Should bigots be allowed to be teachers?

[TinkerBelled]

I'll say it again: for me the disturbing part wasn't even her support of this prom--it was the fact that when gay kids come and talk to her about their problems, she has said that they know she doesn't approve of homosexuality but that she loves them anyway ("they know I don't agree with it, but I care about you"). For me, that's crossing the line. The kids don't have to know that she doesn't agree with homosexuality--all they have to know is that their teacher cares about them.

For her to bring her opinions about gay life into counseling sessions, formal or informal, with her students is completely unacceptable.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

OK. So I'm dense. I just don't see it.

Again, if she was using class/school time to advocate for this "alternative prom", I'd agree with you. I don't see how attending a meeting at a church to discuss their options is using "her job and position as a teacher."

If I was a student, or my kids were students, at that school, I would not support the "second" prom. But I would not try to stop them from having one. It's their right. Hopefully they don't get a good turnout, and they lose money (decorations, hall rental, DJ, etc).

Uh, did you miss the part where she admitted she tells her gay students she doesn't approve of their orientation?

 

[Tiggernut_jadie]

BTW, does anyone know if this teacher is good at her job? Does that matter to anyone?

How can any teacher who says that her students know how she feels about them being gay - and its not in a positive way - be considered a 'good' teacher? So in answer to your question...yes I care and no she is not a good teacher!

 

[NHdisneylover]

I think that in the US everyone is free to have his or her own beliefs, even bigoted ones.

I, personally, feel that when one is not at work one has every right to express those beliefs, no matter how much I personally may dislike them.

Had this teacher worked on a campaign to block gay marriage in her state, etc--while I would dislike her cause immensely, I would support her right to publicly support what she believe in her off working hours.

HOWEVER, the moment she started arranging an "alternative" version of a school event that would intentionally exclude a class of students, she mixed her job in with those views in a way that is very damaging to the kids and THAT crosses the line big time.

I see this no differently than if someone decided to set up an "alternative graduation" only for white students, or an "alternative homecomming"only for Muslim students, etc.

If it is "alternative" fill in the blank with a major school activity, OR it is essentially the same as the activity but under a different name and held on the same date, etc--anything that is clearly meant to protest the way it is at the school and draw students away from the school sponsored event and into the other and that "other" is not open to ALL students equally--then I feel it is totally inappropriate for school staff to be involved in it.








Oh, and Candy Mandy, you do not speak for me in your "all" either. Nor do I find this to be a particularly welcoming place for the LGBT community---not bad, but not nearly as good as it could be (note the numbers of posters who were once regulars on the LGBT board who have left over time because they felt unwelcome here, or read Pete's infamous Gay Days rant, etc)----so your perceived "agenda" strikes me as pretty much a figment of an overly reactive imagination.

OK. So I'm dense. I just don't see it.

Again, if she was using class/school time to advocate for this "alternative prom", I'd agree with you. I don't see how attending a meeting at a church to discuss their options is using "her job and position as a teacher."

If I was a student, or my kids were students, at that school, I would not support the "second" prom. But I would not try to stop them from having one. It's their right. Hopefully they don't get a good turnout, and they lose money (decorations, hall rental, DJ, etc).

I quoted myself and bolded the portion which I feel explains how this is related to her job. Again, as I said in that post--had this teacher been publicly organizing a campaign against gay marriage, etc I would disagree with her, but not feel that she was doing anything that she should not as a teacher. However, what she is doing is organizing and promoting an event designed to directly compete with a school event and to exclude students. NO "good" teacher would do that, IMO.

 

[Chelley00]

This is my hometown. I'm so proud right now

It's a very small town, and has been closed minded as long as long as it's existed I think. When this story broke, it didn't even surprise me.

As long as she's not teaching her students this stuff, what's the point? Do we fire every teacher who does something in the media that could be something they could talk to their students about? We saw one of my daughter's teachers drinking a beer (and pretty tipsy) at a football game. As long as she's not telling my daughter it's okay to drink, it's good.

 

[Sorsha]

How do you feel about The United Negro College fund?

Personally, I have nothing against it, but I do think it is dangerous to deal in absolutes such as saying that all discrimination is wrong and should not be allowed.

