Smokers opinions only please

[NickyKnack]

Ok, some people being jerks (and the folks taking the room you need when they don't are jerks, and the ones who brag make me want to bring back public stocks as a method of punishment) doesn't mean we should respond by showing inconsiderate behavior of our own. The cliche about two wrongs not making a right is over used for a reason.

You don't expect anyone to barge in, but don't you think Disney should do more to make sure these rooms go to those who need them in the first place? And that it was wrong for those who didn't need them to take them?

I disagree....I don't find it hateful at all to expect someone to take care of their own health issues. No one takes care of mine.....half the time, I can't get a handicap stateroom because Disney changed the booking policy and has allowed anyone and everyone to book them. Not a darn thing I can do about it....and I've seen people BRAG that they did it, and they don't care.

If I can't get a room that suits my needs, then I either don't go, or I figure out another way to accomodate my limitations. I don't expect Disney, or anyone else to barge in on another cruiser just to see if they really needed that handicap room.

I take care of myself. And so should everyone else.

 

[NickyKnack]

So now that it is against the rules to smoke, do you still feel that those with allergies or asthma should not book the balcony because someone might break the no smoking rule? Or is the weight of personal responsibility now on the smoker to follow the rules?

I'm not trying to be angry about this, or fight. But when it was allowed for people to smoke on the balconies, smokers had every right to do so.

And again....if it were ME who had severe allergies, I wouldn't take a chance on booking a balcony. If I did take that chance, and had a smoker next to me who made me sick or bothered me, I certainly would not have been able to complain about it, because that was the chance I took.

Is it really that hard to understand the concept of personal responsibility?

 

[justmestace]

So now that it is against the rules to smoke, do you still feel that those with allergies or asthma should not book the balcony because someone might break the no smoking rule? Or is the weight of personal responsibility now on the smoker to follow the rules?

Now I think that people who don't smoke should feel safe in booking a balcony, and if someone is smoking out there against the rules, then the other person has every right to complain to guest services. I don't think it would be very smart to get into an argument with the offender....but now that the rule is in place, then yes, it should be reported and I expect (hope) that Disney will do something about it.

 

[NickyKnack]

I think the problem I run into is that I can honestly see how grabbing my shirt and pulling it over my nose and mouth might look like I'm being melodramatic. The shirt acts as a short term filter long enough for me to pass so that I can breathe. I don't actually start coughing when I breathe in cigarette smoke, but with every breath I take my lungs constrict and I have a harder time pulling in my next breath.

So no coughing, just the make shift t-shirt mask so I can see how someone might think I was being a word you can't use on the Dis - but I'm not. I try to ignore the ones who look mad and apologize to the ones who look like they're hurt. So I'm really glad you give people like me the benefit of the doubt. Thank you.

Honestly.... Most of the time you can tell the difference between a real cough, and a fake one from someone trying to be a jerk.

If someone's lungs are truly irritated enough to trigger a coughing fit from walking thru/near a DSA, then it's usually a much deeper cough in which you can tell due to the force difficulty in catching their breath.

If the irritation is such that it just tickles their throat/lungs enough to cause a small cough, then it could be a lighter cough without much force, and either doesn't last long as the person catches their breath... or it develops into the first type of deeper cough.

If the person is trying to be a jerk, it's either a nonstop stream of the "lighter" cough, or a very over-acted and overly dramatic version of a deep irritated cough. Sometimes it's also accompanied by comments or some other action to make sure you are aware of their disapproval of your smoking habit.


If it's a case where you aren't entirely sure, usually (at least in my case, and probably others as well), You will give the person the benefit of the doubt and assume the smoke honestly bugged them into a cough and not that they were being a jerk.

 

[justmestace]

Ok, some people being jerks (and the folks taking the room you need when they don't are jerks, and the ones who brag make me want to bring back public stocks as a method of punishment) doesn't mean we should respond by showing inconsiderate behavior of our own. The cliche about two wrongs not making a right is over used for a reason.

You don't expect anyone to barge in, but don't you think Disney should do more to make sure these rooms go to those who need them in the first place? And that it was wrong for those who didn't need them to take them?

