So few kids

[LSUmiss]

Sorry you're still all over the place from what your comments have been throughout the thread and past grievances you've aired. Enjoy your evening

that’s your opinion. Not fact. I have had the same complaint for years so it has not changed in this thread b/c you have interpreted it as such.

 

[figmentpopcorn]

sigh. We do & have. Not the point. Disney should still be kid-friendly also, but more & more, it’s not.

I’m sorry I must have misread, I thought you said that there are “TONS” of places adults can go and not many for families.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

that’s your opinion. Not fact. I have had the same complaint for years so it has not changed in this thread b/c you have interpreted it as such.

That's precisely my point.

 

[LSUmiss]

I’m sorry I must have misread, I thought you said that there are “TONS” of places adults can go and not many for families.

You are correct…I misspoke…not AS many.

 

[LSUmiss]

That's precisely my point.

So how is that all over the place? I really am out now. This reminds of why I stay off the community boards. I only happened to see this thread when I was looking at the the rumors thread I follow. Shoulda just ignored it .

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You kept changing what you were talking about when your complaint has been the same for years (which I already pointed out a few pages back). You didn't like Disney back then before the pandemic, you don't like Disney now. Before it was all the pre-planning now that is largely gone but you're still unhappy and complaining about Disney, you've talked about why you think less people with young kids are going blaming it on young people except your complaints about taking young ones existed pre-pandemic. When you complained about how people shouldn't go to Disney without kids because it's in your opinion technically a place built for kids (by doing so you've alienated posters who have kids but go to Disney without them), then brought up Walt, etc It just jumps around a lot even though the root is you've been dissatisfied with Disney for years.

Changes they make do not seem to appease you and when they don't make changes it does not seem to appease you. So is it Disney..or you? It's fair completely to be upset a place you enjoyed going hasn't worked for you for a long enough time, but if this has been your complaint for years time to find another place to vacation. Many posters over the years have given options for where they go and they seem to be happy to take their families to places out there.

 

[starlite_]

The reason I commented about Walt is because the parks evolve. The parks aren't what they are like when they opened, they weren't like what they were in the '80s, in the '90s they weren't like they were in the '80s, in the '00s they weren't what they were like in the '90s and so on. At some point you (general you) gotta let it go..sorry pun really not intended. I'm not saying you have to be actually happy about the evolution because there are plenty of points to be had about changes that one doesn't like but just don't view it through the lens of a well-respected but long-since passed away man who never was alive when WDW opened. Walt passed away almost 5 years before WDW opened.

This 100%. Whatever the original intention of Disneyland and WDW existing is irrelevant imo. It's been literally 50 years, the parks have grown so much and attract so many dif types of ppl. Folks cannot expect to go and demand it be like their local county fair or as if they are taking their kids to the playground at their community park. Disney Parks have soo many accommodations for ppl with little kids, from the stroller parking spaces which take so much real estate, to ride switcher for parents, to DAS for kids who cannot do lines, to Genie+. So many of this complains feel like folks want to be the only ones at the parks so that they don't have to make lines or deal with other ppl at all, specifically ppl without kids cause I guess they're easy targets. (Which fair, I too wish the parks where less crowded)

But like, who do folks think this ppl without kids going are? We ARE the kids from one or two decades ago! Personally I've been going to the parks at least once a year literally all my life, I'm an adult now and I still go because I love it. I hope my future kids enjoy the same love for them and I will gladly adapt and take them for as long as they want to. Are current kids supposed to stop loving and going when they hit 18? Or are folks wanting to make ever single ride kid friendly and be limited to themed merry-go-rounds? Like, how boring for those poor parents if so.

Ppl keep saying that the parks are for families, and yet seem to forget not every family has toddlers. If I go with my mom and siblings like we've been doing for years, do we stop being a family just because the kids (me and siblings) are grown now? Like I get it, taking toddlers to Disney must be overwhelming, but that's on each parent, not on every single other guest at the Parks.

 

[LSUmiss]

You kept changing what you were talking about when your complaint has been the same for years (which I already pointed out a few pages back). You didn't like Disney back then before the pandemic, you don't like Disney now. Before it was all the pre-planning now that is largely gone but you're still unhappy and complaining about Disney, you've talked about why you think less people with young kids are going blaming it on young people except your complaints about taking young ones existed pre-pandemic. When you complained about how people shouldn't go to Disney without kids because it's in your opinion technically a place built for kids (by doing so you've alienated posters who have kids but go to Disney without them), then brought up Walt, etc It just jumps around a lot even though the root is you've been dissatisfied with Disney for years.

