Really torn on adopt a family

[thomas998]

Do you have kids? Have you ever done anything that you think (or that someone else might think) would be bad a example for your kids? I know I have--several times yesterday even.

Yes, I do have kids but unlike yourself I don't do things that set a bad example for them. And I seriously doubt that you do anything you really believe is a bad example in front of them either... unlikely that even the worst parent in the world would truly think they were setting a bad example for their kids... that's the problem. Mom's on welfare and see nothing wrong with it... so kid does the same thing and sees nothing wrong with it.... same thing happens with domestic violence dad beats mom and see nothing wrong with it because he saw the same thing when he was a kid... and on and on the cycle goes.

 

[thomas998]

In our case we wouldn't have lost the baby... she just would have been raised as my sister for a few years (I was 8 when this baby was born) - well at least I hope so or would you not be willing to allow family to be the foster parents?

I wouldn't want to let the baby be raised by the same parents that failed to instill good judgement in their own daughter (as evidenced by her decision to have a baby she couldn't afford). I see that all to often when a mother is shown to be unfit the courts often let the mother's parent take custody when the better thing would be to put the kid as far away from the screwed up mom and the equally screwed up grandparents as possible.

I think if you looked at it from a more objective standpoint and ignored the fact that it is your sister you are using for an example you would probably see the dangers in enabling welfare families.

 

[gracie1]

Yes, I do have kids but unlike yourself I don't do things that set a bad example for them. And I seriously doubt that you do anything you really believe is a bad example in front of them either... unlikely that even the worst parent in the world would truly think they were setting a bad example for their kids... that's the problem. Mom's on welfare and see nothing wrong with it... so kid does the same thing and sees nothing wrong with it.... same thing happens with domestic violence dad beats mom and see nothing wrong with it because he saw the same thing when he was a kid... and on and on the cycle goes.

How do you know how long or if she is on welfare?? I mean, it's an assumption. You make it sound like you have the 'perfect' family and children

 

[gracie1]

So how long are you allowed to be in the system before you lose your kids? Can you not be on at all? I'm sorry but my sister had a baby at 18. Yes this was a poor choice and she screwed up. She got some help from WIC and some food stamps. She also got some help with day care at first.

Now that baby is a senior in high school. When many teens are complaining they can't find a job she is excelling at 2 (and not because she has to, she works for her landlord helping with the horses her landlord owns, and she works at an ice cream shop because she only helps with the horses a few days a week). She is confident responsible and a great kid. She is planning to go to a community college next year.

She also has a 9 year old little half-sister. Her sister is the child of my sister and BIL.

So should my sister have lost my niece because she couldn't afford her at first? BTW I would guess by the time my niece was 5 my sister was off most assistance. She may have gotten a bit more again when her husband (truck driver) lost his job for a while but I know she is not on any now.

Sounds like your sister raised a great kid

 

[thomas998]

That is quite a leap from requesting gifts on a giving tree.

And FWIW, you are wrong, the things I actually stated are not against the law. You can try to twist it to fit your argument, but you'd still be wrong.

You said, "not working to support your family isn't against any law"... the very definition of neglect is "failure to provide necessary food or shelter"... so when you can't provide those things you are guilty of neglect, whether it is willful or not doesn't change that.

 

[thomas998]

How do you know how long or if she is on welfare?? I mean, it's an assumption. You make it sound like you have the 'perfect' family and children

If you read the post by the person I was responding to, she said how long her sister was on welfare. So my only assumption is that the poster was telling the truth... you also missed my point, yes I have the perfect family and children... and most everyone believes that of their own family no matter how dysfunctional it might be.

 

[kamik86]

I wouldn't want to let the baby be raised by the same parents that failed to instill good judgement in their own daughter (as evidenced by her decision to have a baby she couldn't afford). I see that all to often when a mother is shown to be unfit the courts often let the mother's parent take custody when the better thing would be to put the kid as far away from the screwed up mom and the equally screwed up grandparents as possible.

I think if you looked at it from a more objective standpoint and ignored the fact that it is your sister you are using for an example you would probably see the dangers in enabling welfare families.

No actually I wouldn't, because you just got even further from anything I believe in.

My sister that I spoke of here is doing great for herself and her family. So is my oldest sister. I finished college and have a great engineering job and am now working on my masters fully paid for by my company (and am almost done ).

However there is one more in the family who is not doing well at all tends to drink do drugs find homeless boyfriends (I really don't know how she keeps managing this one) I won't get into everything but yeah I know what she does and can look objectively at it. The one who had a kid at 18 did well for herself and her children (both of them).

