Sad Story from One Who Trusted without Checking!

[LisaS]

Yes, Lisa...that was the first incident with the DVC owner in question. I sent that renter an email yesterday to re-check, but haven't heard back from her, but it is definitely the first situation.

Based on her recent post, she's on a Disney cruise now. I hope she gives us an update when she gets back. It would be good to hear that her 11-month ordeal had a happy ending!

 

[castleri]

I would be concerned that this person may have already spent the money and may not have it to wire on Monday. If she does in fact have points, you might be better off having her transfer the half that you paid for and forget the rest of the transaction. I hope it all works out for you.

Since Western Union is a red flag, pay pal has scams, money orders can be faked, and a personal check can bounce, what is the best method of payment?

I have taken personal checks if there is time for them to clear before I reach a deadline on cancelling a ressie without penalty but my favorite is a cashier's check. I suppose that could be faked also. I have never transferred points so dodn't know what I would do in that case. Once the transfer is done you have no control over those points any longer unlike with a reservation so if you don't get the money up front you're out of luck. Am very glad that so far I have enough points that I don't need to look for more and only rent out the ones I am unable to use or that will pay for passes or a cruise, etc.

 

[wdwstar]

I believe the OP is doing the right thing, by making things right. Asking for her money back instead of the points is probably her best option. The OP cant trust this person (PP- problematic) now, Who could? who knows if the points were distress points and cant be transfered, or the pp transfer the points into the OPs wrong use year or the wrong amount of points (less of course, what was agreed upon). I understand fully if the pps mother passed away, but somewhere, somehow, from the time pp received the money there should have been a phone call to the OP in honoring her promise to the OP.

Its not about money its about TRUST, HONOR and PROMISE

PP if you are reading this thread Do the right thing and HONOR your PROMISE to the OP, so she can regain your TRUST

OP

 

[diznyfanatic]

...
Since Western Union is a red flag, pay pal has scams, money orders can be faked, and a personal check can bounce, what is the best method of payment?

In my opinion only, the best way to receive funds given today's current environment is via a Postal Money Order.

Yes, they can still be faked, BUT you can take them directly to the Post Office to cash and they will verify whether it is a genuine Postal Money Order in order to cash it, and you will know it BEFORE you let go of your property, make a reservation or deposit counterfeit funds that will wreak havoc with your bank account.

Just my .02, YMMV.

I also just wanted to add my sincere hopes that everything works out okay with this transaction. I'm really sorry the OP had to deal with this.

 

[dumbo71]

I'm sorry this happened to you!! I don't mean to be a cynic, but really....what are the chances that someone would lose their wallet and their mother on the same day?? I mean, if she had known her mother had passed, she might be in shock enough to THEN lose her wallet...but the chances of that happening the other way around are pretty slim.

It sounds to me like a scammer was caught, and is now fearful. I think posting your story on the dis was probably the best thing you could've done. I do think you will get your money back on Monday...I think she is running scared.

Since you have her name, have you tried whitepages.com to try and find her home address and phone number? It's amazing how many people you can find thru them.

Good luck, and don't beat yourself up too much....hindsight is 20/20.



Beca

I'm in complete agreement with this. Lets really think this through. Coincidences seldom happen and certainly not like this. You MAY get your money back but it will only be because of your posts here and the efforts of WebmasterDoc. For Doc to do that on vacation makes the guy a gem in my book.

While I agree with Jimmia for the most part I do agree somewhat with Greenban. We don't need the rent/trade police but we do need posters banned IF it can be PROVEN they scammed someone. So far there isn't proof of that yet.

STAY TUNED.

 

[SAGE]

Since Western Union is a red flag, pay pal has scams, money orders can be faked, and a personal check can bounce, what is the best method of payment?

I would prefer to send a US Money Order - (by express post and request a signature with delivery).
The money orders from my bank are partially computarized and must be made out by the bank with the recipients name. It safe for the DVC member and for the renter of the points.

 

[DMKEDM]

Hi, everyone:

My typing fingers are wearing down! I've gotten a zillion PMs from folks wondering who the person is with whom I had my problems...these people are, quite understandably, nervous about rental plans they are making.

I need everyone to understand that the Disboards rules require that I NOT "name names." I can tell someone if a particular person they're dealing (or planning to deal) with is the person with whom I had some trouble--kind of a "reference check"...but I can't just "name a name."

So far, everyone I've explained that to has been very understanding and has PM'ed back with the name of the potential renter they're considering dealing with...but if you-all who are reading this know up front that I can't just "tell you a name," but can only respond to a specific inquiry about a specific name, it'll save both you & me some extra typing and some extra PMs!!

Thanks!

 

[Santa]

Hi, everyone:

My typing fingers are wearing down! I've gotten a zillion PMs from folks wondering who the person is with whom I had my problems...these people are, quite understandably, nervous about rental plans they are making.

I need everyone to understand that the Disboards rules require that I NOT "name names." I can tell someone if a particular person they're dealing (or planning to deal) with is the person with whom I had some trouble--kind of a "reference check"...but I can't just "name a name."

So far, everyone I've explained that to has been very understanding and has PM'ed back with the name of the potential renter they're considering dealing with...but if you-all who are reading this know up front that I can't just "tell you a name," but can only respond to a specific inquiry about a specific name, it'll save both you & me some extra typing and some extra PMs!!

Thanks!

for a quick resolve.

 

[JimMIA]

Well, we've wandered pretty far off topic with the discussion of what form of payment is best...but worse than that, we're talking about the wrong thing.

What form of payment is best? ANY form of payment from an honest remitter is fine. I know a lot of DVC owners who routinely take personal checks (which would be at the bottom of the list for most posters on this thread, I suspect), and they've never had a problem.

