Seeking Estate Settlement Advice

[Lucky Bug]

My father recently passed away, rather suddenly. He was almost 70. He left his estate to be equally divided between Lottie, his wife of the past 18 years, and me. We are to act as co-executors of the estate, so nothing gets settled unless we can both agree. I live in a nearby state, so that only complicates matters since everything in settling an estate is "hurry up and wait" anyway.

I am my father's only child and I am in my mid-forties. Lottie is in her late 60's and has 3 adult children, who I knew in high school. I was not good friends with any of them back then and since we were all adults when our parents married, we are not close now either. My father earned the lion's share of the money in the relationship. He was retired and had a nice pension, which Lottie will be continuing to draw for quite some time in the future. The house is paid for, as are the car, the truck, the two boats, and the piece of land that only has a well and septic on it at this point. There are 3 life insurance policies. My father never updated the beneficiary information on the first 2 policies that I heard back on so far. The life insurance is set to be paid out to my former stepmother, who is now deceased, or to me as the contingent beneficiary. There is about $75,000 in life insurance that I will be getting as a result of his procrastination, if all three policies turn out to have the same beneficiary information.

The life insurance money is not legally considered to be part of the estate, however, I know that Lottie is going to look at it as being part of the estate. I know that her oldest son will know the difference, but he is going to do everything possible to protect her interest in this, which is understandable since she only has a 7th or 8th grade education and is completely lost without my father. I know that Lottie will not have the liquid assets to buy me out of my half. I do not want to buy her out of her half either, because I don't need a house up there. I don't want the land. I don't need boats. I really don't want the Cadillac or the truck either. To buy me out, we are looking at her needing to have about $80,000 (most likely a lowball estimate) to cover the house, the cars, the boats, the tools, the land, savings & checking money, and the "stuff" that was his that we need to split down the middle.

She doesn't want to move, which I understand, but the house is too big for her alone and her health is declining and she won't be able to keep it up the way that it needs to be kept. She doesn't want to sell the vehicles, mostly because she thinks that if they are there that everyone will still think that Daddy is there, which is just stupid since everyone in town knew my father or her, so they know he's gone even with the car and truck still in the driveway. She is ok with selling the boats. I think she would be ok with selling the land, but finding a buyer is going to be the hard part. The tools and "stuff" can be pretty easily sold off and what can't be sold off can fairly easily be donated to a trade school or charity. This is not going to be easy and I have to decide how much "fight" to put into this. I personally don't care if I ever live in that town again. I don't know many people that stayed there after graduation. Most of us got out and stayed out because we knew that it was not going to be a place that we would ever be able to call home again.

I have no major love for Lottie. She was good to Daddy, but we had our issues. For the past 12 or so years, I rarely saw my father and it was due to her religious issues with the way that I live my life. She had no problem with my extreme loser ex, but for some reason, she didn't much care for the amazing woman that I am in a relationship with now. My partner is a good person who pays her bills, has always been good to me, and is about the nicest person that you would ever want to meet. I have no idea why Lottie decided that she didn't like her, but she decided to pull some holy roller, "You better get to the Lord." stuff on me and I told Dad that I love him, but I wasn't putting up with that stuff. He understood, but I still feel like she robbed me of my father in those final years. Putting that as much aside as I can, I am trying to figure out what to do about all of this estate stuff without getting lawyers involved, as they would eat through the money quickly and neither of us would emerge with anything in the end. I don't want to just roll over and let her have the entire estate just to keep peace, but then again, I am not sure how much hate, heck, and discontent the money is worth either.

Any insights would be appreciated. I am not sure what my father would feel was the right thing to do in this. He made the choice to not change the beneficiary info on the insurance knowing that I would get the money. He made the choice to write the will the way that he did splitting everything equally. He wrote the will just after Lottie pulled the holy roller stuff, so it wasn't like he didn't know that there were issues there at that time. I wish I had family to run this past, but I don't. With the exception of some distant cousins, I am pretty much alone in this world with the exception of my partner. I trust her judgement, but she doesn't really want to get in the middle of this one, which I understand, but I need some guidance.

I hate feeling lost.

 

[Nette]

First of all, I'm so sorry for your loss.

