Refused entry with service dog

[eyehartdisney]

This is my state statute on Service Animals:

http://mn.gov/mdhr/yourrights/service_animals.html

It specifically mentions PTSD, and mental illness.

I shouldn't have to stop working, google a company, and decide if it's legit.

Legally, you'd be in violation of the law if you even asked what company they used to train the dog. You can only ask two questions: Is this a service dog, and what tasks the dog performs. You cannot ask what the person's disability is. You cannot 'determine' if it is a real service dog. Period. If the dog causes damage, the owner is solely responsible for the cost of damage, and frankly if one of the dogs similar to Cooper ever did cause damage, then he'd never get to be a service dog in the first place.

The reason they don't use a certification process is because of the variety of different disabilities that service dogs are used for, and each person with disabilities may need a variety of things. However, I agree with previous posters that there should be some sort of centralized certificate. The program that Cooper went through required all dogs to go through the Canine good citizen's program, something that I think should be required of all dogs in public, regardless of being service dogs, then at least there is a very low chance of the dog becoming aggressive.

As far as people getting vests and certificates off the internet, the same can be said of fake IDs and kids drinking. Of course people who are of legal age to drink don't want people faking IDs and drinking, that doesn't however, mean that someone should get the third degree about looking young. And you shouldn't complain about having to 'stop working' to 'deal' with people who use their ID legally.

 

[RitaE]

This is my state statute on Service Animals:

http://mn.gov/mdhr/yourrights/service_animals.html

It specifically mentions PTSD, and mental illness.



Legally, you'd be in violation of the law if you even asked what company they used to train the dog. You can only ask two questions: Is this a service dog, and what tasks the dog performs. You cannot ask what the person's disability is. You cannot 'determine' if it is a real service dog. Period. If the dog causes damage, the owner is solely responsible for the cost of damage, and frankly if one of the dogs similar to Cooper ever did cause damage, then he'd never get to be a service dog in the first place.

The reason they don't use a certification process is because of the variety of different disabilities that service dogs are used for, and each person with disabilities may need a variety of things. However, I agree with previous posters that there should be some sort of centralized certificate. The program that Cooper went through required all dogs to go through the Canine good citizen's program, something that I think should be required of all dogs in public, regardless of being service dogs, then at least there is a very low chance of the dog becoming aggressive.

As far as people getting vests and certificates off the internet, the same can be said of fake IDs and kids drinking. Of course people who are of legal age to drink don't want people faking IDs and drinking, that doesn't however, mean that someone should get the third degree about looking young. And you shouldn't complain about having to 'stop working' to 'deal' with people who use their ID legally.

Yeah. Comparing it to underaged drinking isn't really a valid comparison because legally establishments have the right to refuse alcohol service to people when they feel the id might be bogus, if they think the customer might already be overly intoxicated, or even if they just suspect that it is somebody over the age of 21 making the purchase for an underaged friend. In fact, if any of those things happen and it comes to light that the establishment DIDN'T refuse, then they are open to censure.

In the case of Service Dogs, public establishments are extremely limited in their rights to mitigate or refuse when they feel there is a violation occurring.

 

[mamacatnv]

I've always been of the opinion that the disabled community is doing themselves no favors by resisting a formalized certification or licensing procedure for service animals.

In fact, if I had a service animal that had probably cost me thousands of dollars and endless hours of training had been pumped into that animal to create a service dog --- I'd be pissed off to no end to see all these people around who use the disability law as a backdoor to get to bring their cute little pets all over the place, making the public resent and question me.

If states can manage to regulate handicapped parking, why cannot the same thing be done for service animals? One needs to obtain a permit for their service animal and all animals would have some sort of uniform ID, a vest, a tag etc.

OP I am very sorry this happened, I agree that I would take this up with the restaurant but I would not bring in an attorney, injustices occur all the time to all walks of life, its just a fact of life. Educating this establishment would be the goal IMO along with an apology to your Dad. A personal apology can go a long way when someone has been wronged due to ignorance

 

[ilovemk76]

I've always been of the opinion that the disabled community is doing themselves no favors by resisting a formalized certification or licensing procedure for service animals.

In fact, if I had a service animal that had probably cost me thousands of dollars and endless hours of training had been pumped into that animal to create a service dog --- I'd be pissed off to no end to see all these people around who use the disability law as a backdoor to get to bring their cute little pets all over the place, making the public resent and question me.

If states can manage to regulate handicapped parking, why cannot the same thing be done for service animals? One needs to obtain a permit for their service animal and all animals would have some sort of uniform ID, a vest, a tag etc.

OP I am very sorry this happened, I agree that I would take this up with the restaurant but I would not bring in an attorney, injustices occur all the time to all walks of life, its just a fact of life. Educating this establishment would be the goal IMO along with an apology to your Dad. A personal apology can go a long way when someone has been wronged due to ignorance

I agree with both of these.

