Responsibility/Accountability

[sweet angel]

Why does it seem to be such an uncommon/unpopular thing for people to take responsibility for their actions?

For example, if I shoplifted an item from a store and was caught, I would expect to have some form of penalty. I would not blame it on the store for having the item out and available for theft, I would not blame an inability to control myself, etc. If I HAD an inability to control myself, I would still expect to be held accountable and hopefully would then seek treatment for my inability to control myself.

Why does society make excuses for everyone these days and hold no one accountable?

Discuss.

 

[Michie]

I don't know angel, me and the sisters had breakfast this morning and were discussing the very exact same thing.

You know it is so easy when you become an "adult" to blame your mistakes on your childhood, your mother worked, your mother stayed at home, you were the middle child, you were the youngest blahblahblah. You know there comes a time when you have to stop blaming others.

I really did not answer your pondering did I?

 

[sweet angel]

Nope, but it's nice to know that someone else understands.

A friend once said to me, "Everyone has their cross to bear. Some of us choose to pick them up and carry them; others choose to drag them behind them." I thought that was pretty profound at the time.

 

[DawnCt1]

Why does it seem to be such an uncommon/unpopular thing for people to take responsibility for their actions?.

Why does society make excuses for everyone these days and hold no one accountable?

Discuss.

I don't think that it is uncommon or unpopular to expect people to take responsibility for their actions. I also don't think that society as a whole attempts to make excuses. I think we tend to look for reasons why some people make the choices that they do. It doesn't mitigate the circumstances but it does shed some light on the situation. I think its human nature to be curious as why things happen as they do.

 

[freckles and boo]

I don't think that it is uncommon or unpopular to expect people to take responsibility for their actions. I also don't think that society as a whole attempts to make excuses. I think we tend to look for reasons why some people make the choices that they do. It doesn't mitigate the circumstances but it does shed some light on the situation. I think its human nature to be curious as why things happen as they do.

I think you and I are from different planets politically, but I totally agree with this statement. If we don't try to understand behavior we don't stand a chance at changing it.

 

[sweet angel]

For the record, this is totally separate and apart from Dawn's thread. This is more to do with the attitude I've seen many people in recent years take -- that nothing is their fault. Look at all the frivolous lawsuits. People always have a reason for why something is NOT their fault, yet no one seems to want to own up and take responsibility for it.

Two examples that come to mind:

1. The kid that fails in school and turns around and blames the teachers/school/parents.

2. People that don't get penalized for drunk driving because they claim the breathalyzer was not properly calibrated, the bartender should have KNOWN to stop serving him/her, or any number of other reasons.

Just two quick examples.

I simply don't understand why people are not held accountable and refuse to take responsibility.

 

[DawnCt1]

For the record, this is totally separate and apart from Dawn's thread. This is more to do with the attitude I've seen many people in recent years take -- that nothing is their fault. Look at all the frivolous lawsuits. People always have a reason for why something is NOT their fault, yet no one seems to want to own up and take responsibility for it.

Two examples that come to mind:

1. The kid that fails in school and turns around and blames the teachers/school/parents.

2. People that don't get penalized for drunk driving because they claim the breathalyzer was not properly calibrated, the bartender should have KNOWN to stop serving him/her, or any number of other reasons.

Just two quick examples.

I simply don't understand why people are not held accountable and refuse to take responsibility.

#1 is indeed frivolous and I don't think it is particularly typical. Most people who fail tend to take their F's continue to fail or do better.

#2. That's a legal issue, and given the consequences that they will be facing; jail time, inability to get to work, loss of job, loss of means to support themselves or their family, it is clearly understandable why they would mount a good defense. It doesn't mean that they wouldn't deserve all of those consequences but in our system of justice, we don't expect defendants to be "suicidal" either. I doubt that any of us, not that any of us would be of course, arrested on a DUI would walk into court and say, "yes your Honor, lock me up and throw away the warden."

 

[freckles and boo]

I think you hit the nail on the head with regard to lawsuits. We have a real problem with frivolous and unreasonable lawsuits and I think that is a result of the many lawyers acting in their own best interests. Lawyers are supposed to be officers of the court and committed to finding the truth. Most are too slimy to look at the truth. Schools are afraid of lawsuits, businesses are afraid of lawsuits, municipalities are afraid to fire bad employess because it impacts taxpayers - too many people see lawsuits as a way to line their pockets. When the legal system requires the losing party to pay all court and legal expenses of the winning party, fewer ridiculous suits will be filed. Now there is nothing to lose by going to court and giving it shot.

