Serious Discussion Regarding Trade Honor

Discussion in 'Virtual Traders Market' started by Disney Dreams, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. Disney Dreams

    Disney Dreams Proudly afflicted with TDMA!

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    Hi all,

    I am sincerely hoping that this can be a serious discussion about trading and honoring a commitment. I am asking anyone that chooses to participate in this discussion to please fight the desire to use any specific titles of individuals so that this can be a worthy discussion to hopefully improve the quality of the DIS boards VMK trades.

    I used to know that if I had an agreed upon trade from these boards, the trade would take place. Yes, it may take some time for myself and the other person to connect due to time zones, different schedules, real life :scared1: and such, but the trade would occur.

    Recently, however, I have had MANY trades in which someone agrees to a trade, another person comes along and offer me a better offer, I turn it down because I honor my commitments, and then the original "winning bidder" backs down, traded with someone else, or simply changed their mind.

    Is there absolutely no honor it sticking to agreed upon trades?

    Just recently, I sent 7 PMS to someone in an effort to connect for an agreed upon trade (committed to in mid-December) for 15,000 credits worth of holiday items in a shopping spree. The most recent PM was sent yesterday stating the importance of completing this trade as I was concerned holiday items were going to disappear shortly. Sure enough, all items were gone today and this afternoon I got a PM from the person that had committed to this trade informing me s/he just "happened" to get the items we had agreed to trade earlier today and therefore would not be trading me 15,000 credits of agreed upon (and now gone) holiday items.

    Clearly I am quite upset and am out a considerable amount of AGREED UPON items. Sadly, this is not an isolated case. Backing out of agreed upon trades seems to be something that is becoming somewhat commonplace on the DIS Boards and I am very curious as to why this is occurring and if other members of this community find it to be as frustrating and disheartening as I do.

    Does an agreed upon trade mean anything on DIS anymore?

    Remember, no titles please so this can stay a productive discussion. Thanks for your input.
     
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  3. B_Real

    B_Real Mouseketeer

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    This has happened to me once since I joined the DIS. The person never responded to PM's or anything. I just left it alone after holding the items for 2 months. I came to the DIS because of the reputation of the trades among the members. But with new members joining everyday, I think this is a good way to stress the pride the members have in completing trades. Hopefully this will be a sticky right there with the DIS unite against scam thread.

    Off topic of the thread, Dreams sorry this happened to you. I got a few extra of the candy/gingerbread items for the Gingerbread Competition but went in another direction. You are more than welcome to them from one ice cube lover to another. Will PM u what I have tomorrow evening.
     
  4. PurpleDuck

    PurpleDuck <font color=purple>Earning My Feathers<br>Quack Qu

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    In the spirit of serious discussion about trading honor, I am presenting another "disagreeable" issue, also hopefully to improve the quality of trades here.

    Harrassing PMs. Without naming names, there is sadly a member of these DIS boards, who feels it necessary? useful? beneficial? to their purposes, to send harrassing, threatening PMs to traders who bid against them.

    This not only disturbs the nature of a trade thread - to bid against others to the benefit of both trader and tradee, but undermines the very board itself. Bad enough that adults have to be harrassed, but at least they (hopefully) can stand up for themselves and ignore the bully. But the children that use this board, are not always so lucky to know they can ignore those harrassings and threats.

    I, myself, have been the recipient of a barrage of these spiteful PMs, actively sent during "a bidding war" to try to first cajole me. Then by not acknowledging said PM, received one suggesting plans to undermine the trader by "sharing the booty" for a cheaper price. Then lastly, an outright threat to back down and away from their attempt to secure the item(s) at a cheaper, uncontested value.

    These PMs were forwarded to the moderators here. Sadly, they informed me and others who have received some from this member, that they have no authority to take any action, since PMs are strictly off limits and indeed, private.

