School sued after telling a students parents that student is a lesbian

[cardaway]

I have to side with the school on this one. If she wanted things to be a secret she should have been more discrete with her behavior.

If the this was the school breaking into her locker or any other kind of privacy issue, then I would side with her. She lost all right to privacy when she decided to display her affections in public.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

I guess I'm having a tough time understanding why there was a lawsuit about this? I would think the student would have a tough time proving malice--she broke the school rules several times with PDA. Surely, she had reason to believe there might be some punishment, possibly involving her family. And I don't see how she could reasonably expect "privacy" on her choice of partner when the issue is PDA. I understand about people keeping their sexual preference private from certain individuals (such as parents), but in my experience, such a person would have a bit of discretion. I mean, if you honestly thought Mom or Dad would kill you, wouldn't you be a little circumspect in a public school? You never know if it's the one day your mom is going to swing by because you forgot your trumpet or whatever!

Now, if the school acted with malice, that's a different story, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that. To use another example, if a girl showed a belly ring at school, would the school be remiss in assuming Mom knew about it? It's possible Mom doesn't, but how would the school know that?

I think this is just another sad example of how sue-happy this nation is getting.

 

[Beth76]

I don't know about other people but tattling on a friend or classmate is the last thing that would occur to me.

We don't know that the principal set out to "tattle" on the student. I'm just saying he's human and things are said. We can't all walk around on eggshells around mothers. What about the thread a few weeks ago where the poster (Transparant I think) was upset because she told someone who told someone that her daughter was pregnant and this daughter hadn't yet told her mother. Oy! Unless you tell specifically tell someone not to tell your mother (or anyone else) I'm sorry, the blame lies on you.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No they would have likely said "your child was making out"

Just because the whole world knows your secret doesn't mean your mother needs to find out, they need to tell your mother, or that they would even think to tell your mother. I've had a tattoo for 12yrs now. Everyone who knows me knows. Except for my Mother. I don't know about other people but tattling on a friend or classmate is the last thing that would occur to me. I never talked to my parents about who was dating who or talked to a friend's parent about it for that matter. Maybe it is irresponsible, but it's more common than many people realize.

But if you went to a primary or secondary school--where tattoos were strictly prohibited...and it was grounds for expulsion (since you can't remove the tattoo)....what exactly would they tell your parents?

"Crankyshank is being expelled"
"Why"
"Well--we can't tell you--but she did break a rule"
"What rule"
"We can't tell you"





[cardaway--I assumed that administration can access lockers at any time. But it has been a while, so maybe things have changed]

 

[2funny2c]

Again, plain and simple. She made the choices and now she doesnt want to accept the consequences of the many bad decisions she has made.

IF the girl would have followed the rules then this never would have happened. The school is not to blame for this student's bad decision making and shouldnt be sued.

More of the victimization mentality that washes away any form of responsibility and accountability.

 

[cardaway]

[cardaway--I assumed that administration can access lockers at any time. But it has been a while, so maybe things have changed]

True, but there still would be the reasonable expectation of privacy issue to deal with. That isn't the case with things that are done in the hallways.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I have to side with the school on this one. If she wanted things to be a secret she should have been more discrete with her behavior.

If the this was the school breaking into her locker or any other kind of privacy issue, then I would side with her. She lost all right to privacy when she decided to display her affections in public.

I keep going back and forth ,but I think I'm leaning towards the above..If she wanted it kept a secret,she shouldn't have been openly displaying it,especially with warning after warning.It's still a shame her parents found out that way.

 

[TnKrBeLlA012]

If it was such a private matter and the girl didn't want her parent's to find out then she should not be so public about it at school. Anyone who goes to school with her could tell their parent. That parent may know the parent's of the girl and some how word could get out. Maybe we are not getting the whole story. I wonder if the principle caught my daughter kissing a boy and I was told could I also sue? Maybe I don't want my daughter to face the humiliation or lecture I would give her at home? Maybe if they put this much effort into school work and not into political correctness we would turn out some better educated kids.

 

[RickinNYC]

That's why I'd like to know exactly what was said. Because there shouldn't be a different standard for someone simply because they're gay.

You're entirely correct Beth. But a little compassion and sensitivity goes a hell of a long way.