Changes they make do not seem to appease you and when they don't make changes it does not seem to appease you. So is it Disney..or you? It's fair completely to be upset a place you enjoyed going hasn't worked for you for a long enough time, but if this has been your complaint for years time to find another place to vacation. Many posters over the years have given options for where they go and they seem to be happy to take their families to places out there.

All of that is still the same complaint which is that it’s difficult for ppl with young children. Then & now despite the changes. The changes have been very minor for the most part. However, best time we ever went was July 2020 when they first opened back up. No pre-planning necessary, but lines were short. Aaand, WE go very often (every other month about) SO for US, we have found a way to make it work & still enjoy it. BUT that doesn’t make it any less difficult for most ppl with young children who go less often. And the thread began as a discussion of why some ppl have noticed less kids in the parks lately & b/c I have experienced some of the difficulties I previously complained about, my OPINION is that the reason is related to those difficulties (among other things).

 

[FutureWorldShowcase]

I saw a lot of comments from people with kids who never entered the parks until 11am-noon because it was too difficult to corral everyone up. Just different touring styles.

Right. And then people with that touring style could pick FP+ times that worked best for THEM. That was my point. It was much more accommodating of whatever one's touring style might have been. The new program only realy works well one way. You must be up at 7:00am and you must be willing to be in the parks in the late afternoon/evening if you're going to get real use out of it.

With FP+ rerides with it were quite controversial with some posters saying it was easy others saying they couldn't. And because you couldn't select the same ride twice in your first 3 your re-ride was always dependent on what was available day of. I do think the stark difference is at least with that it was the luck of the draw, with LL (through Genie+ or ILL/IAS those rides that are included in that) cannot be booked period more than once as a restriction. I agree that's a huge shift and while practically speaking makes sense is a big turn off IMO. The inability to reride is an issue for all. However, consider from the other point of view, while you and your traveling party may not get to reride Dumbo to your heart's content it can make it possible for some other traveling party to experience Dumbo in the LL that may not have ever done so before under FP or FP+ and while that would/will irk me that rerides aren't possible in the spirit of bringing magic to others in a park that is about magic that has to stand for something I think

Yes, but I'm not talking about Flight of Passage or Rise of the Resistance, where a few parties riding repeatedly does have the potential to take access from others. I'm talking about the little kid rides, which will almost always have availability throughout the day, both under the current system and under the old system. The difference is under the current system it doesn't matter if Dumbo or it's a small world has a huge amount of availability, if you've done it you're done.

I've seen you asking other posters what their point is and I'm wondering what yours is. And I know tone doesn't come across on a message board, but I don't mean that to be antagonistic, just genuinely curious. Your previous posts seemed to be about the potential financial hardship the new system could pose to people without children, but the overall goal seems to have shifted to being to contradict people with children about our own experiences. I'm not going to try to tell you what I think it must be like as an adult without children in the parks, as I haven't visited any Disney park that way in many years. I'm sure there are nuances that I don't and can't understand because it's not my experience. Is everyone's situation the same? Of course not. But objectively costs have increased more for people with larger parties visiting the parks than single adults or couples without children. Regardless of what percentage of my income the cost increase may be, I'm going to think harder about whether something is worth it if I'm spending an extra $1000 vs. an extra $100. And yes, with G+ with a family of 4 plus ILL$ it can easily be an extra $1000 over a long trip. We're actually a family of 5, but the youngest is too young for a ticket, thankfully. And the groups for whom costs will have increased the most (read: larger families with kids) are least likely to benefit under the new system.

As to the actual topic of the post, I can't speak to whether there seem to be fewer kids in the parks these days, as I haven't been since before the pandemic. I can say we definitely saw plenty of kids in the WDW parks in our pre-pandemic trips. Disneyland seemed to be much more skewed to adults without children (we love it regardless). However, I do agree that their current operating procedures seem less kid-friendly. Waiting to see what it will actually feel like in practice.