I was pretty upset/sad that Disney changed the way the H/C rooms were booked. It used to be that you had to call to book one, and send in a medical form signed by your doctor. A lot of "cheaters" were held back by those stipulations.
But someone on here once said that the policy change had something to do with the ADA Guidelines....perhaps a deaf person can't make the phone call to reserve, for example. If that's the case, then I have no right to complain about how the bookings are done.
And even if it was just something to make reservations easier on Disney's end, I can't do anything about that either. It's their company, their rules. (Which I also posted on one of the other smoking threads...their company, their rules).

But to truly answer your question honestly....yes....I think it's wrong for someone to take those rooms away from someone with needs, just as it's wrong to park in a handicapped space if you don't need it. And yes, I do wish Disney would go back to the way they used to do it.
But I haven't started any hateful threads about it, nor written any letters....I learned the hard way that you can't fight Disney when I was injured onboard due to a crew member's carelessness and they lied and lied and lied to me. Long story that I'm not going into....but it comes down to, again, it's their company, they have the money, they have the lawyers.

I guess that's why it was nice for a bit to be able to gripe here and not have to get into any arguments with anyone.

 

[justmestace]

I think the problem I run into is that I can honestly see how grabbing my shirt and pulling it over my nose and mouth might look like I'm being melodramatic. The shirt acts as a short term filter long enough for me to pass so that I can breathe. I don't actually start coughing when I breathe in cigarette smoke, but with every breath I take my lungs constrict and I have a harder time pulling in my next breath.

So no coughing, just the make shift t-shirt mask so I can see how someone might think I was being a word you can't use on the Dis - but I'm not. I try to ignore the ones who look mad and apologize to the ones who look like they're hurt. So I'm really glad you give people like me the benefit of the doubt. Thank you.

I can definitely tell the difference, because my husband hates cigarette smoke, and I know when he's covering up to avoid it and moving through a smoking section quickly. That's not the kind that most of us smokers are used to, or referring to. You can definitely tell the ones who are just being jerks.
What really makes me laugh is when I'm in the adult area, by the adult pool, and TEENS walk by and act as if they're dying from the smoke. They aren't supposed to be there in the first place.

 

[MoranClan]

Ruin it for 20 balconies around? Seriously?

I do not think a smoke machine could produce that much smoke.

I will say this, the new DSA's will seem like a smoke machine.

 

[DCTooTall]

I think the problem I run into is that I can honestly see how grabbing my shirt and pulling it over my nose and mouth might look like I'm being melodramatic. The shirt acts as a short term filter long enough for me to pass so that I can breathe. I don't actually start coughing when I breathe in cigarette smoke, but with every breath I take my lungs constrict and I have a harder time pulling in my next breath.

So no coughing, just the make shift t-shirt mask so I can see how someone might think I was being a word you can't use on the Dis - but I'm not. I try to ignore the ones who look mad and apologize to the ones who look like they're hurt. So I'm really glad you give people like me the benefit of the doubt. Thank you.

I wouldn't worry about it if i were you. Again, most smokers know the difference between someone who is honestly bothered by or just trying to avoid the smoke. It's pretty easy to tell when you think about it, between the nature of how your trying to "protect yourself", body language, and speed. (If someone looks like they are trying to get out of the 'danger zone' quickly, it's a good bet they are honestly just trying to avoid the smoke). Smokers are also very aware of badly placed smoking areas, such as those directly next to a busy entry/exit or along a heavily traveled path [such as those at the Magic Kingdom in Frontierland or behind Sir Mickey's in Fantasyland].... and in those situations we understand that the non smoker is being inconvenienced just as much as the smoker is.


9 times out of 10 the person trying to be a jerk (which I'm using just because it's a DIS-friendly term close to what I really want to say) will telegraph their jerk-ish intentions. It could be comments, looks, body language, over-acting.... or honestly, sometimes just going out of their way to go by someone in a posted smoking area where they can make their feelings on the matter known.

 

[NickyKnack]

Ok, for what it's worth I've actually written articles for our college paper about why taking handicap accommodations that you don't need is straight up wrong. so I'm right there with you on this.

I think the problem came in the way what you wrote was perceived by me and possibly others. There is a big difference between not caring about the human being on the balcony next to you who has needs, and is asking for a compromise that works for everyone and someone who does. From what you said, you always checked to see if there was someone next to you and you were willing to work out that compromise.