ETA: I'd actually side a little more with the school had the following not been in the article:

The suit also claims discrimination, contending that Nguon was suspended several times because she ignored orders by Wolf to stop hugging and kissing her girlfriend.
Heterosexual couples engaging in similar behavior weren't disciplined, the suit contends.

 

[Crankyshank]

I never said that school should say "We can't tell you". If you refer back to my previous post you will see precisely what the school should have said to avoid this issue. If the parent persisted and wanted to know exactly who the child was making out with a polite "talk to your child about the specifics" would have been sufficient.

I also didn't mean the school was tattling. As I stated earlier, I do not feel the school intended to cause harm. My comment was based on another student telling the parents or telling their own parents.

Bottom line is that the school didn't think before he spoke and a little bit of tact and sensitivity would have saved a lot of aggravation, grief, and money. It's not like homophobia is an alien concept or rare occurrence, even within the boundaries of the family unit. I don't think the lawsuit should have been filed in the first place, but I don't think the school was without blame in the situation

 

[Rock'n Robin]

Schools can search lockers if they have reasonable suspicion--a tip there is contraband inside for example, or a drug dog stops at the locker and starts to bark. They can't just go through them without some kind of reason.
Same for cars in the school lot--if they are doing a random check for parking passes and the security guard spots a rifle in the car, that kid is in trouble, but the guard cannot open the car door and have to find the rifle under a pile of stuff--it would have to be in plain sight. Again, the difference could be the anonymous tip--but in either case, police would be present when the locker was opened or the car searched.
Sorry, totally OT, just answering someone else's comment.
Robin M.

 

[Beth76]

You're entirely correct Beth. But a little compassion and sensitivity goes a hell of a long way.

ETA: I'd actually side a little more with the school had the following not been in the article:

That's why if the principal had blatantly told the mom (ie he knew the mom didn't know) I would feel differently. All I'm saying is that it's quite possible that he just threw around some pronouns without even thinking about it. Should he have thought about it? Maybe. But, is it really sue-worthy?

And that's just what the suit says. It doesn't mean that true. If it is true that's an entirely different issue of discrimination, not "tattling".

 

[brerrabbit]

I don't know the details of how the pricipal told the parent so I can't comment on that. As far as should the parent have their child outed by a principal, probably not but then again if you have been seen making out with other girls several times around school you are opening the door to anybody outing you. I was a substitute teacher at our local high school for a while and one of the rules strictly enforced was the display of public affection, between boys and girls. If two girls or two guys wanted to hook up and make out in the hall we were told to look the other way. I guess it was the fear of just this thing, that if anything happened or anybody complained it could result in a lawsuit. I personally think the situation may have been handled wrong but I don't think there is any need for a lawsuit. Where does it lead, people display gay tendencies often and in public and then if anyone talks about it and it gets back to the gay persons parent then they file a lwsuit. If a seventeen year old wants to act like and be treated like an adult then they need to be ready to accept the fact that their parents might find out and they need to be ready to face the results. And as for the fourty year old man whose parents don't know he's gay, I bet they have a pretty good idea. I know several families where the older adult child is gay and has never outed themselves to their parents, but believe me theri parents know.

 

[RickinNYC]

That's why if the principal had blatantly told the mom (ie he knew the mom didn't know) I would feel differently. All I'm saying is that it's quite possible that he just threw around some pronouns without even thinking about it. Should he have thought about it? Maybe. But, is it really sue-worthy?

And that's just what the suit says. It doesn't mean that true. If it is true that's an entirely different issue of discrimination, not "tattling".

Forgot to answer the OP question.

Nope, not sue worthy. But perhaps a little sensitivity training would be helpful for those involved.

And the girl in question should learn to obey her superiors. Lesbian or not. She shouldn't have been smoochin' around the school campus. Play by the rules and you don't get busted. So yeah, some form of punishment was warranted. I absolutely pray that the principal or whoever was involved didn't "out her" in order to do just that.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Schools can search lockers if they have reasonable suspicion--a tip there is contraband inside for example, or a drug dog stops at the locker and starts to bark. They can't just go through them without some kind of reason.
Same for cars in the school lot--if they are doing a random check for parking passes and the security guard spots a rifle in the car, that kid is in trouble, but the guard cannot open the car door and have to find the rifle under a pile of stuff--it would have to be in plain sight. Again, the difference could be the anonymous tip--but in either case, police would be present when the locker was opened or the car searched.
Sorry, totally OT, just answering someone else's comment.
Robin M.