    Since there is no recourse against anyone harrassing or threatening a member of this board, via PM, and specifically regarding this trade board, I wish to submit the following, to all members of DIS boards that trade here, adults and especially the children:

    - You are free to bid as you choose.
    - Of course you must honor that offer you make, but do NOT allow anyone (other than the trader who started the thread), in ANY fashion, to make you feel you should give up on what you want to trade for and offer!
    - Remember, anyone (other than the trader) who is trying to make you stop or give up on a trade, DOES NOT have the power to do so. They can neither touch anything of yours on VMK, nor touch/harm you (as long as you keep your personal info, such as name/address/phone to yourself)

    NOBODY should have to be afraid to enjoy and utilize this DIS VMK trade board, and NOBODY, if they are honest, moral people, would even dream of trying to harrass or threaten a fellow member for their own gain. IGNORE them if they try.
     
  5. Belle1997

    Belle1997 I married a beast and found my prince

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    I agree with you 100% and know that this has been happening. I believe once an PM has been shared with a moderator it is no longer considered private. Also I believe that if there is threatening or abuse of system that it should be dealt with by the moderators.

    I am too disgusted by this behavior and sad that still months later this this continues to be an issue that the moderators turn a blind eye too. As adults we can finght our own battles most of the time. But if a kid is getting these then I expect the mods to give a hand.

    To be bullied on Dis is just not right. I know that the mods on the VMK dis part take scamming in the game very seriously why is dis board PM's any different.
     
  6. lovethattink

    lovethattink DIS Veteran

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    As a mother of a vmk trader, I know there are a couple times where it was in his best interest to back out of a trade.

    Those times he had posted, and I hadn't seen it, trade offers that were utterly rediculous. Offering way to much for an item he really wanted. I knew he had originally posted and made an offer, but then he went and upped his offer without my knowledge.

    Other DIS friends caught the rediculous offer, and told him not to make the trade, in fact, they ended up gifting him the item in one case, and in the other ended up finding someone who was interested in his original offer.

    While I'm sure the original person who accepted his offer, (after my DIS friends stepped in to watch out for him), may have felt slighted, as a parent I'm so glad they looked out for him and didn't allow him to fall prey to someone else's greed.
     
  7. aengus

    aengus <font color=blue>Official Head VMK Cheerleader!</f

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    I give kids a wide berth when it comes to this sort of thing. I mean after all they are just kids.

    Teens and adults I keep it pretty simple. If I feel I was slighted once, then I no longer trade with that person. I keep it friendly, I just no longer make/accept offers with that person.
     
  8. redshoe

    redshoe I've gotta have more cowbell!

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    I've only had a trade fall through once. I IM'ed the person I was to trade with a couple of times, found out that something happened with them that delayed the trade, which was fine, and IM'ed them one more time after that was supposed to have been straightened out. Then I left the ball in their court, but never heard from them.

    I was disappointed since the magic that I was trading for was supposed to be a gift for my son, but it happens. I don't think the person really meant to back out of the trade. I think life just got in the way.

    Something I've experienced frequently is making an offer for something I really want, being told that it's being considered, and then hearing no more about it even after asking what they've decided (not harassing - just politely asking after a reasonable amount of time has passed). More than once I've offered on something to be told that my offer was being considered, and I've held onto the items that I was offering when I could have traded them for something else because I was hoping that my original offer would be accepted. I've missed out on some decent trades that way. Don't tell me you're considering my offer and then leave me hanging indefinitely...I'd rather hear a "no, thank you" than nothing at all.
     
  9. cteddiesgirl

    cteddiesgirl <font color=deeppink>Not invisible to the Tag Fair

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    I agree with everything said here.

    I haven't traded much lately. I had an agreed upon trade right before Thanksgiving. I sent a PM letting her know when I was available for trading. I always tell a person I'm trading with to please let me know when they will be available for a trade. I like to know ahead of time so I can make sure to be in VMK with the right character at the right time. It never fails that they send me a message stating "I'm on right now". That doesn't always help me. I may not be on DIS or I might not even be in VMK.
    Well, she and I kept missing each other partly due to this. I waited the entire week and weekend after Thanksgiving. I sent her a PM on the friday letting her know when I could be available and the next day noticed that she had been on DIS but never replied to my PM. So I waited again. The day after that I sent another PM. I eventually asked her if she was still trading as I noticed that she'd had her thread closed. She eventually got back to me and said she changed her mind.
    I then sent another PM saying that she should have at least sent me a PM stating that she changed her mind rather than leaving me to guess at what she was doing and making me wait for more than a week.
    She of course sent another PM stating that she had been busy with her family and had had no time to send me a quick PM. Spending time with family is normal. I expected a delay in the trading due to the holiday.
    But, it only takes a minute to send a PM. If you have time to sit and read the DIS, then you have time to let the people you're supposed to be trading with know what's going on.