I actually don't agree with having college funds or scholarships, etc available only to one group. I believe that they may be a necessity, to level the playing field when discrimination exists. But once legislation has been passed ending that discrimination, then the scholarships should be opened to anyone who is deserving. However, if we find that any group, for instance, in your example, those of African descent, are not being afforded the same opportunities as others; then it is time to look into it, investigate it, change it, or re-instate the programs.

Same with anything aimed at counter-acting discrimination of ANY kind, IMHO.

Now, if the United Negro College Fund said to some very deserving Asian person, "Sorry, but you can't have a scholarship purely because you have no worth, and are sinning against God by being Asian, go over here to the sinner's scholarship fund" then I would have a major problem with them.

THAT is like what is happening here.

 

[sam_gordon]

And this teacher is very clear that she tells her homosexual students that she does not approve of their orientation. Hostile environment? Think so.

Actually, that's not true. Neither the article nor the video says she TELLS them her opinion. It just says the students "know". Now, maybe she makes other derogatory comments. Maybe kids see her carrying a bible around. We don't know. But it's definitely NOT clear that tells the kids she doesn't approve of their orientation.

 

[mhsjax]

My hero!



I agree.



There is a vast difference between discussing the religion and politics in regards to homosexuality, and whether it is acceptable for a teacher in a public school system to discriminate against her gay students. This discussion concerns the later. If you stumble across a thread debating the religion and the relationship it has to why it should or should not be used to gay people, feel free to report that thread. You are the person who is attempting to derail this discussion. The rest of us are trying to discuss actions of a public school teacher and the consequences if any, arise from them.



MTE!



I agree. I remember "private" "alternative" Proms that were organized to ensure that Black students were excluded. It was illegal to refuse Black students entrance to the "official" Prom so there was another one held. It was not acceptable back then, it is not acceptable now. If allowing a teacher to vocalize her opinions about her gay students and then to name their private party a Prom, that is crossing the line.



Actually, I am offended by that posters' accusations.



We are not discussion a religious viewpoint. We are not defending our viewpoints using our religious backgrounds. We are discussing human rights in our Country and if a teacher can violate the law.

So, let me ask it this way. If a teacher discriminates against any group, White, Black, Chinese, Russian, Muslim, Autistic, Gay, Straight, Short.............you get the picture. Pick your group. Can a teacher decide that she does not agree that XXXXXXXXXXXX kids should be allowed into the Prom because they serve no purpose. Can she publicly organize an alternative Prom that will specifically disallow those students? Keep religious view out of it and substitute any group you choose.

This is what we are talking about.





Oh, it has been happening long before Gay kids had them. They were held to keep certain students out. I think that kids holing a party because they were refused entrance into a school sponsored event is different than have an alternative Prom because you can't refuse those students entrance from the "Official" one. It is disgraceful, IMO.

I see your point about discrimination and yes I think it is wrong, never said I didn't. What I have a problem with is for "some" and yes I did say "some" we must not speak for everyone, is that the basis for not agreeing with homosexuality is based in Christianity, and therefore they can't really express their opinion and what forms it. I would like to think that most, as I do, think it is wrong to discriminate and judge, but I also think you should be able to express your opinion, but due to certain rules, you can't. I am not arguing the merit of what this teacher did, or even if I agree or disagree. And for the record, I DISAGREE with her completely.

 

[LuvinLucifer]

I see a lot of people on both sides of the issue conflating behavior and orientation. One is a choice, and the other is not.

 

[NHdisneylover]

OK. So I'm dense. I just don't see it.

Again, if she was using class/school time to advocate for this "alternative prom", I'd agree with you. I don't see how attending a meeting at a church to discuss their options is using "her job and position as a teacher."

If I was a student, or my kids were students, at that school, I would not support the "second" prom. But I would not try to stop them from having one. It's their right. Hopefully they don't get a good turnout, and they lose money (decorations, hall rental, DJ, etc).

I'll try again in a non school way as well (since, as you say, you are "dense" )

Maybe someone works at an auto factory in a supervisory position. Maybe this person is very much a strong believer in their brand of religion and wishes that EVERYONE had to follow their religion and feels that everyone who believes in any other religion is a sinner.

The factory, a major player in town, throws a company BBQ every summer for all employees. This supervisor does not want to party with those of other religious beliefs and rather than simply not attend, instead sets up an "alternative BBQ" only for factory employees who have the same religious beliefs as she does. She publicly promotes her party, and gets others on board and calls in the media, etc.

