[mattsdragon]

You may be misunderstanding what I wrote or I was not clear. For that, I'm sorry and offer this clarification: I never said that wanting to be treated well is vengeful or "backstabby" and my response wasn't really targeted towards your story in particular. I was stating that the people who have a problem with a CM and don't say anything to that person are being backstabby and vengeful when the only action they take is to report them to someone else. It accomplishes nothing except possibly creating a punishment for the CM later. What could possibly be vengeful or backstabby about wanting nice treatment?

Not everyone is comfortable with that type of confrontation, and as someone who has been in customer service, both as a front line service associate, and as a manager, that is why there is a chain of command. Furthermore, it is not vengeful or backstabby at all, it is why this person has a supervisor. It maintains accountability. If they were rude once, they WILL be rude again, and better to nip that in the bud on the first incident. If this person just gets a smart alecky response from a guest, but no reprecussions, they aren't going to stop. If there is no consequence the behavior will not change.

directed back to the thread in general once again: I think everyone will have a much better time at WDW (and life in general) if they can just stop with the mindset that they're the customer and therefore the most important person in the room.

This is correct, too often people act like they are an island, and that attitude is horrible as well. However, they are paying customers just the same, and it is good business practice to have your customer treated in a respectful manner, if they aren't, you need to correct your employees so they do show the proper respect to the paying customers. . .otherwise, they won't pay again.

Someone earlier in the thread had mentioned that if a CM doesn't like the heat or the pressure (I'm paraphrasing), they shouldn't work at WDW at all. Well, isn't this a job that's hard to get? Having it implies that the CM wants it. When they're performing that job in a way you don't believe is correct, they probably don't want to be doing it that way. They probably, at the end of the day, feel as badly about it as you might.

This strikes me as very naive, which can be admirable, but is frequently counter-productive.

These are people with lives. They have families. They have interests, triumphs, and ultimately hardships. Everyone is a complicated ball of circumstance and a slave to their emotions. It's entirely possible that these people were having a bad day (or a few) and were emotionally compromised. For that reason, I wonder about approaching these types of employees with a response similar to "Hey, I didn't really appreciate that because ______. I know you wouldn't want to do that on purpose, so I thought you should know that it happened. How are you doing today?"

But where is the accountability for the rude CM then? You have to realize that with A LOT of people, this type of confrontation is looked at as milquetoast and enabling.

As I said, if some CM did that to me, I'd call them out on it immediatly, that is how I was taught to respond to the behavior of a bully, but some aren't used to responding that way. If they still feel as if the person's behavior needs to be addressed, then going to the supervisor is the appropriate way. That behavior isn't a single case, that type of behavior builds over a long period of time as the CM has been able to get away with things. If they aren't brought to the attention of management, then they will continue to escalate until something very bad happens.

The common criticism to this entire thought is likely that we spend so much money to go to WDW and therefore anything that is not perfect is unacceptable. Who cares what the CMs have going on in their personal lives? They're just there for me since I'm paying to be there. They should just suck it up and deal with it at home. When they're at work they're there for me!

Is that really an appropriate way to approach the world when we're the customer? I find it appalling, to be honest.

And you don't find the behavior of the CM appalling? Rude, insensitive, and bullish behavior needs to be addressed, otherwise, you embolden the abuser. If this person really has hopes and dreams and rainbows and fairies, well they better behave like their job matters to them, because it's hard to pay for dreams from the dole queue.

I'm not suggesting this is what caused the behaviors mentioned at TT, but isn't it possible that a CM just received terrible news and it has emotionally compromised them? Would they be delivering the best service under those circumstances? What if their supervisor won't let them go home and deal with it? What if they need to remain at work in order to pay the bills (like everyone else)? I'm not suggesting that it's acceptable. I'm not suggesting that a CM should be able to do and say whatever they want in the event of some personal problem.

What I AM suggesting is that we really shouldn't expect that these human beings to stop being human beings just because we're paying to visit WDW. They have lives and circumstances and to suggest that they need to forget everything when they're at work is absolutely stupid. It's a nice goal, but it's naive.