 

[LSUmiss]

This 100%. Whatever the original intention of Disneyland and WDW existing is irrelevant imo. It's been literally 50 years, the parks have grown so much and attract so many dif types of ppl. Folks cannot expect to go and demand it be like their local county fair or as if they are taking their kids to the playground at their community park. Disney Parks have soo many accommodations for ppl with little kids, from the stroller parking spaces which take so much real estate, to ride switcher for parents, to DAS for kids who cannot do lines, to Genie+. So many of this complains feel like folks want to be the only ones at the parks so that they don't have to make lines or deal with other ppl at all, specifically ppl without kids cause I guess they're easy targets. (Which fair, I too wish the parks where less crowded)

But like, who do folks think this ppl without kids going are? We ARE the kids from one or two decades ago! Personally I've been going to the parks at least once a year literally all my life, I'm an adult now and I still go because I love it. I hope my future kids enjoy the same love for them and I will gladly adapt and take them for as long as they want to. Are current kids supposed to stop loving and going when they hit 18? Or are folks wanting to make ever single ride kid friendly and be limited to themed merry-go-rounds? Like, how boring for those poor parents if so.

Ppl keep saying that the parks are for families, and yet seem to forget not every family has toddlers. If I go with my mom and siblings like we've been doing for years, do we stop being a family just because the kids (me and siblings) are grown now? Like I get it, taking toddlers to Disney must be overwhelming, but that's on each parent, not on every single other guest at the Parks.

No one (including me) is saying adults going is the problem. We are saying that DISNEY as a company has made it harder & harder for ppl with young kids to go. And, that they don’t care b/c they are getting more money out of a new demographic.

 

[starlite_]

Yes, but I'm not talking about Flight of Passage or Rise of the Resistance, where a few parties riding repeatedly does have the potential to take access from others. I'm talking about the little kid rides, which will almost always have availability throughout the day, both under the current system and under the old system. The difference is under the current system it doesn't matter if Dumbo or it's a small world has a huge amount of availability, if you've done it you're done.

You bring up a great point. I've mentioned before that I kinda wish the limit was amount of times used instead of once per ride, that way someone could potentially use all their allocated LL to ride Dumbo 10 times just to say a number. If the issue they are trying to solve is having too many LL on E-ticket rides, maybe the solutions could be having a limit of 1 LL for those (as much as it would pain me cause I love going on Big Thunder at all hrs of the day) and free-for-all for the less popular ones? That could help families with little kids that can go on a limited amount of rides while still putting a cap on the super popular ones.

Then again it might be too confusing.

 

[starlite_]

No one (including me) is saying adults going is the problem. We are saying that DISNEY as a company has made it harder & harder for ppl with young kids to go. And, that they don’t care b/c they are getting more money out of a new demographic.

You know, I didn't want to engage with you but I'll bite. If you could make any changes you wanted to the Parks to make it easy and ideal for your family, what would they be?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Your previous posts seemed to be about the potential financial hardship the new system could pose to people without childre

Nah that part was because people made comments that it's automatically worse for those with kids. I had said (and have said in the past) it always depends because everyone's financial situation is different. People with kids at the parks since Genie+ debuted seem to be buying it. It's not up to anyone to categorize whom is more financially disadvantaged by simple characteristics. Objectively that $100 could mean a hell of a lot to someone and that $1,000 nadda. That was a prior discussion though that was hashed out I think enough to get back into it

Yes, but I'm not talking about Flight of Passage or Rise of the Resistance, where a few parties riding repeatedly does have the potential to take access from others. I'm talking about the little kid rides, which will almost always have availability throughout the day, both under the current system and under the old system. The difference is under the current system it doesn't matter if Dumbo or it's a small world has a huge amount of availability, if you've done it you're done

Well we can't assume what rides people enjoyed going on over and over though. That's why I said it sucks for everyone. I like tame rides so this affects me greatly. I may not even enjoy Rise because of my motion sickness but not getting a reride on Buzz without doing standby (which Buzz is one of my more liked rides) sucks, it was actually one of the rides we rerode the most. On the flipside it enables others to ride it. It was an attempt to look at it glass half full

I don't mean that to be antagonistic, just genuinely curious.

You're not coming across that way, no worries on that front.

It was much more accommodating of whatever one's touring style might have been.

I agree but it came with huge complaints about onsite vs offsite because of the availability differences with 60 days and 30 days. Many had difficulty getting slinky, FOP, Navi, etc. MK had an advantage without tiers. Many people complained they had no hope of getting rides because they were scooped up by onsite although even onsite people complained about short vs long trip. I don't think they've fixed the onsite advantage completely though. Our entire strategy from 2017 is useless for this May trip so I'm in the boat as others too.