    Anyway, I never go back on my agreements. I will always follow through.
    I do believe this problem is arising with the number of newer (and mostly younger) members of the forum. Also, so many of the older players (kids & adults) have either stopped posting as much or have just left the forums. :(
    We really need to set down some examples for these newer and/or younger players.

    I also believe that each person should take personal responsibility for their trades. If a person is offering you way too much for something, you really shouldn't be so greedy and let them know. They may be just a newbie, just a kid or don't know the values of certain items.

    Plus, I also believe that the forum mods should not let stalking, threats, manipulations, etc exist on the forums in any manner. I don't care if it's sent in a PM or not. They are still violating forum rules. Forum rules should apply to the PMs as well as the public threads. So if a person forwards a violating PM to a mod, they should take action. Get these people off the forum. We don't need them.
     
  10. aengus

    aengus <font color=blue>Official Head VMK Cheerleader!</f

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    I just want to clear this up, and as relates to purpleducks post as well.

    Moderators do not have the authority to go after PM's but Webmasters do. When something that is serious is brought to our attention we do forward it on to a Webmaster. Moderators can't read your pm's if your wondering, therefore we cant enforce anything there. After all if it is forwarded to us, how can we be certain it was not modified? Its just text.

    So if there is a threat, or something serious happening, rest assured it will be dealt with, just not directly by a moderator.
     
  11. cteddiesgirl

    cteddiesgirl <font color=deeppink>Not invisible to the Tag Fair

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    I'm personally aware that you guys can't read our PMs. But I do believe when we forward threatening PMs some action should be taken. Understandable that the regular mods can't take care of the problem. But you should let the person know that you are forwarding itto a webmaster. They in turn should get back to the person that was threatened. If they can't take action at that time, they should let the person know. They should also at least put the violater on a watch list. If they receive anymore info that that person is threatening other people, then there should be action.

    It's understandable that when only one person reports someone, no real action is taken. But when two or more people start complaining about someone, the webmasters should be taking action. :)

    As stated, we don't need these kinds of people here. We really just want DIS to be a friendly place (with small disagreements now and then).
     
  12. SkippyPaul

    SkippyPaul Nascar VMK Centerfold -February-

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    First off, Happy New Year everyone.

    Maybe through this thread we can all take a constructive look at our trading ethics. I think if we all look back over the past year and think, maybe all of us have dropped the ball at one time or another. I know i have. But on the other hand maybe this is a good time to make a resolution to be a better trader here on the board. Even now my mind is reeling, wondering if I have an outstanding thread, and yes I do and Im sure others here do to. But what more can you do except to pm the winner or post in your thread and they dont respond? Dropping a thread is one thing but harrassing another bidder is very different. And if I have a trade thread going and a dis is doing that to another person in my thread I want to know about it. Maybe the mods can't do anything but we as responsible dis traders can. PM the op of the thread and make them aware what is going on in the thread.

    I think there should be a guideline with trading. All offers posted in the threads. No listing on multiple boards but that wont happen. So maybe just try and have some honor and respect, start with that. I myself don't do alot of trading here because I was burned a few times. So I'm pretty selective who I trade with and often times I dont take the "best" offer I take the one I trust in. Maybe its that simple.

    Good points here tho everyone.
    Rob
     
  13. Bugdozer

    Bugdozer <font color=royal blue>One day at a time.<br>Yeste

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    Hi Sea Tea so glad you brought this point up :)

    This drives me crazy! We should be fair not just greedy.