And allowing this type of behavior to go unchecked is even more naive. And making excuses for that sort of behavior is dangerous enabling. I know that "feeling" people want to believe that people really want to do right, but what I've seen in my life experience is the exact opposite. Many people do want to do right, many people struggle to make ends meet and don't want to get in trouble (these tend however, to be the ones who aren't rude to GUESTS), and some people are just jerks. Don't make excuses for them, if you want to be a victim, then be a victim, but don't call others vengeful bullies because they don't accept this type of behavior.

One of the appeals of WDW is how it lets you leave behind the problems of life for a little while. We shouldn't forget that when we're there we're interacting with a lot of people who aren't leaving behind the problems of life.

And, in the end of the day, WDW is a business, they provide a service (for a large amount of money) for their guests. It is not unreasonable to expect to be treated with respect and dignity. As a supervisor, I need to know when my people screw up, just as much as I need to know when they are doing well. Praise publicly, chastise privately, but at the same time, make sure the people that work for me know that regardless of what they are experiencing, I expect professionalism at all times, and will accept nothing below that.

I certainly wouldn't lower my standards, which is what you are suggesting.

 

[Blackbeltdisneygirl]

I can see why this made you feel better about putting your scared, possibly sick little girl on a ride or forcing your screaming nephew on it. There are worse things, right?

The CM was 100% right to refuse to start a ride when she saw a scared,sick and, in her opinion, possibly forced child on her ride. Any chance the supervisor might have just been appeasing you when he said she was wrong?

Now, for the rest of this thread. No, things don't have to be perfect. But a CM paid to work at WDW needs to be respectful at all times. There can be no lapses in that. If a CM rolled his eyes at me or was rude to me, you can be sure I would report it immediately if not for any other reason than a teachable moment. It is the supervisor's job to coach to how the interaction should have been handled, not mine.

Wow. I said my daughter was...wait for it...afraid she was going to get sick, and that she said she WANTED to go on it. How does that translate into me FORCING a child on a ride? Please read what was said. When you see me dragging my child onto a ride, then feel free to say I am forcing them to ride. It won't happen though. I've seen parents force children on rides, and I have not been one of them. I repeat: My daughter said she wanted to ride, and told the CM she wanted to ride, therefore she wanted to ride the ride, but was afraid she might get sick! I get very ill on Star Wars and EE, but I go on them b/c I want to be with my family. I probably don't look super happy about it, but no one has ever denied me the right to ride.

As for my nephew, again, he is NOT MY CHILD. That is not my area to say what should have been done. I would never tell someone how to parent their child. However, when my nephew didn't want to ride Mission Space, I did volunteer to sit outside with him. That is what I would have done with my daughter had she chosen to not ride the ride, but that is not what she chose. I even asked her roughly three times if she wanted to go on while we were waiting in the line.

How could it be the CM's opinion that she was forced on the ride if she walked of her own free will onto the ride, buckled herself, and then told the CM she WANTED to ride when the CM refused to start it? She was upset that we chose to leave the ride b/c she felt like it was her fault. As a loving parent, I assured her it was not her fault. She was not in the wrong.

What does it matter if they were trying to appease me? Isn't that what customer service is? However, it was not just the supervisor we spoke to. There were two other people we had to go through to get to the supervisor, and they were shocked at how she treated us. What matters is that they took care of it and allowed us back on the ride. If the supervisor was trying to appease me, but thought my daughter shouldn't ride, why would they allow her on the ride? I am not following your train of thought. The fact that she was removed from the ride in the 10-15 minutes it took us to get the supervisor, talk to him, and get back on the ride says the CM was not 100% right.

It doesn't matter what I say though. You aren't going to agree with me, and I am not going to agree with you, so we have to agree to disagree. I'm not going to fight about it. I don't come on the dis to argue with people. I am unsubscribing, so I won't see your retort. Peace out.