I don't think someone who smokes should be able to tell someone with Asthma they don't care about their needs or feelings and suck it up and get an inside cabin. But I also don't think that a non smoker should be telling a smoker they can NEVER smoke on their balcony. I'm not crazy for the rule as it stands, I don't like that you'r pleasure got taken away. I WANT those who are sensitive to their neighbors and willing to work something out to be able to smoke. I just wish the jerk non smokers who have to be all up in telling other people how to live their lives, and the smokers who can't seem to find it in them to care about other people hadn't ruined it for smokers in general and for those who are now going to be stuck on Deck 9 with the overflow.

As for not speaking out because Disney has the money and the lawyers... that's why this country is turning swiftly into the united corporations of america and I for one aint going quietly. I may not win, but it's not going to be because I kept my mouth shut.

But to truly answer your question honestly....yes....I think it's wrong for someone to take those rooms away from someone with needs, just as it's wrong to park in a handicapped space if you don't need it. And yes, I do wish Disney would go back to the way they used to do it.
But I haven't started any hateful threads about it, nor written any letters....I learned the hard way that you can't fight Disney when I was injured onboard due to a crew member's carelessness and they lied and lied and lied to me. Long story that I'm not going into....but it comes down to, again, it's their company, they have the money, they have the lawyers.

I guess that's why it was nice for a bit to be able to gripe here and not have to get into any arguments with anyone.

 

[NickyKnack]

Then I should be good and maybe the reaction I see is my projection of feeling guilty because the last thing I want to do is make them feel bad - but I wanna breathe. =)

The only time I ever give smokers a hard time is when the're in a car with me and refuse to crack a window or toss their cig butt on the ground... that bothers me. But to be fair all littering bothers me, I just see more of the cig butts around here then other trash.

I wouldn't worry about it if i were you. Again, most smokers know the difference between someone who is honestly bothered by or just trying to avoid the smoke. It's pretty easy to tell when you think about it, between the nature of how your trying to "protect yourself", body language, and speed. (If someone looks like they are trying to get out of the 'danger zone' quickly, it's a good bet they are honestly just trying to avoid the smoke). Smokers are also very aware of badly placed smoking areas, such as those directly next to a busy entry/exit or along a heavily traveled path [such as those at the Magic Kingdom in Frontierland or behind Sir Mickey's in Fantasyland].... and in those situations we understand that the non smoker is being inconvenienced just as much as the smoker is.


9 times out of 10 the person trying to be a jerk (which I'm using just because it's a DIS-friendly term close to what I really want to say) will telegraph their jerk-ish intentions. It could be comments, looks, body language, over-acting.... or honestly, sometimes just going out of their way to go by someone in a posted smoking area where they can make their feelings on the matter known.

 

[erinfarber]

My husband got the exact same reply makes me wonder if they are reading our complaints. Waiting to see what I get back before I respond back to them.

I also received the exact same response to my letter. Now that is just pitiful on Disney's part.

 

[pyramid2000]

Then I should be good and maybe the reaction I see is my projection of feeling guilty because the last thing I want to do is make them feel bad - but I wanna breathe. =)

The only time I ever give smokers a hard time is when the're in a car with me and refuse to crack a window or toss their cig butt on the ground... that bothers me. But to be fair all littering bothers me, I just see more of the cig butts around here then other trash.

I'm sorry, I have kept quiet with the little bit of bickering in here, but this just makes me let out a big "HUH?" If some smokes, outside, with the smoke moving up into the air, and this gets your lungs going with one breath, how on earth could you be in a car for even a second with someone smoking, cracked window or not? I'm not questioning your asthma or your health problems, but this just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[coopersmom]

I DID say INNOCENT people. I'd like to see some firm statistics on exactly how many people DIE from second hand smoke in one year, compared to how many innocent people are killed by drunk drivers, or someone under the influence committing a crime, or a bar fight.

I think I can safely say that there are not more than ...oh, I'll say five, just to be on the safe side....incidents of people DYING from smoke on a cruise ship balcony, in the past 10 years.

You'd, safely, be wrong. 42,000 Americans a year die from second-hand smoke (source: http://healthland.time.com/2012/09/21/the-major-toll-of-secondhand-smoke/). And more than 600,000 people world-wide (source: http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/tobacco/tobacco_facts/en/index2.html). 31% of those deaths attributed to second-hand smoke occur in children (source: http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/tobacco/tobacco_facts/en/index5.html).All told, 1 in 10 tobacco-related deaths is from second-hand smoke exposure (source: http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/tobacco/en/).

