Security Concern

[MamaG]

We just got home from the Disney Wonder on the Mexican Riviera and this board really, really helped me to plan for the trip. I found out about the meetups and fish extenders just before we left so missed the chance to do that but a door just down from us had them.

We were so excited and Disney really does it up!!! The thing is...we had a very frightening situation involving a 23 year old man stalking my 15 year old daughter and eventually, our entire family and he found her (and other teens that stopped going) in Vibe.

He tracked her to our cabin, banged on the door after midnight looking for her, stalked her in the pool, Quarter Masters video place, gift shop and approached my husband aggressively on our way to dinner. He followed us...it was so frightening and we were told by security that it is Disney protocol to give access to adults with mental disabilities to children's areas (e.g. Vibe, Oceaneer's Lab) with request from their family. No doctor's note or validation.

Needless to say the last half of the trip was ruined as we sequestered ourselves and cancelled the spa and other events.

We loved the family we met at dinner and my son adored the lab. We were going to book another cruise and get involved with all the super fun and wonderful Dis'ers here...but now we are pretty rattled and terrified.

What can we do? Has anyone else had this issue? Who from Disney did you call? We filed a complaint and spoke to head of security on board 3 times. Nothing really happened as they weren't sure what to do either and the stalker as it turns out, is related to the guy running the special group.

Now I wonder what that man will do or what info he might be able to get from us from the cruise. Do you know if access to baggage tags can be had by non crew members?

I'm just so freaked out.

 

[maria-fan-22]

That does sound scary… It would be interesting to see why a 23 year old with enough mental disability to be allowed in vibe would be able to have free run of the ship? From my experience families with children who wold have a mental disability would escort that child with them at all times just to make sure they don't get into trouble.

 

[MamaG]

Yes we didn't realize he was 23 until he confronted my husband on the way to Animator's Palate. Until then we just thought he was someone's young son. That's when the head of security got involved and told my husband about their policy. The man had even ordered from the bar!!!!

I think he was let in with a "staff" shirt, but then later on his own...the staff seemed very confused and hadn't considered this happening. He was supposed to be escorted by another person from autismontheseas thereafter, but we ran smack into him walking out of our stateroom the next morning...alone. And my daughter was alone in our room...where I'm sure he was headed.

I'm sure this policy was designed for minors who just need a lower activity level like perhaps an 11 year old child with mental capacity more suited for Oceaneer's Club.

My big fear is that another young girl will be stalked or worse and personally that no cruise is now safe as they use all lines and we really wanted to use Disney where kids can have so much fun.

I feel pretty hopeless and I don't know where else to go as this was our first cruise. It is looking more and more like it might have to be our last which is terrible

 

[luv2sleep]

How incredibly frightening! Did they make an attempt to at least talk to the family? Seems like they should have at least done that and then banned him from the teen and all kid club areas.

Can you call DCL and report this incident?

I would be vey upset about this.

 

[kcashner]

I sent you a PM.

DCL's handling of this situation is very different from their actions when a "normal" 17 year old decided to grope my young teen daughter on one of our cruises. We were VERY pleased with the way our situation was handled (it didn't hurt that the boy and his brother were already well known to security!)

I think that DCL was afraid to take a stand about an individual with a mental "disability" regardless of how inappropriate his actions were. And I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. No guest has the right to act in a way that ruins another guest's vacation regardless of mitigating issues.

Now, explain to me why he is allowed to order alcohol if he is so immature as to need to be in a teen program.

 

[MamaG]

The first time they said they were calling autismontheseas staff. The head of that group actually sent the stalker (Dennis) to find us!!!! That's when he got right up chest to chest with my husband and told us he was 23 but had autism.
He was supposed to them be sequestered but was out again...we went to security again and the very next day found him just doors from our own by our elevator. And we had just left our daughter alone!!

I cancelled our appt and we had a big meeting with security who said they would once again talk to the group, but also said the head of the group complained that I called Dennis a "stalker".

Turns out it is his father and so I question the bias. I don't know if this man can control himself, so really the full blame goes to autismontheseas and the coordinator (his father) who put a 23 year old with lack of control with teenagers and then refused to intervene.