 

[sweet angel]

I doubt that any of us, not that any of us would be of course, arrested on a DUI would walk into court and say, "yes your Honor, lock me up and throw away the warden."

Obviously, I can't speak as to the law in every State, but if I'm not mistaken in NJ first offense is a fine and maybe a loss of license for 30 days. Why shouldn't a GUILTY party be expected to pay the fine and essentially "take his lumps"? Maybe -- just maybe -- the next time the person is faced with the decision to drink and drive, the person will make the right decision.

Again, that is just an example of the point I'm trying to make (seemingly poorly!).

 

[DawnCt1]

Obviously, I can't speak as to the law in every State, but if I'm not mistaken in NJ first offense is a fine and maybe a loss of license for 30 days. Why shouldn't a GUILTY party be expected to pay the fine and essentially "take his lumps"? Maybe -- just maybe -- the next time the person is faced with the decision to drink and drive, the person will make the right decision.

Again, that is just an example of the point I'm trying to make (seemingly poorly!).

Ct. laws are tougher than that. If one pleads GUILTY, it can result in a criminal record that can result in damaging future employment and worse yet, it triggers that gift that keeps on giving; SKY HIGH INSURANCE RATES that continue for up to 6 years. If the DUI was one lapse in judgement, for most people that close call would be enough to clean up their act.

 

[Fitswimmer]

There's a difference between motive and excuse. The motive behind an action can be used to help the offender realize the root cause of their bad behavior, but unfortunately in today's society the motive is more often used as an excuse instead of a way to get beyond the behavior.

We are a society of victims-I had a lousy childhood, I had a tough time in school, I'm a minority, My boss hates me, my teacher hates me...and it goes on and on.

In front of the treadmills at my gym we have a bank of TV's, all showing different channels. The day Ed Bradley died, I was watching CNN on one channel and Oprah on the other. Oprah was doing a program from a high school where the students were learning how they all had problems and everyone had something about their life that made it hard. On CNN, they were showing a retrospective of Ed Bradley's career. Listening to the litany of "my life is so hard" in my ear, I read the following on the screen on CNN. "The reason for my success is that I had parents that told me I could do anything." This was a black man who came up at a time when society did not accept that black men could be educated and succeed and ended up at the top of his profession.
Why weren't those kids at that High School being told how they could do anything instead of how many reasons they had to be victims???

 

[bicker]

For example, if I shoplifted an item from a store and was caught, I would expect to have some form of penalty. I would not blame it on the store for having the item out and available for theft, I would not blame an inability to control myself, etc.

It does seem logical doesn't it? A more WDW-related example are all the rationalizations we read for opportunistic behavior at WDW, defended by the transgressors with excuses like, "Disney makes so much money anyway."

People do what they do and make excuses because they "want" and because the feel "entitled" and because it is easier to "take" than comply with legitimate controls and channels.

Why does society make excuses for everyone these days and hold no one accountable?

I think to say that society does that is a bit unfair. Those folks make their own excuses, and try to avoid punishment by exploiting society's occasional tendancy to avoid conflict whenever possible.

 

[sweet angel]

There's a difference between motive and excuse. The motive behind an action can be used to help the offender realize the root cause of their bad behavior, but unfortunately in today's society the motive is more often used as an excuse instead of a way to get beyond the behavior.

We are a society of victims-I had a lousy childhood, I had a tough time in school, I'm a minority, My boss hates me, my teacher hates me...and it goes on and on.

In front of the treadmills at my gym we have a bank of TV's, all showing different channels. The day Ed Bradley died, I was watching CNN on one channel and Oprah on the other. Oprah was doing a program from a high school where the students were learning how they all had problems and everyone had something about their life that made it hard. On CNN, they were showing a retrospective of Ed Bradley's career. Listening to the litany of "my life is so hard" in my ear, I read the following on the screen on CNN. "The reason for my success is that I had parents that told me I could do anything." This was a black man who came up at a time when society did not accept that black men could be educated and succeed and ended up at the top of his profession.
Why weren't those kids at that High School being told how they could do anything instead of how many reasons they had to be victims???

Well put.

 

[freckles and boo]

There's a difference between motive and excuse. The motive behind an action can be used to help the offender realize the root cause of their bad behavior, but unfortunately in today's society the motive is more often used as an excuse instead of a way to get beyond the behavior.

We are a society of victims-I had a lousy childhood, I had a tough time in school, I'm a minority, My boss hates me, my teacher hates me...and it goes on and on.