Cigarette smoke contains more than 70 known carcinogens (source: http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/).

The World Health Organization (WHO) has declared that there is: "“no safe level of exposure to tobacco smoke” (source: http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/tobacco/tobacco_facts/en/index1.html)

And WHO goes on to say: "Separate or ventilated smoking areas do not protect non-smokers from second-hand smoke. Second-hand smoke can spread from a smoking area to a non-smoking area, even if the doors between the two areas are closed and even if ventilation is provided. Only 100% smoke-free environments provide effective protection." (source: http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/tobacco/tobacco_facts/en/index5.html)

Any level of exposure is dangerous, and the effects are cumulative, meaning the more exposure you have, the more danger you're in. Some studies have indicated that exposure to second-hand smoke might even be worse than first-hand exposure, because second-hand smokers don't have a filter between their lungs and the smoke they're inhaling involuntarily actually contains MORE cancer-causing agents than that inhaled (source: http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/tobaccocancer/secondhand-smoke).

 

[NickyKnack]

It's hard and it's painful, but sometimes I don't have a choice.

I was in a car accident when I was 18 (driven off the road by a drunk driver) it was bad enough that I died en route to the hospital. Since then I have been petrified of being in moving cars, unfortunately sometimes that is unavoidable logistically. The fear is bad enough that I am considered a threat to myself and others when behind a wheel (the likelihood that I would close my eyes, cringe back, throw may hands in front of my face at the wrong moment is high).

All of the above to explain why I am reliant upon others to drive me when I need to go someplace. I can't drive myself instead and I have little to no control over what someone else does in their own car.

This is not as big of an issue as it was even 10 years ago... and now my wife drives me most everywhere, but I am a bit on the aspergers side and that means sometimes I am annoyingly pedantic. So when mentioning the only times I have done something I tend to include it all.

And hey since for the first time in my life I put the real story of why I don't drive out there. Does anyone know of a way to get past that fear? Because I've been looking since I was 18. The psychs seem to think if I had learned to drive before the accident I would have been ok. (My mom refused to allow me to get my learners permit.)

I'm sorry, I have kept quiet with the little bit of bickering in here, but this just makes me let out a big "HUH?" If some smokes, outside, with the smoke moving up into the air, and this gets your lungs going with one breath, how on earth could you be in a car for even a second with someone smoking, cracked window or not? I'm not questioning your asthma or your health problems, but this just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Suger Mag]

I think the thing that make me sad, is I feel that a lot of hurt feelings on both sides (smokers and non) and the vacations impacted by smoking neighbors could have been prevented if folks actually TALKED to eachother. Many smokers say over and over how they would be willing to be considerate if asked... but how many were ever really asked? I know that when I smoked I never was asked. I suspect that too often a non smoker would come out... smell a neighbor's smoke, and then (maybe not wanting to be confrontational etc) doesn't say anything and then is upset the entire cruise because they cannot use their balcony.... the smoker being unaware continues to smoke. I TOTALLY understand not wanting to cause trouble, issues, bad feelings. But a little communication can go a loooooong way to helping people coexist. But too often folks say nothing and then get upset

 

[bumbershoot]

It's hard and it's painful, but sometimes I don't have a choice.

I was in a car accident when I was 18 (driven off the road by a drunk driver) it was bad enough that I died en route to the hospital. Since then I have been petrified of being in moving cars, unfortunately sometimes that is unavoidable logistically. The fear is bad enough that I am considered a threat to myself and others when behind a wheel (the likelihood that I would close my eyes, cringe back, throw may hands in front of my face at the wrong moment is high).

All of the above to explain why I am reliant upon others to drive me when I need to go someplace. I can't drive myself instead and I have little to no control over what someone else does in their own car.

This is not as big of an issue as it was even 10 years ago... and now my wife drives me most everywhere, but I am a bit on the aspergers side and that means sometimes I am annoyingly pedantic. So when mentioning the only times I have done something I tend to include it all.

And hey since for the first time in my life I put the real story of why I don't drive out there. Does anyone know of a way to get past that fear? Because I've been looking since I was 18. The psychs seem to think if I had learned to drive before the accident I would have been ok. (My mom refused to allow me to get my learners permit.)

Oh major hugs towards you, that's awful.


*************

I wasn't following this thread, just saw the tail end of Nicky's post, but I saw comments about getting the same response?