As for my point the OP originally asked about an observation into not seeing as many kids the prior weekend in January. People's assumptions that their difficulties or annoyances or disappointment in Disney is why fewer kids are visiting Disney itself regardless of the time of year (which wasn't actually said in the OP and we have no proof of) in general are just assumptions. Other people on this thread and others threads see kids there and many of them. Ever since I joined the DIS people have been talking about people not going back to Disney and every year Disney proves people (which includes kids) still are coming and will throw down the cash to do so. The pandemic and Genie+ reactions here maybe be clouding that point. That is not to take away from personal feelings like I said, but rather when one projects that out. It'd be nice frankly for Disney to get knocked down a peg or two just not sure if that will happen any time soon to actually make an appreciative difference.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This 100%. Whatever the original intention of Disneyland and WDW existing is irrelevant imo. It's been literally 50 years, the parks have grown so much and attract so many dif types of ppl. Folks cannot expect to go and demand it be like their local county fair or as if they are taking their kids to the playground at their community park. Disney Parks have soo many accommodations for ppl with little kids, from the stroller parking spaces which take so much real estate, to ride switcher for parents, to DAS for kids who cannot do lines, to Genie+. So many of this complains feel like folks want to be the only ones at the parks so that they don't have to make lines or deal with other ppl at all, specifically ppl without kids cause I guess they're easy targets. (Which fair, I too wish the parks where less crowded)

But like, who do folks think this ppl without kids going are? We ARE the kids from one or two decades ago! Personally I've been going to the parks at least once a year literally all my life, I'm an adult now and I still go because I love it. I hope my future kids enjoy the same love for them and I will gladly adapt and take them for as long as they want to. Are current kids supposed to stop loving and going when they hit 18? Or are folks wanting to make ever single ride kid friendly and be limited to themed merry-go-rounds? Like, how boring for those poor parents if so.

Ppl keep saying that the parks are for families, and yet seem to forget not every family has toddlers. If I go with my mom and siblings like we've been doing for years, do we stop being a family just because the kids (me and siblings) are grown now? Like I get it, taking toddlers to Disney must be overwhelming, but that's on each parent, not on every single other guest at the Parks.

I know it's a circle of life right? It's almost like "get off my lawn" from some with the lawn being Disney parks and who is saying it is not older older people though still aimed at younger people.

I know one of the biggest complaints is too tame of rides being put in. Boat rides a common one, Navi got a lot of heat for that although a fair knock against its length since we know it was cut to he shorter than original. I like some thrill but I love me some tame. And you know the complaints come from people who have kids right? (Kidding because I have a feeling you know that). Families want reasons to shell out the money to go to Disney with their growing families instead of hopping over to Universal. Kids age, interests change even from 1 trip to the next, temperaments do as well (not so patient kid can ease up and the reverse true). It's a reason Disney responded with Guardians (which I won't be riding because of the ride vehicle spinning) and Tron. Even Slinky while still there for kids got thrill elements (slightly nervous about those hills ). Smugglers Run at DLR did affect me some with my motion sickness but I saw many kids in that one they loved the buttons lol. And Disney want to respond to the planning too much in advance complaints, it's more fair but who 8t has become more fair to is different than before understandable to be miffed about no longer feeling the better/more workable treatment.

IDK Disney gets flack for being too kiddy-oriented and they get flack for not but who complains is certainly families not just childless young urban professionals

I do think Disney just overcomplicates what they implement but that's not new this is just unfortunately its latest itteriation.

 

[Navychica]

When you think of the things still missing from the parks- character hugs, some shows, and parades (until next month)- they’re largely attractions that appeal to young children. I’m not sure it’s worth the money for my kids. Plus, mine are 4 and almost 2- I’d much prefer to wait until they don’t have to wear masks. It’s not good-bye forever, but it’s good-bye for now.

 

[KayKayJS]

nevermind lol… I’m too tired.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

so you’re saying that the only way my toddler should be in a line is if I’m carrying her? you made a comment about them walking in queues being unsafe, and strollers are unsafe.. so the only safe way is to carry her?

I’m gonna have to disagree with you there. My toddler is more than capable of walking through the queue (LM for example) - she’s just not as fast as some would like.

ETA: this is what I mean when I say it’s hard to take a toddler without being judged. Toddlers are not babies, they’re roughly 30lbs and fully capable of walking.