This person would NOT be a good manager--partly because those who this person believes to be a sinner would very likely feel singled out and uncomfortable working for her after this. Also, because she is directly competing with a company event and trying to force her beliefs into a company social activity.

She should expect to lose her job if she pulled a stunt like this--just as the teacher should.

 

[sam_gordon]

I'll try again in a non school way as well (since, as you say, you are "dense" )

Maybe someone works at an auto factory in a supervisory position. Maybe this person is very much a strong believer in their brand of religion and wishes that EVERYONE had to follow their religion and feels that everyone who believes in any other religion is a sinner.

The factory, a major player in town, throws a company BBQ every summer for all employees. This supervisor does not want to party with those of other religious beliefs and rather than simply not attend, instead sets up an "alternative BBQ" only for factory employees who have the same religious beliefs as she does. She publicly promotes her party, and gets others on board and calls in the media, etc.

This person would NOT be a good manager--partly because those who this person believes to be a sinner would very likely feel singled out and uncomfortable working for her after this. Also, because she is directly competing with a company event and trying to force her beliefs into a company social activity.

She should expect to lose her job if she pulled a stunt like this--just as the teacher should.

Sorry, I understand why some of you think this makes her a bad teacher. I disagree. No problem.

What I don't understand is how she's "using her teaching position" to promote the second prom.

 

[robinb]

Actually, that's not true. Neither the article nor the video says she TELLS them her opinion. It just says the students "know". Now, maybe she makes other derogatory comments. Maybe kids see her carrying a bible around. We don't know. But it's definitely NOT clear that tells the kids she doesn't approve of their orientation.

Sam, are you a hair stylist IRL? Because you certainly know how to split hairs .

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Sam, are you a hair stylist IRL? Because you certainly know how to split hairs .

 

[Lorelei Lee]

and do you really think that after she's made these comments in public, that these comments were on TV, and that the story went viral on the internet, that ANY LGBT student in her class would ever feel comfortable again?

 

[declansdad]

Regarding the bolded, I disagree. Not that it's not your opinion, but I don't see her as "representing the school".

When she talks about a school related event people will see her as a teacher in that school. Regardless of whether you agree or not she is going to associated with the school.

 

[declansdad]

Thanks you for articulating the very thinly veiled propaganda objective behind the burgeoning number of "bigotry" threads in the community board. But next time, perhaps your leaders should give you better talking points. The one they provided you above is very old and tired.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

I'm not part of any group but your attempt to avoid the questions tells me I am correct.

 

[luvmy3]

This is my hometown. I'm so proud right now

It's a very small town, and has been closed minded as long as long as it's existed I think. When this story broke, it didn't even surprise me.

As long as she's not teaching her students this stuff, what's the point? Do we fire every teacher who does something in the media that could be something they could talk to their students about? We saw one of my daughter's teachers drinking a beer (and pretty tipsy) at a football game. As long as she's not telling my daughter it's okay to drink, it's good.

Just because she isn't standing up in front of a classroom doesn't mean she isn't teaching her students this stuff. The very act of publicly stating that she thinks being gay is wrong and wants a separate prom for straight kids IS teaching her students tht it is okay to discriminate based on sexual orientation.
And FWIW, there is a no alcohol rule here for games, and while I'm not sure what the punishment for a teacher drinking at a game is, I do know there would most likely be one.

 

[sam_gordon]

Sam, are you a hair stylist IRL? Because you certainly know how to split hairs .

Not a hair stylist, but what I do IS very particular on many things.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

This is my hometown. I'm so proud right now

It's a very small town, and has been closed minded as long as long as it's existed I think. When this story broke, it didn't even surprise me.

As long as she's not teaching her students this stuff, what's the point? Do we fire every teacher who does something in the media that could be something they could talk to their students about? We saw one of my daughter's teachers drinking a beer (and pretty tipsy) at a football game. As long as she's not telling my daughter it's okay to drink, it's good.

There's a huge difference between drinking a beer, or several, at a football game and publicly proclaiming that certain students have no reason to live.

 

[luvmy3]

Sorry, I understand why some of you think this makes her a bad teacher. I disagree. No problem.

What I don't understand is how she's "using her teaching position" to promote the second prom.

I don't think she is using her position to promote it. What she is doing is promoting discrimination and bigotry towards some of the students of that district. As a teacher, whether or not she is standing in front of a classroom, or speaking to a news reporter, that is just plain wrong.