I don't know what emails were sent to or from Disney, but I wanted to mention that companies often come up with specific, lawyer-vetted, responses to big issues, and that is what is sent. Each email that comes in is likely coded which means someone is following how many of each type of email comes in. Then once they have statistics they can make new emails or adjust the new policy,etc.

It also controls reps from going rogue and throwing their own answers out there. People tend to think that a company has to do what some random rep said, so especially with hot button issues they want to control what reps say.

It's not pathetic that they are sending out one crafted response. It's a normal thing and is part of what companies normally do.

 

[lizabu]

I think a good compromise would be making aft balconies ok to smoke on. How can any one possibly be bothered when the smoke has nowhere to go but back?

 

[erinfarber]

Just out of curiosity, I read that Anthony Connelly recently became the Senior Vice President of the Disney Cruise Line. I do not know much about him, but is it possible these new policies (No smoking on balcony and shorts are now permitted in dining room) are new ideas he is trying out for the Disney cruise line? The article Disney released in April 2013 is as follows:


Published April 21, 2013. | By Scott Sanders.


On Friday, Anthony Connelly was named Senior Vice President of Operations for Disney Cruise Line filling the shoes of Tom Wolber, who became the senior vice president for Disney Sports Enterprises and Downtown Disney earlier this year. On May 12, 2013, Connelly will assume the responsibility for the fleet-wide shipboard operations which include, onboard entertainment, youth activities, marine and technical operations, purchasing, logistics and shoreside travel operations as well as, operations at Disney’s private island Castaway Cay.

Anthony Connelly - DCL SeniorVP OperationsConnelly will report to Disney Cruise Line President, Karl Holz who is “thrilled” to have him join the Disney Cruise Line team. According to Holz, “Anthony’s strategic thinking and leadership skills, business and financial acumen, and his passion for Disney will position him for success in this role.”

Connelly began his Disney career almost 25 years ago in 1989, and advanced through various key leadership positions throughout the Walt Disney Parks and Resorts Finance organization. He has served as Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer for Disney’s U.S. Parks and Resorts businesses since 2006.

Connelly is actively involved in the state and local community, serving on the Board of Directors for the Florida Chamber of Commerce, Enterprise Florida, University of Central Florida Foundation, and Boys & Girls Clubs of Central Florida. Anthony was also a member of Florida Governor Rick Scott’s Economic Development Transition Team as well as a member of Florida Chief Financial Officer Jeff Atwater’s Transition Team. He has a master’s of business administration from The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania and is also a Certified Public Accountant.

























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[Mystery Fan]

It's hard and it's painful, but sometimes I don't have a choice.

I was in a car accident when I was 18 (driven off the road by a drunk driver) it was bad enough that I died en route to the hospital. Since then I have been petrified of being in moving cars, unfortunately sometimes that is unavoidable logistically. The fear is bad enough that I am considered a threat to myself and others when behind a wheel (the likelihood that I would close my eyes, cringe back, throw may hands in front of my face at the wrong moment is high).

All of the above to explain why I am reliant upon others to drive me when I need to go someplace. I can't drive myself instead and I have little to no control over what someone else does in their own car.

This is not as big of an issue as it was even 10 years ago... and now my wife drives me most everywhere, but I am a bit on the aspergers side and that means sometimes I am annoyingly pedantic. So when mentioning the only times I have done something I tend to include it all.

And hey since for the first time in my life I put the real story of why I don't drive out there. Does anyone know of a way to get past that fear? Because I've been looking since I was 18. The psychs seem to think if I had learned to drive before the accident I would have been ok. (My mom refused to allow me to get my learners permit.)

Thread is for smokers to vent about the policy chance......this post is totally off topic.

Your posts makes me feel as though I am on the 20th veranda down from you and you are offensively smoking. Will you please go some where else with your jabber, as I suffer from high blood pressure due the rule change. Just saying.

 

[bumbershoot]

Thread is for smokers to vent about the policy chance......this post is totally off topic.

Your posts makes me feel as though I am on the 20th veranda down from you and you are offensively smoking. Will you please go some where else with your jabber, as I suffer from high blood pressure due the rule change. Just saying.

What you quoted was that poster answering a pretty specific question that was asked here by pyramid2000. Perhaps you should be annoyed at the person that asked NK the question.

The formatting was odd, with the quote going below the answer, so maybe you missed that.