    Just the other day I had someone offer me on my inferno(for credits) and I accepted. Then a while later another person posted if I had not traded it they would offer me xxxx amount which was 10,000 credits more then I accepted. I politely told them I had traded it and I did have another and would trade it for the same as the one I accepted not for the 10,000 extra. It should not be about greed but about fairness.

    I am amazed how I see some people looking for items and can give 6 reasons why they think the item is worth only this when they want the item but a week or 2 later when they are trading away the same item they can find 6 reasons why it suddenly is worth so much more now they they have it for trade. Some people do this all the time.

    An item is only worth what both parties want. Some one might think item A is worth more then Item B because they have different wants and needs. I think long winded explanations as to why something is worth this or that is not necessary. Just because someone can reason in their mind what this quest item is worth does not mean it is the same value to another. If both parties are happy and get what they want then the trade is fair.

    Bug
     
  14. PurpleDuck

    PurpleDuck <font color=purple>Earning My Feathers<br>Quack Qu

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    While I appreciate your reply to both CT and myself, this issue is still occurring.

    I did have someone stalking and harrassing me on both VMK and here on DIS, back at the end of 2005 and into 2006. That party did send me PMs as well as publicly posting. The public posts were handled very well by the mods. They did further assist, when I forwarded the PMs to them, at having the Webmasters look into it. There were disciplinary measures taken, and I most humbly thank DIS and its admin for being able to deal effectively with it.

    I do believe the difference here this time, is that this member who sends the PMs about trades, knows the difference, and as such has not posted any harrassments publicly. Therefore, while the current mods send this information to the webmasters, it is not as easy for DIS admin to trust that the PMs have not been altered, since there is no "public" postings. That is the sad part, which must be accepted by all. Therefore my post, to alert/advise others, most especially the kids on here, to not be afraid if they get a PM like this.
     
  15. aengus

    aengus <font color=blue>Official Head VMK Cheerleader!</f

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    I am pretty comfortable with the fact your not aiming this at me, but I think maybe this would be a good opportunity for it to be public as to exactly how I handle such a matter. I respond to the person who forwarded me the PM, and first do let them know I can't do anything directly in regards to PM's, I then let them know I am however forwarding this to the WM's for their review and if they deem necessary, action taken.

    good points!

    We of course all want to get "top dollar" for our trades, but often we can see that clearly something went beyond that point, where we can tell someone just doesn't know the value. I completely agree with your points.

    Well, tricky to comment on that 2nd paragraph. If it can't be proven, I guess we can't expect much to be done. HOWEVER, your last sentence I believe is extremely important for everyone to know.

    Do not ever feel pressured by anyone including a moderator in PM to accept a trade no matter what the circumstances are. Forward that PM to a moderator or a webmaster. Even if a person doesnt break a rule of the boards. It sure doesn't hurt to make moderators and webmasters aware of such tactics. Sometimes it can be just kids who really want an item bad, a friendly pm from a moderator can usually clear that up peacefully. If thats not the case, moderators can be aware and try to keep an eye on things a bit more closely.

    Also! remember if someone continues to harass , there is an ignore option in your control panel ;)

    Also, everyone does have the right to walk away from a trade right up until that final "do you accept" box. Also be aware that the person you were trading with has the right to feel you didnt honor an agreement, and may hold it against you in future trades.
     
  16. tofubeast

    tofubeast DIS Veteran

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    While I spend most of my "vmk" discussion time on the dis, I have been known to travel over to some other message boards as well. (but trust me Dis.. I :lovestruc you the most!)

    Anyway... my point. I kind of like how some other boards have trading feedback systems ala ebay where you can rate your satisfaction with a particular trade. While you can never be 100% sure about a person (although I like to think the best), the feedback is helpful in knowing someone has a decent track history. Just curious if it was ever something considered on the dis vmk boards. I have only been on the vmk boards here since this past summer, so I don't know. Not even sure if the techonology is possible on the software used for the dis. Oh well just a thought!

