Shopping for new power wheelchair for DD

[SueM in MN]

DD's old power wheelchair is needing to be replaced and we are shopping for a new one. NOTE: she can't drive an ECV, so I'm only looking for power wheelchair opinions.
What she has now is an Invacare Arrow. She needs a special seating system - her current seating is a Jay Deep Contour back and a Jay Deep Contour seat. We are open to other power wheelchairs, but would probably still get a Jay seating system since the Jay seems to work well for her.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dclfun]

Sue- I'm on my second Permobil chair and can't say enough good things about this brand and the options. I have a special seating system also and a Roho high profile cushion. The chair comes with optional tilt/recline/elevating leg rests and also the seat elevates 8" so your daughter can be at the height of those speaking to her if she wants or sit at tables of differing heights. The chair has protections and will only drive very slowly is someone's seat is elevated but she will quickly figure this out. I have a mount for an AAC and various trays mounted on the back. From what I've heard the Permobil is top of the line and several steps above Invacare in performance and reliability. Are you going to a seating clinic with her? From what I recall she is tiny but adult height? They have pediatric models where a child can "sit" on the ground with peers and then elevate back up plus standing models for adults and children, so there is lots to explore in terms of her needs.---Kathy

 

[SueM in MN]

We are going to Gillette Specialty Healthcare in Minneapolis/St. Paul.

She is 5 feet tall and about 85 pounds - so small adult (she has a 14 inch wide cushion that is 18 inches long -unusual size).

Our problem will be convincing insurance/MA that she needs something more than the very basic - last time they wanted to provide a Quickie, which was less expensive than the Invacare (she doesn't need tilt/recline/elevating footrests, but the ability to rise would be very nice).

 

[boosmom96]

Sue,
We have just ordered DD's (9) first power chair. She's been fortunate to have a loaner at school for the past school year. I've spent to better part of a year looking at the options that are out there, and have been lucky to have valuable input from her PT, OT and the Assistive Technology person at her school. What kind of chair is your DD used to driving, (front wheel, mid wheel or rear wheel drive) and how does she drive it (head array or joy stick)? Does she use her wheelchair to access a communcation device? These are questions that need to be answered before deciding on which chair is appropriate. DD uses an AES head array to drive an Invicare Tiger and also access her Vanguard II talker. Our AT person has found that Permobile & the other main manufacturer (forgot the name, sorry!) are not compatible with the AES head array and have a very noticiable time lapse when switching between driving & "talking". This really did not work for DD. She also found it easier to drive a rearwheel drive with the head array. I also found that the footprint of the Permobile to be larger than the Invicare. I was a bit put off by some of the "mobility specialists" that tried to push me into choosing what they thought was best. I really felt that they were making their recommendations based on what was best for their bottomline - not was appropriate for my DD. It's a tough decision, I would recommend talking it over with your DD's PT & OT. I've found they have a pretty good idea of what all the options are. It's really hard to figure out what is going to work best. Good Luck.
By the way, we've ended up going with the Invicare Tiger with the AES head array. The seating system is being custom built by a local company. We've never had a problem getting the special seating funded, and I'm not expecting the tilt in space & recline to be denied, but I've been told that the raising feature will not be paid for. It is not considered necessary for the user, it's an added feature for the comfort of the caregiver and MediCal & Kaiser won't fund it! (God forbide we're more comfortable!!) We're trying to get it funded by writing it into her IEP as necessary for to fully function in her school environment. It's a long shot, but we're trying it!
I'm not sure I agree with dclfun. I've been told that Permobile and Invicare are very comparable as far as quailty goes. It really depends whether you are looking for mid, front or rear wheel drive. I can say from experience that DD's best friend's Permobile has broken down twice this past school year and DD's Invicare has run great!

 

[dclfun]

Obviously the best thing would be to have a therapist present and to be sure all the features she needs will fit on the chair and be able to be used. Since your daughter has used a w/c for so long I know you know what you're looking for Sue. Most people with ALS that I know end up with a Permobil due to needing all the options and Invacare, from the experience of adult users/ALS Clinic doesn't hold up as well. From the therapists at the clinic Invacare is considered a step-down from Permobil at this point in time. I'm not sure why or what quality has declined, only that my therapist says it has- I've not driven an Invacare. A Permobil can be driven with various attachments including the head array and a chin stick, sip and puff, or having the joystick moved to various positions including midline. I have no idea about the head array with an AAC however since I will be using my AAC with a proximity switch I don't see a problem having it mounted wherever I can use it best. I'd hope that they'd approve the seat elevator for everyone. It does increase function for the user. As for the other features I think alot depends on insurance coverage. For instance I was very surprised to see that MJ ( Bonny's daughter) got a chair funded with tilt and recline since she is ambulatory. Usually those features are only allowed on someone's chair who needs position changes they cannot make on their own. It's a shame when insurance companies get to decide our comfort and function. ---Kathy

 

[Nanajo1]

I've had an Invacare Arrow for close to 10 yrs. I have a Jay cushion and adjustable back support. I have the recline/tilt option but never used it. The "seating" specialist thought if my conditions deteriorated then I would need it and would not be able to get it later. The joystick is malfunctioning. So now I will also be on the look out for a new chair if the joy stick cannot be repaired. I appreciate all this discussion on the different types. I was not offered anything other then what the vendor suggested.