I wish I could count on Disney to protect us really, then it wouldn't matter if austismontheseas refused to control dangerous adults. I think the autistic children and their families are fine...and actually probably some of those young girls might also be in danger.

 

[luv2sleep]

Was there other security on board to go to? Just baffled why this kid was pretty much allowed to get away with this stuff. It is doubly concerning that his dad was one of the ones in charge. Once I figured that out I would hope there was someone higher up to go to.

 

[Disney Dreams]

First, welcome to the DISBoards! Sorry you didn't post on the meet thread. It was fun having familiar faces throughout the cruise!

It seems like a situation in which Disney has a very fine line to walk. They are trying to accommodate an adult with a disability and at the same time, provide your family with a wonderful vacation experience.

It is certainly a unique situation.

I think Disney cruises are as safe as any other cruise. It was an unfortunate set of circumstances that this particular special group was on the same cruise as your family (and ours) and that this particular man crossed your family's path.

I would definitely write to Guest Relations at DCL to let them know about your displeasure with the policy of a 23 year old with a disability being able to have access to the kid's clubs, but also realize that this is probably such a unique occurrence it may not trigger a change in policy.

I would also talk with your daughter and make sure that she really understands what a mental disability is and why this person is a different type of situation -- for her own future comfort and "radar."

I hope some of these thoughts help. I am sorry your family had an unnerving time during what should be a wonderful week. I am happy nothing actually happened.

As for "information," did you leave your bags in the hall in front of your room last night with luggage tags?

- Dreams

 

[Hokeysmoke]

Here's DCL's "Security Information" web page. Not very impressive. Both links are dead.

http://disneycruise.disney.go.com/security/

 

[TrySomethingNew]

The first time they said they were calling autismontheseas staff. The head of that group actually sent the stalker (Dennis) to find us!!!! That's when he got right up chest to chest with my husband and told us he was 23 but had autism.


This is the part of the post that says a lot. A man that is chest to chest (meaning adult sized and strong) with 15yo's father and who has boundry issues and social interaction/appropriateness deficits (due to autism) should not be allowed to have free reign after proving his inability to understand the boundries. It would be like any other ADULT stalking a KID. On a cruise or off, autism or not, it is not OK for that behavior to continue. Remember, that your DD was a stranger to this adult and likely did not encourage this behaviour.

Autismontheseas must be an org that has been around for awhile and my guess is that they are usually successful in having a great time and the individuals involved are usually ok - the adults supervising and the kids/adults that are autistic. I think that you probably had a unique combination of a supervisor (dad of autistic man) that did not hold up his agreement of keeping him supervised, and an autistic adult that was particularly challenged in this situation.

Sorry you had such a negative experience.

 

[disneymagicgirl]

I wonder if you could get ahold of contact info for someone at autismoftheseas that is above Dennis' dad to file a complaint. Sounds to me like he may need to be fired.

 

[Chicogirl]

I'm mother with an autistic child, and as such I can tell you this was not proper behavior by the father or the son. Disney should not have let this go. What is more acceptable, hurting someone's feelings by calling them a stocker (and that is what he was) or the possibility of your daughter getting hurt.
I would send a letter to Disney and list ever time he bothered your family, explain what you went through. Also I would write to Autism of the Seas, and send the same letter. Not exceptable.

 

[AmandaRG]

I wonder if you could get ahold of contact info for someone at autismoftheseas that is above Dennis' dad to file a complaint. Sounds to me like he may need to be fired.

This would be my suggestion as well. If this man is on their staff, there is no telling how many others might be subjected to his son.

 

[jessa07]

I'm mother with an autistic child, and as such I can tell you this was not proper behavior by the father or the son. Disney should not have let this go. What is more acceptable, hurting someone's feelings by calling them a stocker (and that is what he was) or the possibility of your daughter getting hurt.
I would send a letter to Disney and list ever time he bothered your family, explain what you went through. Also I would write to Autism of the Seas, and send the same letter. Not exceptable.

Exactly what I was going to say. I have 24yo autistic brother and my parents would NEVER let that type of behavior continue....if that would have happened on land, he'd be arrested!!