 

[Wendy31]

I appreciate your dad & his service, & I'm sorry y'all were treated so poorly at this particular restaurant.

While one disability does not trump other disabilities, perhaps, like another PP suggested this could have been addressed much better by the restaurant - if there were, in fact, complaints by other patrons.

I also agree that people who have "pretend" service animals due to a great disservice to those w/ actual & trained service animals.

But I hope this doesn't discourage your father too much & that y'all will try other restaurants in the future!

Cooper sounds like a wonderful companion for your father!

Dogs can be so awesome & provide such needed services! Every time I watch this video for PSTD dogs, I get teary...

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIlPFRsseQ8

 

[Tozzie]

If states can manage to regulate handicapped parking, why cannot the same thing be done for service animals? One needs to obtain a permit for their service animal and all animals would have some sort of uniform ID, a vest, a tag etc.

OP I am very sorry this happened, I agree that I would take this up with the restaurant but I would not bring in an attorney, injustices occur all the time to all walks of life, its just a fact of life. Educating this establishment would be the goal IMO along with an apology to your Dad. A personal apology can go a long way when someone has been wronged due to ignorance

The ADA mandates service animals be allowed into most esablishments, they don't mandate Handicapped paking. States can make laws enhancing the ADA but they can't do less

 

[Viva Las Disney]

I've always been of the opinion that the disabled community is doing themselves no favors by resisting a formalized certification or licensing procedure for service animals.

There needs to be government certification. They put the ADA in place, they need to be held accountable so issues like these stop.

If states can manage to regulate handicapped parking, why cannot the same thing be done for service animals? One needs to obtain a permit for their service animal and all animals would have some sort of uniform ID, a vest, a tag etc.

When Disney was changing how they handled the disability cards, citing fraud as a reason, I had the same question. It seems like it would be very simple for the gov to come up with an official card rather than using an honor code that just encourages abuse and suspicion of the system. No one but the doctor/patient needs to know the reason behind the disability card or service animal card but just having an official card would not only do a lot to end abuse but also minimize problems like the OP's.

 

[Pixiedustaway]

I know absolutely nothing about the law. However, I know social media is a powerful thing. Use facebook and twitter to get other peoples attention. So sorry for what you experienced.

 

[mguilford1]

My suggestion would be to have newspapers and the TV report what happened. It gets the word out about the law and gets people talking about it. In our city a person sued because the owner wanted proof that the dog was a service animal.. It was then reported in the papers. I thought I knew what the law was, but what I did not know is that you can not ask for proof that it is a service animal, I thought the animals had tags or vests to wear. As a manager this can make things hard because on one hand you have a customer that needs the service animal, you have customers complaining because there is an animal in the store and then you also have people that lie and bring in their pets and they know all they have to say is it is a service animal. After I read the article I contacted the ADA for a copy of the Law and I then made sure that my associates also knew the law!

 

[Unas]

The ADA mandates service animals be allowed into most esablishments, they don't mandate Handicapped paking. States can make laws enhancing the ADA but they can't do less

Actually, ADA does mandate and regulate parking . . . Just as an example http://www.ada.gov/restribr.pdf

 

[Unas]

I've always been of the opinion that the disabled community is doing themselves no favors by resisting a formalized certification or licensing procedure for service animals.

In fact, if I had a service animal that had probably cost me thousands of dollars and endless hours of training had been pumped into that animal to create a service dog --- I'd be pissed off to no end to see all these people around who use the disability law as a backdoor to get to bring their cute little pets all over the place, making the public resent and question me.

Telling "the disabled community" what to do seems kind of patronizing . . .

Do you really want to set up a regulatory and enforcement system for all the entities that train service animals? The answers to the two permissible questions really will provide the information a business needs to know.

 

[jiminyC_fan]

The exact thing happened to my daughter. My grandson has a seizure response dog for uncontrolled seizures for the past seven years and was refused service in a restaurant. My DD normally travels with a copy of the law but this time she didn't have it on her. The epilepsy community friends and families posted to his wall. The trainer had a face to face with him. He has since apologized. We don't feel it was sincere but he apologized. It really isn't worth a lawsuit. Education to the law is key. I feel there should be a official card. It is getting out of hand now. Too many people want to take their precious dogs with them where ever they go. It isn't right. There has to be some accountability. It is getting out of control.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

This happens way too often, especially, with our vets that have PSTD. Your dad is protected under the disability act and I would scream loud to whomever would listen. I really am not a sue kinda person, but i would sue and then give the money to K9 for warriors or a charity your dad likes.

Recently, Daytona Beach Budget Inn called the cops on a veteran and is service dog. They refused to give him a room and degraded him. Disgusting!!! Businesses need a little push to refresh their memory about the ADA.

 

[summerblue]

I feel for your dad, I would definitely be unhappy since your dad's dog is a legitimate service animal.