I went through something similar for the last 2.5 years, only I had no step mom to contend with. You probably want to hire a lawyer (in some states it's even required) in the county where your father resided. Probably your step mother will inherit the house completely under rights of survivorship. Especially if her name is on the title.

I'm not sure on the life insurance, but there might be state laws that says she gets a portion (or all) of it because she was his spouse.

Like I said before, you really need to find a lawyer. I'm so sorry you're going through this. Being an executor is not an honor, it's a major PITA. I think I hated every minute of it, but there was no one else who could do it.

I wish you luck. Lean on your partner. I'm sure she will support you, even if she doesn't want to get in the middle of things.

Feel free to PM about anything else that I might have an answer to (debts, bills etc)

 

[DebbieB]

My father recently passed away, rather suddenly. He was almost 70. He left his estate to be equally divided between Lottie, his wife of the past 18 years, and me. We are to act as co-executors of the estate, so nothing gets settled unless we can both agree. I live in a nearby state, so that only complicates matters since everything in settling an estate is "hurry up and wait" anyway.

I am my father's only child and I am in my mid-forties. Lottie is in her late 60's and has 3 adult children, who I knew in high school. I was not good friends with any of them back then and since we were all adults when our parents married, we are not close now either. My father earned the lion's share of the money in the relationship. He was retired and had a nice pension, which Lottie will be continuing to draw for quite some time in the future. The house is paid for, as are the car, the truck, the two boats, and the piece of land that only has a well and septic on it at this point. There are 3 life insurance policies. My father never updated the beneficiary information on the first 2 policies that I heard back on so far. The life insurance is set to be paid out to my former stepmother, who is now deceased, or to me as the contingent beneficiary. There is about $75,000 in life insurance that I will be getting as a result of his procrastination, if all three policies turn out to have the same beneficiary information.

The life insurance money is not legally considered to be part of the estate, however, I know that Lottie is going to look at it as being part of the estate. I know that her oldest son will know the difference, but he is going to do everything possible to protect her interest in this, which is understandable since she only has a 7th or 8th grade education and is completely lost without my father. I know that Lottie will not have the liquid assets to buy me out of my half. I do not want to buy her out of her half either, because I don't need a house up there. I don't want the land. I don't need boats. I really don't want the Cadillac or the truck either. To buy me out, we are looking at her needing to have about $80,000 (most likely a lowball estimate) to cover the house, the cars, the boats, the tools, the land, savings & checking money, and the "stuff" that was his that we need to split down the middle.

She doesn't want to move, which I understand, but the house is too big for her alone and her health is declining and she won't be able to keep it up the way that it needs to be kept. She doesn't want to sell the vehicles, mostly because she thinks that if they are there that everyone will still think that Daddy is there, which is just stupid since everyone in town knew my father or her, so they know he's gone even with the car and truck still in the driveway. She is ok with selling the boats. I think she would be ok with selling the land, but finding a buyer is going to be the hard part. The tools and "stuff" can be pretty easily sold off and what can't be sold off can fairly easily be donated to a trade school or charity. This is not going to be easy and I have to decide how much "fight" to put into this. I personally don't care if I ever live in that town again. I don't know many people that stayed there after graduation. Most of us got out and stayed out because we knew that it was not going to be a place that we would ever be able to call home again.

I have no major love for Lottie. She was good to Daddy, but we had our issues. For the past 12 or so years, I rarely saw my father and it was due to her religious issues with the way that I live my life. She had no problem with my extreme loser ex, but for some reason, she didn't much care for the amazing woman that I am in a relationship with now. My partner is a good person who pays her bills, has always been good to me, and is about the nicest person that you would ever want to meet. I have no idea why Lottie decided that she didn't like her, but she decided to pull some holy roller, "You better get to the Lord." stuff on me and I told Dad that I love him, but I wasn't putting up with that stuff. He understood, but I still feel like she robbed me of my father in those final years. Putting that as much aside as I can, I am trying to figure out what to do about all of this estate stuff without getting lawyers involved, as they would eat through the money quickly and neither of us would emerge with anything in the end. I don't want to just roll over and let her have the entire estate just to keep peace, but then again, I am not sure how much hate, heck, and discontent the money is worth either.