Thank you (and cardaway) for the clarification. It's been a while, so I couldn't remember the specifics.

 

[leighe]

Don't parents have the right to know with whom their children are relating with at school. IF it was a fight--the students are entitled to know all parties involved, aren't they? So if it is PDA--same difference.

Actually, in our district our confidentiality policy states that we cannot discuss any student with a parent except for their own child. So if Johnny gets in a fight when I talk to Johnny's mother about it I can't mention who Johnny was fighting with. Now, obviously, the parent usually knows who it was that their child was in a fight with, making out in the hall with, etc., but I am not allowed to discuss the other student with the parent.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

I don't believe the lawsuit's contention that heterosexual couples were not disciplined. Perhaps they were not suspended--but perhaps they also stopped when they were told to.
Brerrabbit, I am so disgusted by what you were told to do. If my principal told us not to allow PDA but "look the other way" if it was a gay couple, I would have been in his office in a heartbeat. Isn't that in a way reverse discrimination against straight couples? If gay couples can make out, anyone can! If not, NO ONE CAN. Letting gay couples kiss because of a fear of lawsuits is insane. I am thinking this girl had that in her mind when she kept on committing the same offense with her girlfriend--"if anyone stops me, I'll say it's discriminatory".
BTW I have only seen a gay couple kiss once at my school--and it was outside in the courtyard, I just happened to be looking out of the window at the snow. It was a real quick kiss. If they had been outside my door kissing, I would have reprimanded them by saying "hey hey, that's enough," or "Come on, break it up". As it was I was kind of stunned (you see something new every day teaching in a HS, and there isn't a lot of "out" behavior like that from our gay students, it's kind of a rural suburb) and I wouldn't have yelled at them out the window!
Robin M.

 

[hugsquared]

As much as I know I should just walk away, here goes. I also agree with the school. And rest assured, you're only getting the kids side of the story...there may very well have been a greater "degree" of affection than just a little smooch. And when you walk around in a public place, in front of hundres or thousands of people, displaying your affection for anyone, you can not nor should not expect people to know whats a secret in your house or whats not a secret. I also have to assume that the girl knew what she was getting suspended for and that the issue of it being another girl may come up. That was her opportunity to talk to the principal or councelor or someone about the fact that her mom didn't know her "orientation". It all goes back to taking personal responsibility for your actions. Some people feel the rules apply to everyone but them and are the first ones to scream when they get busted. And if she really feared her mom and/or dad reacting violently, then I think she would have been more discrete in the first place. Honestly, to me, it just sounds like someone else looking for something to sue over.
Flame suit on!

 

[hugsquared]

Forgot to answer the OP question.

Nope, not sue worthy. But perhaps a little sensitivity training would be helpful for those involved.

And the girl in question should learn to obey her superiors. Lesbian or not. She shouldn't have been smoochin' around the school campus. Play by the rules and you don't get busted. So yeah, some form of punishment was warranted. I absolutely pray that the principal or whoever was involved didn't "out her" in order to do just that.

Me too Rick. That would warrent something like the sueing if he did it to intentionally "out" the girl.

 

[Chuck S]

Heterosexual couples engaging in similar behavior weren't disciplined, the suit contends.

Yes, that is where I have a problem, and I think that is the crux of the case. There isn't enough info in this particular article to make a determination of any worth, it sure would be interesting to be a fly on the wall during the court case.

You see, by this article you have to wonder, if a hetero couple were hugging and kissing, would the scenario have been different. Would an administrator have simply said "Stop it, that is inappropriate in the hallway." But being a same sex couple, would the scenario have been "Oh my, Jane and Joan are going at it, it isn't natural...we need to put a stop to it...call the parents."

I really don't think most parents have a clue, or really even care about PDAs between hetero couples in high school (I'm not talking the get a room type thing). But I think they'd be surprised at what their "child" actually does at school. But with a same-sex couple the identical type of behavior could garner a much more severe reaction. While I do have a "problem" with the school "outing" the student, it may very well have been unintentional..and those type of things can happen. The problem is...would the hetero student have been treated the same way.

So, maybe depending on the circumstances, the case has merit on the "outing" aspect. But it definately would have merit if hetero cases of PDA are treated, and documented, differently than same-sex PDAs