In front of the treadmills at my gym we have a bank of TV's, all showing different channels. The day Ed Bradley died, I was watching CNN on one channel and Oprah on the other. Oprah was doing a program from a high school where the students were learning how they all had problems and everyone had something about their life that made it hard. On CNN, they were showing a retrospective of Ed Bradley's career. Listening to the litany of "my life is so hard" in my ear, I read the following on the screen on CNN. "The reason for my success is that I had parents that told me I could do anything." This was a black man who came up at a time when society did not accept that black men could be educated and succeed and ended up at the top of his profession.
Why weren't those kids at that High School being told how they could do anything instead of how many reasons they had to be victims???

I rarely see Oprah, but I actually caught most of this episode twice. Between working out and watching two shows at once you may have missed the message and purpose of the show. It was to show a diverse group of highschoolers that everyone, including the person you don't expect, has difficulties. It was also about responsibility and redemption - they called it a "social experiment" and at the end it was all about reconciliation and stepping up. There was a lot of apologizing to each other for verbal abuse, sexual comments, racial comments, and stereotyping of others. So in a way, it was very much about taking responsibility. I just don't think something like this will last in a meaningful way without lots of reinforcement.

 

[Luv'sTink]

When my brother was in prison for making and selling Meth, he had to go to counseling. During these counseling sessions the Counselor told everyone that it was their parents fault they were in the place they were in. My brother said he stood up and asked the Counselor how it could be his parents fault when he didn't start doing drugs until he was in his late 30's?? The Counselor didn't have an answer for him. He also told the Counselor that he was full of poo! He made the choice to do it and he was the one to blame. He didn't want to pay child support (that is another story) and knew selling drugs was a way to make money that no one could touch.

Today he has a home, a job, a girlfriend and pays his child support. He still doesn't believe it had anything to do with his parents, except that they were there to help him when he got out and wanted to straighten his life out.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I rarely see Oprah, but I actually caught most of this episode twice. Between working out and watching two shows at once you may have missed the message and purpose of the show. It was to show a diverse group of highschoolers that everyone, including the person you don't expect, has difficulties. It was also about responsibility and redemption - they called it a "social experiment" and at the end it was all about reconciliation and stepping up. There was a lot of apologizing to each other for verbal abuse, sexual comments, racial comments, and stereotyping of others. So in a way, it was very much about taking responsibility. I just don't think something like this will last in a meaningful way without lots of reinforcement.

In showing that all of them had difficulties, isn't it just pointing out victim identities? "Oh, so I can like the cheerleader now because she's a victim just like me!" Instead, why isn't the emphasis that we all have opportunity and the reason some succeed and others fail is the willingness to take advantage of that opportunity-despite being verbally abused and stereotyped. Now, everyone is a victim-instead of everyone learning how to find their self esteem in themselves and their own success, not in what other people say or think about them.

 

[sweet angel]

Luv's Tink, kudos to your brother for having the maturity to step up and take responsibility for a situation he created. More people should be like that (without the whole meth thing, of course...).

 

[freckles and boo]

In showing that all of them had difficulties, isn't it just pointing out victim identities? "Oh, so I can like the cheerleader now because she's a victim just like me!" Instead, why isn't the emphasis that we all have opportunity and the reason some succeed and others fail is the willingness to take advantage of that opportunity-despite being verbally abused and stereotyped. Now, everyone is a victim-instead of everyone learning how to find their self esteem in themselves and their own success, not in what other people say or think about them.

My impression was that they were trying to modify bad behavior by showing the students that they were all more alike than different. You can choose it see it as reinforcing a victim mentality, but it evolved beyond that. I think the intention was to change the high school's culture by humanizing each other and making the students think twice before they bullied or harrassed someone. Again, you must have missed the last part when they all took responsibility for their actions and made their apologies and pledges not to allow it to continue.

 

[KevinM]

I have found that many defendants try to blame their behavior on anything from parents to television. I have also found that most get these ideas from talk shows, news articles, and therapists/counselors.

The bottom line is that 99% of these excuses never fly in a court of law. The media will report heavily every time a defense like the above is successful, but they are very few and far between.

That being said, there are occasions when even the harshest skeptics (like myself) will review a life history and realize that some people never really had a chance, based on the conditions they were raised in and the behaviors of parents and/or guardians.

I've had this signature for years and I have the same thing inscribed on a plaque in my office.

Edited to Add - these observations refer to the criminal court system. The civil court system (in my experience) fails to recognize personal responsibility in many cases, which is why tort reform is desperately needed in many jurisdictions.

 

[sweet angel]

"We must reject the idea that every time a law is broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
--Ronald Reagan

At least I'm in good company with my thinking!