I don't know if it is the same everywhere, but here service animals (not emotional support animals, which technically do not have to have any special training) have to wear either a collar or vest identifying them as service animals, people are also required to have a letter stating the animal is a certified service dog and is upto date on its shots. The owner and animal cannot be denied entrance anywhere.

Now emotional support animals, because they technically do not have to be trained CAN be denied entrance into restaurant , grocery stores, etc where there would be a reasonable health code concern. But they being an ESA means you can take them on planes, public transits, etc.

My mother in law has an ESA, which most of our local restaurants do allow inside, mainly because everyone knows her and the dog is well trained.

Withs ESA it is up to the individual establishment, but with actual service animals they cannot be denied.

 

[Planogirl]

I'm surprised that some people are against regulating service animals in any manner. Just about everything is regulated, some things admittedly way too much but completely not regulating these animals is surprising.

 

[mguilford1]

I feel for your dad, I would definitely be unhappy since your dad's dog is a legitimate service animal.

I don't know if it is the same everywhere, but here service animals (not emotional support animals, which technically do not have to have any special training) have to wear either a collar or vest identifying them as service animals, people are also required to have a letter stating the animal is a certified service dog and is upto date on its shots. The owner and animal cannot be denied entrance anywhere.

Now emotional support animals, because they technically do not have to be trained CAN be denied entrance into restaurant , grocery stores, etc where there would be a reasonable health code concern. But they being an ESA means you can take them on planes, public transits, etc.

My mother in law has an ESA, which most of our local restaurants do allow inside, mainly because everyone knows her and the dog is well trained.

Withs ESA it is up to the individual establishment, but with actual service animals they cannot be denied.

This does not make sense to me. The American with Disabilities Act is a Federal Law isn't it? So that means it is the same everywhere? I was told and read that you can not ask for a letter or card or anything else as proof. Also the animals do not have to wear vests, collar or tags. An owner of a service dog sued a local shop owner for requiring a letter or some sort of proof that the dog was a service animal. The owner of the service dog won and it was talked about in the paper. That is how I originally learned about the LAW.


When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.

 

[Hrhpd]

OP - what kind of dog is Cooper? I noticed on the PAT website that they have a picture of a Pit as a service dog. I have nothing against Pits and think the breed bans are ridiculous, however, if somebody walked in a restaurant with a Pit Bull, I can understand some unreasonable reactions by the other patrons.

You said you did a ton of work getting your father ready for this outing. When you made your reservation, did you mention you were bringing a service dog? I know you do not legally have to, but I have several friends with service dogs and they always call ahead to let the restaurant know they will be coming with a service dog. That way the staff is prepared (can look up the law if they have to) and set aside a table that will have room for the dog to be comfortable.

And this is just curiosity, but it has been bothering me. Why was the dog with your mother when the cops came? You said that your mom met the cops at the front door with Coooper. From my understanding with our friends, when on duty, the dog has to always be with the person he is trained for. Like I said, just a curiosity question.

Thank your dad (and mom) for his service!

 

[undertheradar]

This is a trained dog who has the documentation to back it up. The training took months, and was rigorous. As far as other patrons go, we asked if we could just be seated far away from them, as the restaurant is fairly sizeable. We were told we could eat out on the deck (it was raining.) And we did, in fact, provide documentation to the restaurant. It is not required by law, but frankly education is the better part of valor in this instance imo. This was a swanky restaurant, and I honestly think it was just a matter of 'standards' and 'keeping the riffraff out.' If at any point the management had been anything other than horribly rude, and cruel, I might concede this being a matter of ignorance, but it was one of the most humiliating things I've ever been through... and it wasn't even me, it was my father.

As far as comfort animal vs. service dog, comfort animals require zero training, and are only required to be admitted to where you live. All you need to do to get one is have a psychiatrist note. Cooper is a fully trained service dog. Miles apart. Even if he's a psychiatric service dog, that is protected under law. It is specifically stated in our state's laws, I am unsure if it is mentioned in the federal laws, but the cop said it was, so I would go with yes, it is.

If you were offered seating on the patio, then you were not denied service.

As for your Mom reading the law out loud in the restaurant so that the other patrons could hear it, didn't that add to the "uncomfortable situation?"

I would never advise taking legal advice from the police, they are not lawyers.

 

[aaarcher86]

Telling "the disabled community" what to do seems kind of patronizing . . . Do you really want to set up a regulatory and enforcement system for all the entities that train service animals? The answers to the two permissible questions really will provide the information a business needs to know.

No one is being patronizing. It's pretty easy to make up a BS answer to the two permissible questions for someone who wants to get their dog into an establishment. So yes, I'd like some kind of enforcement, or ability to ask for documentation of the dogs certification as a service animal.

I believe they're already provided with that when certified, so it's not putting undo burden on the training programs.

 

[DizBelle]

The problem is that we have an honor system in place when many people have no honor.

I would guess that most of the animals (more than 50%) we see out and about that are declared as service animals, actually aren't.