Oh and we were all raised by the same parents, with the same role models. Heck the DS2 (the one with major issues) and DS1 (no children but with a job) are only a year apart in age so they even had the same parents and role models exactly for most of their life. Yet what they choose to make of themselves is totally different.

 

[kamik86]

Sounds like your sister raised a great kid

I agree and now that I'm old enough and more aware of what happened (when I was 8 my parents didn't let me know most of the drama that was going on with my sister and although I knew she was pregnant when your 8 someone that is 18 seems plenty old enough for a baby) I honestly think having to keep the baby was the best thing for my sister. She stopped hanging out with friends all night and all the other not so great stuff I now realize she was doing and she took care of her daughter the best she could.

I knew a family of 3 kids with a pretty awful home life. The older two kids ended up in a gang and in jail but didn't have kids. The youngest one in high school had a baby. When she did her left totally turned around. She is the only one that graduated high school... and she did college as well. She did right by her child. I wonder if they took that baby away if she would have just continued on the path of her older siblings.

 

[crusoe2]

I just wanted to offer another perspective on the gift requests some kids put on their wish lists. And I haven't read nearly all of this thread - just don't have time at the moment. So I apologize if this has already been discussed.

I teach high school and many (most) of the kids I teach come from families that are struggling financially. Every year about this time, discussion turns to what they want for Christmas. I have learned that very often when these kids say they want something like an ipod, what they really mean is they want an mp3 player and any mp3 player will do. Sometimes they just don't know what the correct name of the device is and they ask for it by the brand name they do know. I actually found this out by accident when I discussed something I'd been wanting and found out they thought I was crazy to even consider paying for the brand name. Obviously this explanation isn't going to apply in every case. But I tend to think that, in some cases, the kids are just asking for an item by the brand name cause that's all they know to call it. When it comes to technology, that's perfectly understandable. It gets hard to keep up with what's what.

 

[kamik86]

I just wanted to offer another perspective on the gift requests some kids put on their wish lists. And I haven't read nearly all of this thread - just don't have time at the moment. So I apologize if this has already been discussed.

I teach high school and many (most) of the kids I teach come from families that are struggling financially. Every year about this time, discussion turns to what they want for Christmas. I have learned that very often when these kids say they want something like an ipod, what they really mean is they want an mp3 player and any mp3 player will do. Sometimes they just don't know what the correct name of the device is and they ask for it by the brand name they do know. I actually found this out by accident when I discussed something I'd been wanting and found out they thought I was crazy to even consider paying for the brand name. Obviously this explanation isn't going to apply in every case. But I tend to think that, in some cases, the kids are just asking for an item by the brand name cause that's all they know to call it. When it comes to technology, that's perfectly understandable. It gets hard to keep up with what's what.

Wow I hadn't thought about that... but now that you mention it even my nieces (that have iPods btw) will refer to most mp3 players as iPods. My husband has a zune he got for free one though a retail loyalty program at work and they (and me too to be honest) refer to it as an iPod.

 

[luvmy3]

You said, "not working to support your family isn't against any law"... the very definition of neglect is "failure to provide necessary food or shelter"... so when you can't provide those things you are guilty of neglect, whether it is willful or not doesn't change that.

It isn't against the law. And you seem to think not working means you can't provide. There are other ways, the use of gov't programs help one provide those basic needs. So, I will say it again, being unemployed and not supporting your family is not against the law.

 

[DisneyCowgirl]

Yes, I do have kids but unlike yourself I don't do things that set a bad example for them. And I seriously doubt that you do anything you really believe is a bad example in front of them either... unlikely that even the worst parent in the world would truly think they were setting a bad example for their kids... that's the problem. Mom's on welfare and see nothing wrong with it... so kid does the same thing and sees nothing wrong with it.... same thing happens with domestic violence dad beats mom and see nothing wrong with it because he saw the same thing when he was a kid... and on and on the cycle goes.

Well, I am human and I make plenty of mistakes and do bad things and behave poorly and sometimes my kids see me do it. Clearly you are better than all other parents out there and we should all send our kids to be raised by you.

 

[NotUrsula]

You know, it's all well and good to say that a child who is (by Thomas' definition) being neglected should be taken away and raised by better "parents", but then reality bites, and you have to wonder where you are going to find these better parents.

There are literally millions of former and present foster care kids who have experienced serious neglect and even abuse at the hands of foster parents; people who are being paid by the state to take care of them.