 

[Blackbeltdisneygirl]

Not everyone is comfortable with that type of confrontation, and as someone who has been in customer service, both as a front line service associate, and as a manager, that is why there is a chain of command. Furthermore, it is not vengeful or backstabby at all, it is why this person has a supervisor. It maintains accountability. If they were rude once, they WILL be rude again, and better to nip that in the bud on the first incident. If this person just gets a smart alecky response from a guest, but no reprecussions, they aren't going to stop. If there is no consequence the behavior will not change.


This is correct, too often people act like they are an island, and that attitude is horrible as well. However, they are paying customers just the same, and it is good business practice to have your customer treated in a respectful manner, if they aren't, you need to correct your employees so they do show the proper respect to the paying customers. . .otherwise, they won't pay again.

This strikes me as very naive, which can be admirable, but is frequently counter-productive.

But where is the accountability for the rude CM then? You have to realize that with A LOT of people, this type of confrontation is looked at as milquetoast and enabling.

As I said, if some CM did that to me, I'd call them out on it immediatly, that is how I was taught to respond to the behavior of a bully, but some aren't used to responding that way. If they still feel as if the person's behavior needs to be addressed, then going to the supervisor is the appropriate way. That behavior isn't a single case, that type of behavior builds over a long period of time as the CM has been able to get away with things. If they aren't brought to the attention of management, then they will continue to escalate until something very bad happens.


And you don't find the behavior of the CM appalling? Rude, insensitive, and bullish behavior needs to be addressed, otherwise, you embolden the abuser. If this person really has hopes and dreams and rainbows and fairies, well they better behave like their job matters to them, because it's hard to pay for dreams from the dole queue.


And allowing this type of behavior to go unchecked is even more naive. And making excuses for that sort of behavior is dangerous enabling. I know that "feeling" people want to believe that people really want to do right, but what I've seen in my life experience is the exact opposite. Many people do want to do right, many people struggle to make ends meet and don't want to get in trouble (these tend however, to be the ones who aren't rude to GUESTS), and some people are just jerks. Don't make excuses for them, if you want to be a victim, then be a victim, but don't call others vengeful bullies because they don't accept this type of behavior.


And, in the end of the day, WDW is a business, they provide a service (for a large amount of money) for their guests. It is not unreasonable to expect to be treated with respect and dignity. As a supervisor, I need to know when my people screw up, just as much as I need to know when they are doing well. Praise publicly, chastise privately, but at the same time, make sure the people that work for me know that regardless of what they are experiencing, I expect professionalism at all times, and will accept nothing below that.

I certainly wouldn't lower my standards, which is what you are suggesting.

Before I head out of this thread, I wanted to say that I enjoyed your post. You did a great job explaining your thoughts without bullying someone with your opinions.

Edit: I am no longer subscribed to this thread, but I did want to come back and rephrase what I wrote here b/c I worried that someone might think I meant that mattsdragon was a bully. That was not my intention, so I just wanted to make that clear b/c a lot of things on the Disboards are taken the wrong way. Mattsdragon had a very well thought out post that I agree with. What I mean by not bullying someone with opinions is that I like that though he has a different opinion than someone, he expressed himself without getting angry. I enjoyed his post very much.

 

[mattsdragon]

Before I head out of this thread, I wanted to say that I enjoyed your post. You did a great job explaining your thoughts without bullying someone with your opinions.

A difference in opinion doesn't mean we have to lose civility.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't agree with this notion that it's the responsibility of the public to correct or in a way train customer service people. (And yes, CM's are customer service people.) It's fine to point out to the CM that they are being rude if a person is comfortable doing so but it's not logical to be expected to do that. That is what supervisors are for, among other things.

 

[CentralFloridian99]

What's the guy's name? I want to avoid him next time I go.

 

[FortForever]

What's the guy's name? I want to avoid him next time I go.

Not one guy, THREE of them (2 males, 1 female) on TT. I would not have posted over one isolated incident.

