Say Good Bye to Maelstrom....A 'Frozen' Ride is Definite

[jcnewton]

I don't really care if kids are in WS, Innoventions, or hanging out in the parking lot for that matter. But if I'm having to bob and dodge and stare at 3 hour lines in Norway...you better believe I'm skipping that whole thing. I might've wanted a Helly Hansen jacket, but to management.....it seems my $ isn't worth as much as the princess crowd.

 

[ahoyle]

Where did this 50 to 100 million figure come from? Unless they are completely tearing down the ride and starting from scratch, thats an insane figure to come from a retheming. You can build a ride like transformers from scratch for 100 million. For a 100 million, this should be their biggest addition since Everest...no one is expecting that, are they?

Personally, I'm expecting something like the mine train themeing, on the existing boat track. Something I ride and say, "that was cute and well done, but should be a little longer".

 

[Donna3271]

Kids aren't welcome in World Showcase? Seriously?

Plano girl,
Off topic, but ITA. My kids LOVE the World Showcase at Epcot, and stopping at all the Kidcot Fun Stations… and Duffy is there!

 

[Cinderella16]

Lazy. It's just lazy.

Look, we know that princesses churn an incredibly high rate of merch. But there's still a Y chromosome out there, last time I checked (hard to make little princesses without it, btw).

And you can marry characters to tech to make it fun and educational - and still generate merch. They just have to try. And want to invest.

Here's one straight out of one of my boys' mouths that we tossed around for fun after EPCOT Dec '12:

WALL-E as the Figment of robotics - Wonders of Life converted to Wonders of Robotics. WALL-E as the guide

They had dozens of excellent ideas: the best being Wall-E guiding you through practical robotics applications in a fun way in the queue to a ride - with the queue giving actual viewpoints of the mechanics and robotics of the ride - while it's operating

Who doesn't want to see how a ride works?

And then actually ride it?

That's just from a 10-year old.

I know that may seem silly to some, or a stretch to implement. But to a lot of kids (incl. mine), the premise of the 80's EPCOT would still work just fine this day and age

Can Disney hire your son? A Wall-E attraction at Epcot would be amazing!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Can Disney hire your son? A Wall-E attraction at Epcot would be amazing!

The problem is what wouldn't wall-e do? Even if it was the single greatest thing in Disney history...where would it fail?

That's the whole problem...including this cheap, poorly thought out frozen wedge being driven into EPCOT.

 

[clsteve]

Can Disney hire your son? A Wall-E attraction at Epcot would be amazing!

He would love it!

Until they sent him to Shanghai for 12 years.......

 

[MonorailCentral]

Love your son's idea, clsteve. Not sure if the casual/average fan would be excited about it, but maybe if Wall-E's robot friends happened to look like Anna and Elsa...

 

[clsteve]

Love your son's idea, clsteve. Not sure if the casual/average fan would be excited about it, but maybe if Wall-E's robot friends happened to look like Anna and Elsa...

Hah! good point.

But to your and Cinderella16's points - I just think it's a cop-out that the EPCOT of the 80's wouldn't play to todays kids.

Disney's just not trying.

Lockedoutlogic and others have been carrying the EPCOT banner for years and I consider myself a bit of an EPCOT purist as well.

But, it doesn't seem like youth attendance at the Smithsonian is dropping - quite the opposite.

Now, in no way am I saying EPCOT needs to be a museum.

Heck, one of the best things they've done recently (IMO) is Sum of All Thrills. And that was an afterthought.

What could they do if they tried....?

 

[skier_pete]

I wonder if Epcot fans would have an easier time stomaching Frozen if they actually announced some stuff that was...ya know...Epcot-like. Such as a new pavillion, or a re-do on Imagination.

It's like "It's been 7 years since the last new attraction (not counting Test Track re-do) and THIS is what we get?"

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I was an EPCOT-touring kid of the 80's and I remember having a grand old time at that park. For me, the thrill was just being on vacation in DISNEY WORLD (!). I certainly wasn't saying, "Meh, it could use more princesses". I don't know if today's kids have more in their everyday lives and are therefore more jaded, or if their parents (and in turn, Disney) just don't give them enough credit and assume kids couldn't possibly like anything that doesn't have a pie-eyed character slapped on it.

For the record, and this is a point Disney seems to be overlooking in the last several years, not every kid is into princesses. I definitely wasn't. My thing was anything animal related (I died a little on the inside the first time I saw Nemo had become the focus at The Seas). For another kid it might be space... or trains... or robots... or...