So, yeah, you say, let them be adopted, but the state pays adoption-related costs, too, and if you flooded that many available adoptees into the system you would overwhelm the supply of available adoptive parents, and we would be back to warehousing kids in orphanages, again at state expense. Personally, I'd rather give a state-funded hand up to folks who are simply weathering a rough patch, in the end it would cost me less than trying to find "perfect parents" (and who gets to define THEM?) for every poor kid in the country. (And that is as specific as I'm going to be on this topic, because taking it any further will invite political discussion.)

And no, being so poor that you can't feed your kids isn't a crime, no matter how badly you want it to be, not unless the kids are the only people in the household who are not being fed. It is only criminal neglect when you fail to share what you have with the children in your custody: if all you have to share is nothing, then everyone in the household goes without, and there is no crime.

 

[Buckeye Princess]

Yes as some PPs have stated, you don't know everything about the family and their situation. However, if I were you and given that information I would pass. I believe strongly in personal responsibility. For me personally, I find the likelihood very small that there is a scenario explaining that information that would be in line with my personal beliefs and values. Given I have a limited budget as well, I would want to donate to a family where there was a greater certainty.

 

[Cindy B]

I think that if kids themselves are filling out the lists, then yeah, there are going to be pie-in-the-sky requests on it, but IME the parents fill out the lists based on what the kids have said that they want.

I think that the issue for a lot of people is the spectre of the gifts being taken from the child to be sold for cash. When that happens the "fit in" argument is moot. I've volunteered with charities on pickup day, and when you overhear comments like, "I can't get **** for this stuff." then it can be pretty disheartening.

I hear you loud and clear. I work in a low socio economic school district.. 100% free lunch, dangerous urban area, etc. One of the schools partnered with a local mortgage company. There were not one but three Uhauls filled with donations for every kid in the school -- 500 kids!

I helped volunteer with the pickup- Of course there were moms and then dads trying to get another pile (even after the original pile was picked up) .

The worse was a mom was picking up the bag for her child.. for safety reasons, these were all in black bags -( so no one would mug them on the way home.). Mom looks in bag and turns to people near her and sells the bag for DRUGS.. right there in the open.. kids got nothing and mom got high.. she was also selling herself as well as part of the deal..

That turned me off ever doing it again.

 

[Andtototoo]

Here's the thing ... if you don't ask, you don't get. I am sure a lot of these families figure that it doesn't hurt to ask for name brand items because they might get them. Mom likes the $200 coat so she asks for it ... doesn't mean she's going to get it but she runs a better chance by putting it out there than just saying "I want a coat". It was worth a shot to ask for the better one. At the very least, she's probably hoping someone looks at the $200 coat and attempts to find a similar one for less.

Asking for Burts Bees lip gloss over just plain, generic lip gloss or for an A&F hoodie over a Hanes hoodie is a way for kids to "fit in" and be like everyone else. Especially when most of them are being shunned for being poor and not having those things. Most kids with nothing have a difficult time fitting in and feel that if they have these name brand things, their peers will include them and see them differently. It's want of fitting in at school and among peer groups.

Remember ... these kids didn't ask to be born into struggling families. They just want to fit in among their peers and be like everyone else with the name brand hoodies, lip glosses, t-shirts, etc. for once in their livels. It's Christmas and probably the only opportunity they will ever have of receiving something that might make them feel like the other kids.

You know, I deeply understand wanting to fit in as a teen. I do because I was one of those teens with the discount store clothes when "everyone" around me had the Calvin Klein jeans or the discount store sneakers when "all" of the other girls had the baby blue Converse All-Stars. And you know what? I learned some really important lessons about the difference between want and need and not allowing herd mentality to ruin one's satisfaction with what one has.

I don't think it's a coincidence that 35+ years later, I hear from my old friends about how much credit card debt they have and how deeply in debt they are for their fancy SUVs and well... I'm not. I live within my budget and don't give a crap what the woman next door drives or how she dresses. It's also not a coincidence that my house was paid off in 6 years and they're struggling on that 30 year mortgage.

I will also add that from having worked in a small shop that sponsored families at Christmas for years, I got very cynical. I too saw mothers turn around and sell their kids' presents for drugs and alcohol. I had mothers come in and demand gift receipts so they could return the gifts for cash. I had mothers come in and scream at me that the no-name whatever wasn't worth as much as the name brand whatever. Over the five years we did this program, I'd say we gave out approximately 500 gifts -- guess how often we got a thank you from anyone? NEVER. Not once. We stopped doing it after our fifth year and when the social worker asked us why, we told her that we were sick of the attitude and the lack of gratitude. She told us point blank that there was no sense of gratitude in her clients. Never again.