I have no idea of their names. I plan to pay attention and go on TT later this month even though I don't like the ride. I will be on the lookout for all three of them and will post names here. If they are around, maybe they can answer for their obnoxious behavior.

 

[Kristine316]

What about speaking to these offenders instead of being backstabby and escalating things immediately to their supervisors?

"What you just said made me feel confused/embarrassed/whatever and I didn't like it. I know you didn't mean for that to happen. What's going on today?"

People will usually do the right thing if you give them a chance to. In my experience, people in a customer-facing role tend to accidentally give poor service when they focus too much on one aspect of their jobs instead of finding a nice balance between those aspects.

For example, a CM focusing too much on efficiency might come off as rude or confusing. They might believe they're doing good work by attempting to be efficient and don't realize it's making them act rude towards their customers. E-mailing a manager privately, after the fact, is not helpful at all. It's petty because, at its core, it's just revenge.

You can call it something else, but it's really just a cowardly attempt at revenge. Anyone who would claim that they're trying to help the CM deliver better service in the future is really just trying to make themselves feel better about it. If they were so focused on providing the CM feedback, they would provide it directly. Feedback that is direct, relevant, and timely is the most effective. What's a manager going to do about this? Reprimand them? That's your revenge. Coach them? Why should it be a manager? You were there. You knew how it made you feel. Why can't you provide that feedback?

As I said, people want to do good work and will usually do the right thing if given the chance.

EDIT: And I don't mean to be a jerk, but the thought of taking a photo of these people is one of the creepiest things I've ever read. Seriously, don't do that. You are a stranger and you shouldn't be photographing other people like that.

I disagree with much of what you wrote. "Backstabby".. "cowardly" is what you call people who speak to supervisors or corporate about a rude CM... really?

I say going above their head is exactly what a person should do when experiencing this type of behavior, and it is hardly cowardly or stabbing someone in the back... goodness. You make it sound like the CM is their buddy or something.. hardly. A CM is an employee who is suppose to give good customer service to people paying a big price to vacation at Disney.. simple as that.
That doesn't mean perfect customer service or that they won't get frustrated or make mistakes.. stuff like that happens but, rolling the eyes, smarting off.. calling names.. that is inexcusable.

 

[TLSnell1981]

What about speaking to these offenders instead of being backstabby and escalating things immediately to their supervisors?

.

If they are begin having rudely and dishing out attitude, why would I engage? It's not my job to reprimand Disney CMs.

 

[minnie mum]

Not everyone is comfortable with that type of confrontation, and as someone who has been in customer service, both as a front line service associate, and as a manager, that is why there is a chain of command. Furthermore, it is not vengeful or backstabby at all, it is why this person has a supervisor. It maintains accountability. If they were rude once, they WILL be rude again, and better to nip that in the bud on the first incident. If this person just gets a smart alecky response from a guest, but no reprecussions, they aren't going to stop. If there is no consequence the behavior will not change.
.

I haven't quoted your entire post, for the sake of brevity, but just wanted to say that I think your post is one of the most carefully thought out, reasoned and reasonable posts I have seen on this whole subject- on this thread or any of it's cousins. Well said Mattsdragon. Well done.

 

[kris4360]

I will forewarn everyone. When lining up for TT, 2 people per number. It will make everyone happy!

 

[FortForever]

I will forewarn everyone. When lining up for TT, 2 people per number. It will make everyone happy!

Not. There were three people on at least two of the numbers when I was there.

 

[IcedMudd]

We had a bad experience at TT. My daughter asked to design her own car and the cm was extremely rude to her. On our party it was myself andy two children. We asked if it would be a problem and were told that it would not before entering the line. It wouldn't have been so bad if the lady hadn't practically yelled at my six year old and had her on the verge of tears

 

[Bob NC]

I plan to pay attention and go on TT later this month even though I don't like the ride. I will be on the lookout for all three of them and will post names here. If they are around, maybe they can answer for their obnoxious behavior.

Why would you go on the ride again if you don't like it?