Of course she's capable (she's walking isn't she ) but yeah it's a safety thing in part. Kids bonk into things, they trip and fall, etc and none of that. That happens elsewhere but playgrounds for instance often have softer materials to absorb that and wider open spaces. There's a significant different in sizes too in terms of height with people in the queues. I won't even get into the gross factor of seeing kids suck on the chains, lick the metal (although I'm not saying that is at all related to your child it's a general comment) but there's also kids jumping on the chains swinging from them, most of the time that doesn't end poorly but I've seen some of the poles connecting the chains fall down and hit the kid because they were aggressive with playing with it.

I'm not judging you but you brought up the reactions of other guests and how you wished your toddler could just walk in the queues without anyone caring. I mentioned it's not usually a big deal to me if you allow others to pass and if they have an issue when you allow them to pass that's on them but that doesn't mean it's not a safety thing. You can do whatever you like, you're her parent, however you spoke of how others viewed it. I'd personally be more concerned about her falling with a bunch of obstacles (people, poles, chains, walls, twists and turns, and darkness, etc) than I would about you slowing down the line. I totally get part you're going for is an awe of the queue to point out all that it's in. Honestly adults can be worse there. The Peter Pan queue the special effects the adults spent more time there than the kids did. But there are other places that kids can roam more free and those are designed that way. None of what I said was you can't allow your child to walk on their own, the place you want to do it may be the issue.

Disney has nothing to do with this part, any queue of any place that has some of the same issues has this issue. And many places outside of queues present this issue too.

 

[LSUmiss]

You know, I didn't want to engage with you but I'll bite. If you could make any changes you wanted to the Parks to make it easy and ideal for your family, what would they be?

No changes would be necessary to make it ideal for us b/c we go so often that we have adapted. But the current complexity is just too much. I would argue it’s too much for anyone but especially for ppl with young children who need to take breaks/nap and/or need more flexibility. First thing I would get rid of is park reservations & go back to the ability to park hop all day. While no one loves this change, it’s particularly difficult when you have little kids & see a park is now packed, but your only option is to stick it out or go back to the room. Some other things that I think might work is a FP system more like refresh used to work for FP+. Genie plus doesn’t seem to have enough availability & is very complex. Transportation is also often a nightmare (in general) & again worse for little kids. We have solved that by driving to the parks. But that’s not an option for a lot of ppl. I think bringing back Minnie vans could alleviate this. To be fair, one of my biggest complaints pre-pandemic has been solved. The obnoxious lines for security used to be particularly difficult for young kids. Often with those lines, you would wear down their patience before you even entered the park! The new security screening system is 100 times better.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

you may want to revisit some of your past comments, You're wanting the old but before it was complaining about what was new (but is now old, like how FP+ worked). Maybe this is almost a "be careful what you wish for". to be fair a lot of people who complained with how FP+ was (the refresh, the pre-planning, etc) are now clamoring for that back, don't know what you had til it's gone perhaps??

 

[LSUmiss]

Of course she's capable (she's walking isn't she ) but yeah it's a safety thing in part. Kids bonk into things, they trip and fall, etc and none of that. That happens elsewhere but playgrounds for instance often have softer materials to absorb that and wider open spaces. There's a significant different in sizes too in terms of height with people in the queues. I won't even get into the gross factor of seeing kids suck on the chains, lick the metal (although I'm not saying that is at all related to your child it's a general comment) but there's also kids jumping on the chains swinging from them, most of the time that doesn't end poorly but I've seen some of the poles connecting the chains fall down and hit the kid because they were aggressive with playing with it.

I'm not judging you but you brought up the reactions of other guests and how you wished your toddler could just walk in the queues without anyone caring. I mentioned it's not usually a big deal to me if you allow others to pass and if they have an issue when you allow them to pass that's on them but that doesn't mean it's not a safety thing. You can do whatever you like, you're her parent, however you spoke of how others viewed it. I'd personally be more concerned about her falling with a bunch of obstacles (people, poles, chains, walls, twists and turns, and darkness, etc) than I would about you slowing down the line. I totally get part you're going for is an awe of the queue to point out all that it's in. Honestly adults can be worse there. The Peter Pan queue the special effects the adults spent more time there than the kids did. But there are other places that kids can roam more free and those are designed that way. None of what I said was you can't allow your child to walk on their own, the place you want to do it may be the issue.

Disney has nothing to do with this part, any queue of any place that has some of the same issues has this issue. And many places outside of queues present this issue too.

And that’s what most young kids will do when asked to wait in very long lines which is part of pp’s complaint. What could solve that is allowing strollers for longer. And most queues now can accommodate ECV so they can definitely accommodate strollers.