 

[Lynne M]

This was absolutely a failing on the part of DCL's security. The way this situation was handled tells me that they don't have a clear policy in place for their staff to follow when an incident like this occurs. It sounds like the security staff was very unsure of what to do, and afraid of offending the autism group.

In the end, it doesn't matter what the young man was capable of understanding, or doing, or what the situation with his father was. It's the cruise line's responsibility to provide a safe, comfortable environment for ALL of their passengers, and they failed miserably here.

I'm certain that there are standards of passenger behavior listed in some paperwork that we all sign when we book a cruise with Disney. I'm also certain that an adult male passenger repeatedly, aggressively pushing their attentions on an underage female is a crystal-clear violation of their standards of acceptable passenger behavior.

There should have been an agreement signed with the group that stated that all passengers are required to follow the cruise line's standards of behavior, and that those passengers who are unable to do so on their own must be escorted at all times. Repeated violations will result in the passenger being required to remain in their cabin for the duration of the cruise.

There. Simple, clear policy, easy for security to follow, and something for them to point to when the head of the group argues that his son is being unfairly treated. If the group is unable to keep the young man from harassing, stalking, following, other passengers, they need to understand that he will be spending the cruise in his cabin.

 

[luv2sleep]

Exactly what I was going to say. I have 24yo autistic brother and my parents would NEVER let that type of behavior continue....if that would have happened on land, he'd be arrested!!

Exactly! Stalking is a crime! What's worse is that this was an adult stalking a child! Disney seriously can't do better than this in terms of security especially when it comes to the safety and sanity of a child? After experiencing Disney in general and reading about what a top notch operation DCL is I am shocked that this was not handled better.

 

[HowdyHeidi]

Is autism on the seas a business or a charity?

I also just want to agree with those that said that this is a very unique situation, and although it needs to be addressed with DCL, I am not sure any kind of broad generalization should be made.

 

[Dramamama]

Autism on the seas is a travel agency.

 

[Grandma4ever]

First I want to say how sorry I am that this was your experence. DCL did have a fine line to walk but the autistic's man behavior was not acceotable. His father should have stepped up and assisted his son in understanding the soicial expectations. I am a social worker in the field of developmental disabilities and can tell you that what happened is the exceptions rather than the rule.

We have been on 9 DCL cruises and each has had folks with disabilities but they were always supervised or very well behaved. Here are my suggestions:
1) Write to DCL and list what occured each and every day of the cruise. List the activities you missed due to your need to be present to intervene when this young man showed up. Be as detailed as you can be but try to keep it to the facts.
2) Write autismontheseas as well. Explain how the lack of proper supervisor caused your daughter to feel frightened and how it restricted the whold families movement about the ship. Provide them with a detailed list of every encounter with the young man. Again try to keep it to the facts.
3) If you do not get a response from autismontheseas I would call or write the BBB to file a complaint that the individuals that cruise with the agency are not properly supervised. If you can find out what agency certifies Autismontheseas and write a letter of complaint to them.
4) last and most important I think you should book another cruise. DCL is the very best vaction I have every had. I understand why you would be unsure that this is a wise decision but I would not expect to have any additional issues of this nature. Be sure to join the cruise meet thread and hopefully get your children together with some others on line even before the cruise. That way they know other kids up front and will not be alone will out and about on board.

Again I am so very sorry that your experence was not the best due to the failure of this young man's father to supervise and assist his son to manage his actions. I would guess that his son was not a paid member of the group that his father was responsible for and was just traveling with dad while dad worked. That might explain way he was not with the group. It is just wrong all the way around.

 

[jenelabri]

I googled "Autism of the Seas" and one of the first things listed is a facebook page for the group. It shows pictures from the disney cruise (I saw a birthday picture of the mentioned "Dennis") and under info it gives a link to the Autism of the Seas webpage:

http://www.alumnicruises.org/Autism/Autism_Home.htm

On their webpage their is a "contact us" section. I would DEFINITELY contact them.

My best friend has an autistic son and when I let her read this forum she was mortified. In her opinion if somebody had never met an autistic person and Dennis was their first encounter then people might assume everyone with autism is like this and that is not the case. Her suggestion was that the Autism of the Seas group should be striving to be sure they are sending out the right message and they obviously were not. Hope you can at least get an I'm sorry. You deserve that and then some.