 

[disneyofcourse]

I hear you loud and clear. I work in a low socio economic school district.. 100% free lunch, dangerous urban area, etc. One of the schools partnered with a local mortgage company. There were not one but three Uhauls filled with donations for every kid in the school -- 500 kids!

I helped volunteer with the pickup- Of course there were moms and then dads trying to get another pile (even after the original pile was picked up) .

The worse was a mom was picking up the bag for her child.. for safety reasons, these were all in black bags -( so no one would mug them on the way home.). Mom looks in bag and turns to people near her and sells the bag for DRUGS.. right there in the open.. kids got nothing and mom got high.. she was also selling herself as well as part of the deal..

That turned me off ever doing it again.

Unfortunately, I also stopped donating to several different types of charities because of behavior I saw at several places I volunteered at. It's sad when you hear many say "I'm gonna sell this for some weed" Some people were honestly grateful and so happy while others treated it just by how much money they could sell it for. I have seen people take gifts and say its not a certain brand name and just drop it on the ground. Some places with angel trees would have lists to buy for each child and they would ask for electronics like game systems. I feel like that should almost have a limit of some sort or at least multiple things across different price ranges. I'd be ok with coat size medium, remote control car, etc. But when they ask for a Play station ($250+)with two $70-80 games. I understand reach for the stars but seriously put something else on your list it addition to that. When I first started donating (just a couple years ago) I'd get lists for a barbie doll and gloves, earrings, chapstick and eyeshadow, action figures, RC Car, an extra small pink coat and so on. Now moms on these family lists are asking for a $160 Northface Black ONLY instead of Size large warm fleece or their kids asking for Nike Jordan Basketball shoes $160.

Now I just group up with a teacher friend of mine and she finds kids who are really in need of basics and a toy for Christmas. Like the boy in her class who didn't even have shoes that fit him. She actually gets to know the families. I also donate just various toys and coats to different churches in the area. The churches give to those they feel need it most. On another tread on here someone mentioned a senior tree which sounds like a great idea!! I plan on doing that this year. I feel much better about how I donate now instead of almost being angry at how people treated gifts.

 

[canadianjovigirl]

Please know that there are families that are greatful and these kind of organizations are often life changing, like they were for my family....

Mine was actually what i thought was going to be my worst. I was a single mom to my daughter who had just turned one and I was really struggling. I also lived 12 hours away from family so couldnt see a glowing light at all other than we were both healthy. I was working full time but just could not afford the trip home even with my folks buying the plane ticket the missed work would have sunk us. I had not registered for any holiday help as she really was little and wouldnt know the difference (and my parents did mail a few gifts to us) and i did have groceries so thought i would just tough it out and make the most of it and not take away from those with older kids needing the help. On the 23rd of Dec my apt intercom goes and it is a delivery of a holiday hamper for us I really did look like those you see in commercials or hear about on the radio with my deer in the headlight eyes that flooded with tears as boxes upon boxes of items were brought into my place. The organization did advise that my name was submitted and we had been adopted by a family. I can honestly say i was so overwhelmed with all the items and gifts, giftcards and groceries that i thought i was in a dream. The last item they placed under my tree on top of the wrapped gifts that were piled high was a wicker basket filled with holiday treats and goodies. Still to this day i put out the santa basket and and that is where the treats go.........all my kids know the above story and how much it meant so every year since then we have helped another family thru the holidays. Some years we could not adopt them, but we could get angels from the angel tree and provide gifts or food donations. Every year i relive that day in my memory and and can recall taking my daughter out for a walk in her new winter gear and the fun we had playing with her new toys from Santa and the great pictures i have because of somebody elses generosity. I also got to spend that Christmas with a couple of my dear friends who had no where else to go and since i had all the food for a fabulous meal we all spent it together at my place. So my first holiday away from my family became one of my most memorable.

And yes i can still recall 16 years later some of the items we received so your good deed does not always go unappreciated!!!

 

[counteroffer]

I just thought of another area I would LOVE to help, but don't know where to even look.

What about military families who have 1 or both parents overseas? Do they have an organization where you can adopt one of the families?

 

[kellyg403]

I just thought of another area I would LOVE to help, but don't know where to even look.

What about military families who have 1 or both parents overseas? Do they have an organization where you can adopt one of the families?

My mom was involved ina wives club for Army Staff NCO's. I live in a military town now and other than the USO, and I don't think they are confined to only helping military children, I can't think of anything that is military specific with a location here. There may be some internet sites for just helping military families.