 

[ManyMinnie]

A difference in opinion doesn't mean we have to lose civility.

Nor does it mean someone is bullying.

 

[FortForever]

We had a bad experience at TT. My daughter asked to design her own car and the cm was extremely rude to her. On our party it was myself andy two children. We asked if it would be a problem and were told that it would not before entering the line. It wouldn't have been so bad if the lady hadn't practically yelled at my six year old and had her on the verge of tears

Why would you go on the ride again if you don't like it?

Because the rest of my family likes it and going on it with them is more fun than sitting outside waiting.

I don't hate the ride, I just don't think it's any more fun than driving my mini van.

 

[kalamazoo]

I have to say that TT is the only place that I have actually had severe words with a CM. She absolutely was not listening to a word I was saying - so single-minded. I ended up asking her to show me the way out because I was too frustrated after the exchange to enjoy the ride (been on it a million times any way). I had to repeat myself 3 times (telling her I wanted to leave) before it finally registered. I did talk to a manager - don't know if it did any good.

Anyway, it was only the one time and it was a few years ago. My kids will probably never forget it because in general we really try to downplay conflict, brush things off, and don't take offense too easily.

 

[doconeill]

I do have to say that (old) Test Track was the one queue I absolutely HATED. All the repetitive noises, constantly....banging...clanking...hammering...

It probably raised my blood pressure more than anything else on property. Which wouldn't be good for when I reached a CM if they were giving me grief

It was especially worse when there was a "maintenance issue" and you were stuck in there far longer than you should have been, even in the Fastpass queue.

I generally didn't have problems with the CMs though, except the last time we were there. We HAD Fastpasses, but of course, that was still like a 40 minute wait just to get to the "briefing rooms". We finally gave in our FPs, moved to our allotted waiting area to wait for the briefing rooms to open...and waited, and waited...and then they tell us there is a problem and we'd have to wait or we could leave.

Given that we had just turned in our FPs, I went back to the CM, and asked for the FPs back. But he wasn't going to give them to us...I forget what he said, but I maintained that I had just waited 40+ minutes WITH a Fastpass and then told I'd have to wait longer. He begrudgingly reached in the box and gave me 4 FPs back (this was prior to enforcement, so it didn't really matter which ones), but I think he wanted to avoid having to give out a ton of them by pretending it wasn't an issue...

But that's been the worst of it for me. Haven't seen the new queue yet.

 

[larryz]

Sounds to me like WDW has been importing workers from SFOG.

 

[JR864]

Went on Test Track on Monday with a buddy through the single rider line (standby was something like 50 minutes/Single rider had posted time of 10 minutes, but I don't think it took that long).

When we got to the design section with the screens (is this the only design area? i have no idea what I may have missed) there was an older gentleman CM shouting repeatedly that everyone needed to pull out their keys in order to activate the screens. Two ladies in front of me passed straight thru the area without stopping at a screen, and he yelled at them to return and do the design (is it mandatory?) He seemed exasperated, and there was a general feeling of barely controlled mayhem in the design area.

The ladies stated they didn't have to do the design portion before, but he was having none of it, and ordered them to return to the design area. I actually thought it was amusing -- his tone was that of forcing visitors to obey some rule for safety reasons, though applied to something that should be fun, right?

Hardly mattered though, since our keys never registered once we got to the cars, so we ended up seeing nothing for any of the passengers, so I'm not sure what I missed. Also, my buddy and I ended up in the same car even though we were single rider (I don't understand why more people don't go through this and take their chances).

I will say I was no big fan of the old test track, but I liked the new overlay. We both commented that the dark blues and light effects had more of an older "classic" EPCOT (all caps) look to them. I kinda wish they had enclosed the outside track and done something with lighting so it looked like you were traveling even faster than you are, maybe projecting views of futuristic cityscapes a la Horizons or World of Motion -- I think it would be a great effect and better than the current backstage parking view.

Interestingly, a lady in our car with her young boys really didn't like the new version, and thought they had slowed it down.