Any insights would be appreciated. I am not sure what my father would feel was the right thing to do in this. He made the choice to not change the beneficiary info on the insurance knowing that I would get the money. He made the choice to write the will the way that he did splitting everything equally. He wrote the will just after Lottie pulled the holy roller stuff, so it wasn't like he didn't know that there were issues there at that time. I wish I had family to run this past, but I don't. With the exception of some distant cousins, I am pretty much alone in this world with the exception of my partner. I trust her judgement, but she doesn't really want to get in the middle of this one, which I understand, but I need some guidance.

I hate feeling lost.

Sorry for your loss. I was the executor for my mother's estate, you will need a lawyer to draw up paperwork. The will has to be filed and possibly taxes paid (I had to pay over $4,000 to the state of PA). Were the house and cars just in his name? Bank accounts? Anything in both names might just to go her or you may only get 1/4 (half of his half). You are right that the life insurance is separate. With the money you are talking about, you can afford a lawyer. Just be sure to discuss his fee upfront. I made the mistake of using the brother-in-law of a close coworker and almost fell over when he handed me his bill ($3,000).

 

[Lucky Bug]

The title of the house is under my father's name and my mother's name. When they divorced, she signed away her rights to the house as part of the settlement and there is a Quit Claim Deed too. So, Lottie's name has never been on the house before.

The land is deeded in Daddy's name only. The car, truck, and boats are also titled under Daddy's name only.

According to the lawyer who held the will and took us to probate it, everything needs to be retitled or redeeded into both of our names, unless we work out a settlement that would make it agreeable to only retitle or redeed the assets into just one party's name. We are also supposed to set up and checking account for the estate to pay out the last of the bills that are left from the hospital and the funeral home. I am hopeful that the money that was in his private savings will cover all of that. He had no outstanding loans and no credit card debt. Other than basic utilities for the house, insurance premiums, and taxes, he owed nothing.

According to the insurance company and everything that I have read about the life insurance, the money goes to whoever is listed on the policy. If the primary beneficiary is deceased and there is not contingent beneficiary, then the money would roll back into the estate of the insurance policy holder. Being that Daddy listed me as a contingent beneficiary, all I have to do to claim the life insurance is to provide them with a copy of a death certificate for my ex-stepmother and that will clear the way for them to recognize me as the rightful beneficiary.

 

[DebbieB]

The title of the house is under my father's name and my mother's name. When they divorced, she signed away her rights to the house as part of the settlement and there is a Quit Claim Deed too. So, Lottie's name has never been on the house before.

The land is deeded in Daddy's name only. The car, truck, and boats are also titled under Daddy's name only.

According to the lawyer who held the will and took us to probate it, everything needs to be retitled or redeeded into both of our names, unless we work out a settlement that would make it agreeable to only retitle or redeed the assets into just one party's name. We are also supposed to set up and checking account for the estate to pay out the last of the bills that are left from the hospital and the funeral home. I am hopeful that the money that was in his private savings will cover all of that. He had no outstanding loans and no credit card debt. Other than basic utilities for the house, insurance premiums, and taxes, he owed nothing.

According to the insurance company and everything that I have read about the life insurance, the money goes to whoever is listed on the policy. If the primary beneficiary is deceased and there is not contingent beneficiary, then the money would roll back into the estate of the insurance policy holder. Being that Daddy listed me as a contingent beneficiary, all I have to do to claim the life insurance is to provide them with a copy of a death certificate for my ex-stepmother and that will clear the way for them to recognize me as the rightful beneficiary.

I would get the life insurance money in your hands and if they ask about it, say it's none of their business. Then deal with the rest of it with an attorney.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

I know you are seeking advice, but you need an attorney, each state is different and some states require different things and have different rules. Because there is a will, some of the general state law is superceded, but not all.

In the end, regardless of the cost, you need to hire an attorney, look to see if your company offers initial legal advice or discounted legal advice (many do).

 

[Darcy03231]

Sorry for your loss.

Your attorney is right in that life insurance is paid to the beneficiary outside of the estate. I wouldn't share it with your step-mother. She'll continue to draw the pension and I assume she's not planning on sharing that with you.

As far as the assets go, is it possible to divide them up so its fair and then you can each do what you want with your assets? If Lottie wants to keep the house, is there enough in other assets (land, boats, cars, savings) for you to get in order to offset the house? If there is, this may be the best way to handle it. That way she can do what she wants to with the house and you can sell off your assets if you don't want them.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

My thought would be, especially if you get the Life Insurance money allow Lottie to keep the house and either the car or the truck. Everything else to you and sell it all off.