Disney could base an attraction on just about anything if they put enough effort and creativity into it. I'm convinced they could create a ride on a dump truck that explores waste removal services and still have a hit on their hands so long as it's fun and captures the imagination. But I guess it's easier to keep using characters to re tell the same old stories everyone already has in their DVD players.

 

[clsteve]

I wonder if Epcot fans would have an easier time stomaching Frozen if they actually announced some stuff that was...ya know...Epcot-like. Such as a new pavillion, or a re-do on Imagination.

It's like "It's been 7 years since the last new attraction (not counting Test Track re-do) and THIS is what we get?"

That's an interesting point.

A little forethought, some give and take, may have gone a long way.

That would mean a strategic plan was in place for EPCOT, of course.

I just hope that the princess creep isn't the strategic plan...

 

[Jing]

I was an EPCOT-touring kid of the 80's and I remember having a grand old time at that park. For me, the thrill was just being on vacation in DISNEY WORLD (!). I certainly wasn't saying, "Meh, it could use more princesses". I don't know if today's kids have more in their everyday lives and are therefore more jaded, or if their parents (and in turn, Disney) just don't give them enough credit and assume kids couldn't possibly like anything that doesn't have a pie-eyed character slapped on it.

For the record, and this is a point Disney seems to be overlooking in the last several years, not every kid is into princesses. I definitely wasn't. My thing was anything animal related (I died a little on the inside the first time I saw Nemo had become the focus at The Seas). For another kid it might be space... or trains... or robots... or...

Disney could base an attraction on just about anything if they put enough effort and creativity into it. I'm convinced they could create a ride on a dump truck that explores waste removal services and still have a hit on their hands so long as it's fun and captures the imagination. But I guess it's easier to keep using characters to re tell the same old stories everyone already has in their DVD players.

Right there with you. I would not have been caught dead in BBB princess crap and loved EPCOT. I do remember running into a futuristic Donald there and loved getting an impromptu photo with him - no lines for that sort of thing in the long-long ago 80s

I don't think the experiences as they were when I was a kid would impress/inspire kids today, but if the spirit behind them could be executed with modern technology, I feel it would be well received.

 

[wallrock]

I wonder if Epcot fans would have an easier time stomaching Frozen if they actually announced some stuff that was...ya know...Epcot-like. Such as a new pavillion, or a re-do on Imagination.

It's like "It's been 7 years since the last new attraction (not counting Test Track re-do) and THIS is what we get?"

Being one of those Epcot fans I'd honestly state that it would depend on what was going in.

If the announcement included an overhaul of the pavilion to have it cover the rest of Scandinavia with a principal focus on the geography and culture of that region, and Frozen being a secondary/minor attraction I might have been more receptive. I was against the Three Caballeros going into Mexico, but wasn't as concerned as I am with Frozen because those three birds don't dominate the pavilion. Here it just seems they're scrapping the pavilion in favor of a Frozen themed area, and it concerns me that the rest of the park may be subject to the same treatment.

An update on Imagination or an equivalent certainly wouldn't have hurt, but not enough to detract me from still being somewhat miffed about Frozen being installed in the first place.

I know we don't agree. I just don't think Frozen belongs there, but it would have been an easier pill to swallow.

 

[skier_pete]

I was against the Three Caballeros going into Mexico, but wasn't as concerned as I am with Frozen because those three birds don't dominate the pavilion..

The thing with Mexico is that the 3 Cabelleros was designed as a travelouge for Mexico. The ride is totally in keeping with the spirit of what those characters represent. (Go watch the sequence from the movie.) It's about teaching Americans about the Mexican culture.

That's why I was OK with the idea of the Frozen characters teaching people about the Norwegian/Scandavian culture. However, a purely Dark Ride telling the story of Frozen isn't in keeping with the "spirit" of the park, which is to entertain and educate. Perhaps we are being misled and things will still be kept with a bent towards real-world knowledge, but I no longer think so.

Don't get me wrong though - I am NOT that upset by this. Upset is my dog being run over by a car. Upset is my parent in the hospital. Frozen in Norway is at best disappointing, but in no way life changing. (Except for maybe my daughter, who is now super-excited to get down there once it opens - so I guess it worked pretty well there.)

 

[ssphillips]

RIP Maelstrom. Won't miss outdated movie though...