 

[bumpysheep]

Permobils are great! But my insurance won't pay for one

What about an Invacare TDX5, great chair, just don't get the swingaway joystick, it's totally faultly! Everyone I know with a TDX3 or TDX5 that has one regrets it. Six wheels on the ground takes some getting used to and it could present some issues with some tie down systems. TDX5 and Permobil Chairman are the only two chairs I really like. I really like my TDX5

 

[bumpysheep]

Another thing I should add is while private insurance readily pays for a TDX5, medicare and medcaid will usually only fund at the TDX3 level. If thats the case you might want to look again, TDX3 users seem to have a lot more issues with quality of parts that the newer trim (TDX5).

 

[slkant]

I've owned a Permobil since 2002. I like it very much. I wish it was a bit smaller (or maybe it just feels bigger than it is?), but it works very well. I'm a little less than 100 pounds and 5 feet, so I'm close to your daughter's size. Because of limited reach, I have the joystick on a swing arm that hits me midway on my body. The original factory-installed swing arm wasn't very durable, but our vendor suggested another kind and we have never had problems with the replacement. My seating is also more narrow than the standard adult seating if I remember correctly. I was lucky that the Permobil factory is near where I live, so I was able to test a chair configured for me ahead of purchase to see if the Permobil was a good match. As much as power chairs cost, it seems hard to spend so much without being able to see and test the various options to see what works best.

 

[dclfun]

I have insurance and thus had no trouble getting the new Permobil C500 but was told Medicare DOES fund a C300. If you have VR then their assistance can be used to upgrade to get the other features ( tilt, recline, seat elevator, elevating legrests) if they are needed for you to be employed or in school. I'd also check into any other assistance or secondary insurance if you have it to upgrade a chair to what is truly needed for your comfort and function. Sue, I know your daughter isn't on Medicare but in case anyone else is and wanted a certain chair, there are ways around their funding restrictions. Most vendors will work with a client to get what they ultimately need.---Kathy

 

[Nanajo1]

It turns out it is not my joystick but could be the main controller. So now I need to decide if I should go ahead and repair the 10 year old chair or replace it. My insurance is 80-20. It would be a bit out of pocket. I'm looking at Invacre and Pride models. I have a rear drive chair now but most of the models I was shown are center driven. I know I'll adapt but to those that have center driven chairs how do you like them. I found backing up quite different in the center driven chair but it's turning radius was great. I'd appreciate any feed back. TIA

 

[SueM in MN]

Thanks for all the input so far.

One of DD's friends from dance class switched about 6-9 months ago from a rear wheel drive Invacare Arrow (just like my DD's) to a 6 wheel mid-wheel model. She said she didn't have any problems getting used to it, but her mom said she had a bit of trouble adjusting to the turning (the center of your turing circle in the rear wheel drive chair is at the back wheels and the center in the mid wheel chairs is right below you). She also had a little bit of trouble with the chair being a tiny bit longer.

Permobils are great! But my insurance won't pay for one

What about an Invacare TDX5, great chair, just don't get the swingaway joystick, it's totally faultly! Everyone I know with a TDX3 or TDX5 that has one regrets it. Six wheels on the ground takes some getting used to and it could present some issues with some tie down systems. TDX5 and Permobil Chairman are the only two chairs I really like. I really like my TDX5

I'm quite certain DD could not get our insurance to pay for a Permobile either.
I've been looking on the Invacare site at the TDX series. She has "True Track" and a top speed of 7.5 miles on her present wheelchair, so I think we could argue that the base TDX3 would not be a comparable replacement.
She has a swingaway joystick on her present wheelchair. I had hoped they improved it on the newer models, but it sounds like they haven't.

 

[dclfun]

Sue- I would fight for the Permobil, esp. for the seat elevating feature. This way your daughter can raise herself to different counter heights, be face to face with someone for a conversation ( which helps the neck besides giving dignity), and thus greatly improve her ability to function. To get a certain wheelchair brand or model if a P.T. will include on the prescription certain features that are ONLY available with a particular chair, it helps to get THAT chair funded vs. another type.---Kathy