 

[Lucky Bug]

I have already taken my coin collection that Daddy had stored away in a safe deposit box. It is the product of both my grandfathers and my father saving coins away for me. Lottie knew that the collection was mine and I told her that I was taking it home. She had no quarrel with that. That was not spelled out in the will, but she knew that it was mine because Daddy told her. Also, the only thing that I asked for that was his before he died was his gun collection. I wanted to make sure that these weapons are going to end up in responsible hands. Daddy made a point of telling Lottie that I get the guns, so she knows that I will be taking those too. Since my father's passing happened so quickly, I was not prepared to bring all of those guns into our house being that we are raising a toddler and most of the weapons do not have locks and we have no locking storage for the weapons. I left the guns there for now in the locked up gun cabinet. The only people that might would even consider taking anything from the gun collection is Lottie's granddaughter, but I really doubt that she will mess with them at this point. She works in law enforcement and has always seemed to be a good kid.

When I came home, I also brought my stamp collection. I had looked for it during previous trips, but had been unable to find it. Lottie knew that was mine too and had no problem with me taking it. I have some figurines, mostly Disney, and a few other personal items in the house still. I have never taken them, but I know that now is the time to get them out of there.

When I left the house last weekend, I left with absolutely nothing done yet in estate settlement other than taking the will to be probated. We did not have the death certificates yet, so we couldn't do much of anything without those. I am the one that called about the life insurance policies. There were 7 policies and only 3 of them were active. All three are owned by the same company, so I would imagine if the first 2 policies have the same beneficiary info that the third will follow suit. I have not told anyone what I have learned about the beneficiary information yet. I don't plan to until I have made the claim and have the money in my hands either. I am waiting for the third policy's info to come back before I make the claim, so that I can claim them all at once, if they all are indeed mine.

I am trying to be as nice and as noncomittal about things as possible for the moment. I am saying a lot of "it will all work out" and "it's going to be ok, we will make this work" sort of statements. I want to keep this as nice as possible until I get the guns and my "junk" out of the house. Actually, I would love for this to stay nice all the way through, but I fear that won't be possible.

 

[clh2]

Sorry for your loss.

I would also look into getting the services of a lawyer. You are just wanting to make sure that your dad's written intentions are carried out. Most likely do not know the laws in the county were your dad lives. And - while it may cost a little bit - it will save you a lot of hassle making trips back and forth, missing work etc.

Good Luck!

 

[cabanafrau]

My thought would be, especially if you get the Life Insurance money allow Lottie to keep the house and either the car or the truck. Everything else to you and sell it all off.

I agree.

I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you have many happy memories of your dad to warm your heart and comfort you.

Lottie was his wife for 18 years, that's pretty significant -- and apparently they were fairly happily married to boot. Even if you don't wind up precisely with 1/2 of the estate, it sounds as if it really is not a hardship to you. If you truly expect people to respect your choice of significant other, it's surely good karma to honor your father's choice.

 

[Janepod]

We went through virtually the exact circumstances when my FIL died a few years ago. His wife (DH's stepmother), who previously seemed so sweet, turned into a money grubbing monster. It was awful. You do need to consult an attorney as every state is different.

However, what is constant: 1. life insurance payouts are outside the estate and 2. the stated beneficiary is the beneficiary (or, if beneficiary is deceased, his or her heir.) So take the life insurance out of the equation. It's not part of the estate.

Your job as (co-)executor is to settle the estate. You have to pay outstanding debts and distribute property. As difficult as it sounds, you're going to have to sell your father's assets to do that. It's kind of you to not want to make Lottie move out, but it's not realistic.

We did not need to re-deed or re-title anything. We sold assets (house, car, boat) and put the proceeds into the estate account. I am very surprised to hear the attorney told you to do that.

I am very sorry for your loss.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

I agree.

I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you have many happy memories of your dad to warm your heart and comfort you.

Lottie was his wife for 18 years, that's pretty significant -- and apparently they were fairly happily married to boot. Even if you don't wind up precisely with 1/2 of the estate, it sounds as if it really is not a hardship to you. If you truly expect people to respect your choice of significant other, it's surely good karma to honor your father's choice.