    Thanks to the post author, I think this has brought up very valid points and a nice "refresher" for the new year. And as one said above, please remember to let those who offer know your final decision on their trade offer...whether a yay or nay. It isn't fun to be left hanging!

    As Tim Gunn says on my favorite show.... "carry on..."
     
  17. mtlhddoc2

    mtlhddoc2 DIS Veteran<br><font color=blue>Ask me my GRRRR fo

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    This is actually a reason I do not frequent certain boards. Can you imagine the garbage that people go through because if that? Seriously, I am an ebay seller and I have received unwarranted negatives from new users. Now take that into account and throw 5000 14-16 year old into the mix. Forget it, if Dis rolled out a feedback system, I would find another place to go, permanently.
     
  18. aengus

    aengus <font color=blue>Official Head VMK Cheerleader!</f

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    well I have also seen that system fail on some boards as well. I dont want to name a board that I am talking about as I am an active member and I dont want people to get the wrong impression of it. Popular people get good votes, People on the outs get bad votes. If you want to see it first hand you can go to our creative boards and read any of the "rate your ____" threads.

    I can tell you what has worked pretty well for me. Post count, start date, and reading often enough to get a feel for people in general. It's not perfect, I am sure we can all site an example of where that didnt work, but more than not it works for me.

    One thing that is very different here from many other sites is this board is not Centralized around VMK. Although our community within the community is tight, this is a Walt Disney World information website first, secondary the other parks, third the orlando area in general, and finally all the disney spin offs including VMK.

    We are a real community tho, thats why the fights here hurt more ROFL.
     
  19. steamboatpete

    steamboatpete I once came in third in a steamboatpete lookalike

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    I made a deal with Bug for inferno and it took at least a week to finally do it. By then, I had been presented with several chances to get inferno for less, but at the time I made the deal, I wanted that inferno (so that both of my kids would get one at the same time) and I made a deal and stuck with it, rather than telling Bug, "sorry, I was offered inferno for less", which I've seen other people do. A deal is a deal. I wish everyone else felt the same way.

    On another board, I've had several deals just sort of die, and eventually, people just tell you they got it elsewhere. Drives me nuts.

    And I see some people use trade boards almost like a free option. Example: either here or on one other board where I trade a lot, I struck a few deals for my cowboy pants and musketeer hats. Several people dragged their heels, wondering whether they would be rereleased. When the cowboy stuff came out, the deals hadn't been finished, and no one completed their deals. The musketeer hats were not rereleased, and everyone was willing to make the deal.

    I've never had that trouble on other sites, but a family member got negative feedback from a guy who strung him along on a stitch-for-inferno trade deal. The guy didn't really believe that he had stitch, and made the deal just trying to "bust" him for scamming. Once they got into a trade window, the guy bailed out of the trade and claimed he dc'd, then spent the next few weeks saying he'd make the deal that night, tomorrow, etc. After a month, the guy fessed up, resulting in negative feedback that he "wouldn't finish the deal." He then got retaliatory feedback from the bogus trader, who said something like "a bad trader" or something nonspecific like that.
     
  20. BriarRosie

    BriarRosie <font color=blue>Creator of Tag Fairy Haiku:<br>Cl

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    I've actually PMed someone who started a thread where he accepted the trade and got a last-minute offer higher than the accepted trade. When he responded that he would honor the trade, that impressed me enough to send a positive PM commending him of his trade ethics.

    It also reinforced to me that I should have confidence in this poster for any trade offer I might make in the future, and I told him so.

    I think if you withdraw a trade, it should be done within the public thread on both sides. I recently backed out of a trade because the original poster wanted me to boost my offer. When I backed out, I got an offer by PM
    for the same item at a cheaper price, and I paid the price I publicly offered
    to be fair. :)

    I hope this thread sheds new light for those who've had trade issues.
     
  21. llama62

    llama62 Wants his own scouting report

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    i have been on the other end of the trading fall throughs because i have backed out some times. I want to know, what's the big deal if i fall out because i dont want the items anymore? Its just an online game and you shouldnt hold it against me just because i wouldnt trade my stuff.
     

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