And conversely, any imaginable method of payment is subject to counterfeiting, bouncing, fraud, etc.

The method of payment is only an important issue if you think the other party may rip you off. And if you think that...why are you renting to them in the first place???

The question of some sort of feedback mechanism is the same conversation. That's a method of firmly slamming the barn door after all the horses have been stolen. Why not just avoid that problem altogether?

I think a much more useful discussion would be ways by which both owners renting points, and those renting from them, can assure themselves that they are dealing with a reputable person.

The only real protection anyone will ever have in a rental transaction is trust -- and trust is earned, not given. There is no substitute for due diligence -- and there is also no excuse for not doing your homework.

Another critical element of a successful rental transaction, IMHO, is that both parties clearly understand all of the implications and ramifications of the rental transaction. In fact, most of the problems we see with rental transactions are caused by misunderstandings, not by evil fraudsters lurking behind every computer keyboard.

I really think that would be an interesting discussion, but I think it would be better on another thread.

 

[robinb]

I'm so sorry to hear about your problem! I have my fingers crossed that you will receive your $$ back tomorrow. I vote for an update in this thread along with a change to the Subject to reflect on which page the update appears.

I always encourage people to rent from established members of the DIS. It's not that a Newbie isn't trust worthy ... many are. Howeber, I think a bigger, genuine post count means that poster is less likely to be a scammer. I also think it's best to rent from someone who has a contract. A contract will spell out exactly what the rental agreement is: when payment is due, the dates of the rental, when the points will be transferred, cancellation policies, etc. The confusion that JimMIA mentions is minimized with a easy to read contract/rental agreement.

 

[lovinthemouse]

I am so very sorry you had to go through this. But, thank you for sharing your experience. This may really save someone. I hope you get to take your vacation. Good Luck to You.

 

[bsusanmb]

I feel very sad for your situation. I know that feeling myself.

I had a very positive experience renting points from the DIS boards, but I did a really dumb thing on ebay and bought a vacation at AKL for $800 and lost that money. When you finally realize that you have been scammed, the blood just drains out of you...I hope that you get your money back, but the likelihood of that isn't favorable.

 

[LIFERBABE]

To the OP: I hope everything works out for you and that you get your money back very quickly!

If you are referring to the situation I'm thinking of, the renter in that case posted just yesterday that she "stayed at BCV this week" so it does sound like things worked out OK in the end. But I do remember reading her posts about her rental experience and she went through 11 months of stress and uncertainty. She paid 50% up front but didn't receive the confirmation in the mail and couldn't reach the owner for over a month (full voicemail inbox and full email inbox, and some time later the owner's phone was disconnected). The confirmation letter finally turned up after 2 months and it indicated that someone else was actually the owner of the points (a relative, it turns out). The "owner" wanted the renter to make the final payment through Western Union but I think the renter refused and they settled on another payment method. This ordeal played out over an 11-month time period during which the renter really wasn't sure she would have a reservation when she arrived at BCV but it appears now that everything worked out OK for the renter.

So assuming I'm right about this being the same "owner", the transaction was completed successfully, but was an extremely stressful experience for the person renting the points.

Three cheers for Doc!

I remember this situation vividly. That renter posted at least twice concerned about her rental status. Her last post, when the lady wanted her to send Western Union, was so disturbing to me, I PM'd her to offer help. I am so glad to hear that all went well, but I do not wish that on anyone and the fact that the PP is still here and still acting shady is even more disturbing.
OP I wish you a swift resolution to this and you are right to take extra caution.
If this is the same PP, It is sad that one person is bringing the R/T board down.

 

[drakethib]

I hope this works out for you.

I have always been leary of rentng points from people with low post count. Of course, someone with high post counts could steal as well.

I have had points transfered before but will only do so if the renter allows paypal payment by credit card. Still not fool proof but I can contest the charges if the transaction does not happen pretty quick.

 

[Minniespal]

Very sad that this happened to you

 

[robinb]

So assuming I'm right about this being the same "owner", the transaction was completed successfully, but was an extremely stressful experience for the person renting the points.

Oh my! I just dug up those threads using Google.

 

[castleri]

The thread is now back I believe and since it was brought back by the person with the points to rent hopefully does not violate the rules of the board. Don't know if she has read this thread however.

 

[robinb]

The thread is now back I believe and since it was brought back by the person with the points to rent hopefully does not violate the rules of the board. Don't know if she has read this thread however.

I always do things the hard way !

 

[Parkhopper13]

Thanks for the informative post. I will certainly be more aware and avoid Western Union transactions.

 

[JimMIA]

I have been involved in both of these situations behind the scenes, and I have not seen any behavior by the person renting/transferring points that has appeared fraudulent or unethical. I have extensive experience investigating real fraud cases, and neither of these situations have ever looked fraudulent.

What I have seen is a series of occurrances which have made two very level-headed customers seriously concerned about losing their money -- leading to their threads here. Don't get me wrong -- I wouldn't rent from this person on a bet. But my gut feeling in both situations has always been that this person has been dealing with some personal issues, rather than being out to rip someone off.

In the first case, all of the issues were eventually worked out, and the customer enjoyed their vacation last week.

In DMKEDM's case, when I confirmed that the same person was involved in both situations (at that point, I was not aware the first situation had been successfully completed), I notified Doc, who immediately attempted to contact the person by both email and PM.

In less than three hours, Doc posted here that he had been in touch with the party and that a resolution had been agreed to. Doc also subsequently posted that no DIS policies had been violated and that no action was warranted by the DIS.

I am hopeful that the person in question will follow through with her promise to refund DMKEDM's money, and that this situation will also be resolved favorably to all parties.

As I've said previously, however, I think we all need to realize that there is a huge difference between problematic and unethical/criminal.