I agree with all of this. You need to put your feelings for your step mother aside. She was married to your father for 18 years. Like you, she lost somebody she loved. Unlike you, she is facing the loss of her life as she knows it as well. She knows she may very well lose her home and half of everything in it. She knows she is going to have to come up with money to stay there or have to move. That's a huge thing to deal with on top of everything else.

Tread lightly with her, make sure you are fair about everything and in my opinion that would include splitting the life insurance policies. You yourself said you are getting it because your dad procrastinated. Do with it what you know he would have wanted to have done with it and take care of the women he loved.

Now this does not mean I think you need to give her half of the money and walk away from everything else, it means I think you need to take EVERYTHING and split it down the middle. That means the house and everything else needs to be sold or donated. If she wants to remain in the house then let Lottie work up a deal with you. Maybe that will mean she turns everything else over to you including the money, maybe it means she will come up with the money and buy you out but at least honor and respect your father memory by handling things the right way instead of the "legal" way.

 

[runwad]

OP my advice if you get legal counsel, tell him you want an engagement letter. This is a contract that you sign that will spell out the attorney's fee's. Don't walk in there and start talking and have him do work and then be surprised at the end with a big bill. Have that all spelled out in writing before the work starts.

If you get the life insurance policies would that pay out be about equal to the house,cars & boats? Or maybe you can get it so it's as equal to the two of you as you can. Maybe she keeps the house and you get the life insurance policies, cars, boats. I don't think you need to tell her about the policies but to keep it simple and hassle free would you be ok if with the policies you could get your 1/2 that way? Can you understand that? I can't think of how to say it more clearly. The whole estate process is just a huge drag I'd want to just get it over with as fast as I could.

 

[Lucky Bug]

Ok, I put out a request for info on a lawyer. He is the father of a friend from high school and I believe he does estate law, so at least I know he has a good reputation. At the very least, he can point me in the direction of someone other than the attorney that Lottie and I had to use to probate the will.

I wish that I could say that I was financially well off, but I am not. I live paycheck to paycheck and so does my partner. We have a lot of bills and are still holding onto some property that needs to be sold, but in this economy, we are going to take a bath on it if we do sell it. We ran up some credit card debt in the past couple of years due to several circumstances that had to do with doing the right thing and taking care of family.

The money that I am looking at getting from the life insurance will pretty much get me completely out of debt and pay off the credit card debt that my partner ran up too. After that, there will be nothing other than the knowledge that we are free of that debt and will only have to deal with mortgage payments, utilities, insurance, taxes, childcare/education expenses, and only one vehicle payment. This will be a blessing, but there will be nothing left unless I do go after what is "mine" in the estate.

My father knew that I had financial struggles, especially after what we have gone through in the past couple of years. He knew that I love what I do, but I will never get rich doing it. He knew that I love our little one and that I want to give her the best life possible and that it's going to be a struggle to make that happen. We were not planning on ever being parents, but God decided otherwise.

Basically, if I choose to fight for what is "mine" in splitting the assets, it's going to be for the future of the little one. The money will be placed in an account to grow and be there to help raise her along the way. I never intended on being a parent of a toddler in my mid-forties. I didn't live my life like I was ever going to be a parent, because it just wasn't going to accidentally happen. However, it did happen in our lives. She is a wonderful blessing, but we were not financially prepared for all that has happened to us over the past couple of years. I wouldn't change a thing about the decisions that we made to be there for the little one, but if I had ever known that a child was going to come into our lives, we would have spent less money on annual blowout trips to WDW and more on savings.

Seeing some light at the end of the tunnel is a wonderful thing. I realize that this is tempered by what is most likely going to be the reality that Lottie has to face, but really she doesn't have any business being in that big house. She should be moving into an active senior or assisted living type facility. She has issues with depression, arthritis, fibromyalgia, and spinal degeneration. She has had 3 very bad falls in the past 6 months, that have caused some nasty wounds, luckily no broken bones. I do worry about her and I worry that her children won't be as proactive as they should be about making her see that she does need to be taken care of more than what she is going to have available to her if she remains in that house alone.