 

[wallrock]

The thing with Mexico is that the 3 Cabelleros was designed as a travelouge for Mexico. The ride is totally in keeping with the spirit of what those characters represent. (Go watch the sequence from the movie.) It's about teaching Americans about the Mexican culture.

That's why I was OK with the idea of the Frozen characters teaching people about the Norwegian/Scandavian culture. However, a purely Dark Ride telling the story of Frozen isn't in keeping with the "spirit" of the park, which is to entertain and educate. Perhaps we are being misled and things will still be kept with a bent towards real-world knowledge, but I no longer think so.

Don't get me wrong though - I am NOT that upset by this. Upset is my dog being run over by a car. Upset is my parent in the hospital. Frozen in Norway is at best disappointing, but in no way life changing. (Except for maybe my daughter, who is now super-excited to get down there once it opens - so I guess it worked pretty well there.)

As mentioned before we'll just have to disagree, except for the life changing part. The conversion of the pavilion won't cause me restless nights.

 

[Planogirl]

It's not life changing for me either even though I've been reacting so strongly. I have however spent a lot of time at WDW and in particular Epcot and that is over with now. I can't continue to pay for a product that disappoints me so much which is definitely a strange feeling. Norway meant a lot to me since my heritage is so wrapped up in that country and even a sanitized out-dated Disney version was pretty amazing. I feel fortunate that I've had the chance to enjoy it for so long but I don't think that I can stand to see it destroyed. Different strokes and all of that.

I could have handled Frozen worked into it but it went way beyond that. I should have known that Disney wasn't interested in Norwegian culture when the restaurant turned into princess central but I remained hopeful. It just wasn't meant to be.

Anyway with Frozen signifying Norway and chainsaws signifying Canada, all kinds of interesting things could change.

 

[goob9954]

Give Figment back to us. Take out Captain EO and put an all newly made 3-d Frozen short movie? ANYTHING BUT DESTROY NORWAY!!! UGH!!!.

Hey now, there's no reason to take out Captain EO, Epcot is a better park because of Michael. In all honesty I see the point you're making. There's no reason to take out a history lesson that may otherwise go unheard for something that could fit in better somewhere else.

 

[skier_pete]

It's not life changing for me either even though I've been reacting so strongly. I have however spent a lot of time at WDW and in particular Epcot and that is over with now. I can't continue to pay for a product that disappoints me so much which is definitely a strange feeling. Norway meant a lot to me since my heritage is so wrapped up in that country and even a sanitized out-dated Disney version was pretty amazing. I feel fortunate that I've had the chance to enjoy it for so long but I don't think that I can stand to see it destroyed. Different strokes and all of that.

I could have handled Frozen worked into it but it went way beyond that. I should have known that Disney wasn't interested in Norwegian culture when the restaurant turned into princess central but I remained hopeful. It just wasn't meant to be.

Anyway with Frozen signifying Norway and chainsaws signifying Canada, all kinds of interesting things could change.

For you - it is life-changing. Maybe save your money from a couple of Disney trips and go to ACTUAL Norway instead. Epcot has never,ever been a substitute for the real thing.

Also, chainsaws are more representative of Canada then Celtic Rock. I've seen rivers full of logs outside Ottawa and lumber factories and forests of new growth replanted trees in the Pacific Northwest. I've never seen a Celtic Rock band. The timber industry in Canada is the second largest in the world. (I understand people missing Off Kilter, but I hate people saying "lumberjacks aren't Canadian" because that's just wrong.)

 

[Andrew015]

I think what's most baffling to many of us is that Disney is doing away with things that are, by and large, quite popular (Maelstrom, Off Kilter, etc.), yet has no problem letting things like Wonders of Life pavilion, Imagination, etc. - decay. It's no surprise to any of us that Frozen is coming to Disney and replacing an existing attraction. It's just frustrating that what is being replaced wasn't broken in the first place, we are net zero additional rides from where we were prior to the announcement, and we still have parts of EPCOT that are in dire need of attention.

1.) Remove "bad" attraction, replace with "good" attraction = win
2.) Remove "good" attraction, replace with "good" attraction = no further ahead
3.) Remove "good" attraction, replace with "meh" = frustrated beyond belief


Option #1 is out the window. The best we can hope for is #2, but I'm preparing myself for #3. This feels like a presidential election - hundreds of millions spent in campaigning and fundraising, 300 million people to choose from, and these two clowns are the best options that we could come up with????