Please folks, don't get me wrong, I totally respect the fact that Daddy was happy with Lottie. He was married to my mother for 19 years. He was married to my ex-stepmother for 8 years. He was married to Lottie for 18 years. I am glad that the third time was the charm for him. I saw how miserable he was with my mother and with my ex-stepmother. I know that no marriage is perfect, but overall, I know that he was happier with her than with the others, so I made the decision to keep away for the sake of peace. He worked hard all of his life and the last thing he needed was that sort of unnecessary drama. My father and I got along very well, but I do wish that I had been given more opportunities to "be there."

Forgive me for rambling. I didn't take my nap this afternoon, so I am pooped. I have needed a nap everyday since he died. My sleep pattern is totally messed up. That doesn't help in this process either.

 

[DMRick]

The insurance policies have nothing to do with the estate. Why would she get her half that way, when they are hers in total, as is half of the estate? That's a lot to ask someone to give up IMO.

If you can sell the boats and all but one car and his persoanl items (tools, etc) and that comes to about what the house is worth, it would seem you would keep that money and she gets the house and of course the pension.

O

If you get the life insurance policies would that pay out be about equal to the house,cars & boats? Or maybe you can get it so it's as equal to the two of you as you can. Maybe she keeps the house and you get the life insurance policies, cars, boats. I don't think you need to tell her about the policies but to keep it simple and hassle free would you be ok if with the policies you could get your 1/2 that way? Can you understand that? I can't think of how to say it more clearly. The whole estate process is just a huge drag I'd want to just get it over with as fast as I could.

 

[Lucky Bug]

Buy out estimates:

$1750 for the Cadillac
$3800 for the Sierra
$1000 for the Carolina Skiff
$150 for the boat trailer for the skiff
$250 for the Rivercraft canoe
$7000 for the land
$3,000 for the savings
$1,500 for 1/4 of the joint checking (which was his money only)
$60,000 for the house

That comes to $78,450 and that doesn't include the sale of his tools, books, and other belongings.

Even if I were to split the life insurance money with Lottie, it would not be enough to cover buying me out of my half of the estate. I had bounced around the idea of splitting the life insurance money with her until I did come the the realization that she will continue to draw his pension and she will be able to file for his social security benefits, so it's not like she isn't going to have income. Daddy had only $100 less a month coming in during his retirement than he had when he worked. He did pretty well for himself with savings, investing, and being a worker in a time when companies took care of their employees.

 

[runwad]

The insurance policies have nothing to do with the estate. Why would she get her half that way, when they are hers in total, as is half of the estate? That's a lot to ask someone to give up IMO.

If you can sell the boats and all but one car and his persoanl items (tools, etc) and that comes to about what the house is worth, it would seem you would keep that money and she gets the house and of course the pension.

To keep it simple and be done with it. Just thinking if the estate is worth 200,000 her 1/2 is 100,000...if she's getting 75,000 from the insurance policies would she be ok with getting another 25k from the sale of something. Just thinking that's simple,that's all. I'm not judging if she wants the policies and 1/2 the estate she is well within her rights. Just saying if it were me I'd want it over with as painless and hassle free as possible. Waiting for things to sell just drags it on and on and on. But what do I know maybe the estate is worth 500,000 then I guess it's a different ball game and maybe worth a little bit of hassle.

 

[Janepod]

Your father was of sound mind when he set up his estate, right? He wanted you to have all the life insurance plus half the estate. Find a way to get to that -- put you, your partner and the child first. This can mean a much better life for you. Lottie is already taken care of.

 

[YetanotherMouseFan]

Please know you have my deepest sympathies with your loss. I agree with several PP: get a lawyer in the place your dad lived. It will be well worth the expense for the guidance through the whole thing. I was the executor for my mother's estate (my parents died within 5 weeks of each other). Luckily, mom had made out a will about 2 weeks after dad died. I hired the lawyer she used for her will, and he baby-stepped me through the whole process. Things you don't think of, like having to show survivorship at the bank to access the SafeDeposit box, filing the right papers at the right time for taxes, etc. After my brothers and I chose a few things we wanted, we sold the rest at auction on the attorney's advice. It made every thing much simpler. If, as you say, she probably won't be able to keep up your dad's house as it needs to be, it might be a kindess to her not to have to, and to live daily with the memories of her life that is now gone.