Rant: Carseat Safety

[MSLRAC]

The car seat may have been properly installed, but it doesn't mean he was properly strapped in.

From the link

If he was wearing a snowsuit, he wasn't properly strapped in...that's the point...there is data out there saying it is impossible to strap a child into a seat properly if they are wearing a thick, puffy coat or snowsuit.

 

[JanaDee]

If he was wearing a snowsuit, he wasn't properly strapped in...that's the point...there is data out there saying it is impossible to strap a child into a seat properly if they are wearing a thick, puffy coat or snowsuit.

You missed the point.

 

[mommy2allgirls]

Your PSA isn't based in reality, though. Plenty of people have their kids wear jackets and their seatbelts are perfectly safe.

I never said I gave a PSA another poster called it such. I was merely ranting something I feel is important.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

But that comparison is between a coat that's "full" (100%) vs. no coat (0%). How much does the coat compress when you make the straps snug? How much does the coat compress in an accident?


This kind of inflammatory (IMO) statement does nothing to prove the point. It's those kinds of statements that will put people on the defensive.

The coat compresses, making it unsafe. The recommendation is out there, based on safety studies, not to have a child in a coat. It is SIMPLE not to...blankets, backwards coats after the child is in the car...whatever you need to do. I live in RI, DGD in CT. We "get it" about cold weather. If you choose to further research the % of compression of this coat, or that coat, and the implications of the extent of compression, and make another decision based on your studies, have at it. We choose to follow recommended safety measures.

I honestly don't care if (IYHO) you think my statements were inflammatory. People on the DIS get defensive about way simpler stuff than this. And absolutely I observed the defensiveness, after the very first NON-INFLAMMATORY original post. People aren't following the recommendation, or didn't know about it, and just don't like to hear that they could be wrong.

Anyone here who doesn't want to follow safety recommendations certainly have that choice. Go or it. Anyone here who has children or grandchildren in carseats and are just getting this information and CARES ENOUGH (yup, saying it...get as defensive as you want ) will leave the coats off, or at the very least, look into it more.

 

[bittybabygrower]

I think the statement of if you care for your children you will do ABC...that is part of what is riling up people. Everyone cares for their kids, but you are pretty much sounding like others are idiots and not caring for not knowing. You could have worded it a bit nicer.

We have a mandatory video for all parents to watch and it does address this. You should also take your seat to a firehouse and have them install and check the straps. So worth while. We tell parents to buy the fleece snow suits they work
Much better. My kids always had the ones from Lands End.

 

[sam_gordon]

So all the car seat data on kids and puffy coats is fiction?

So if the data is so easy to find, why hasn't it been linked?

The coat compresses, making it unsafe. The recommendation is out there, based on safety studies, not to have a child in a coat.

And there's been recommendations to not eat red meat (or was it drink red wine?). Then there were recommendations that you should eat meat (or was it drink wine)? As mentioned, recommendations change over time.

I think the statement of if you care for your children you will do ABC...that is part of what is riling up people. Everyone cares for their kids, but you are pretty much sounding like others are idiots and not caring for not knowing. You could have worded it a bit nicer.

Thank you. If you want to convince someone to do something, I suggest not insulting them.

 

[gwynne]

I think the statement of if you care for your children you will do ABC...that is part of what is riling up people. Everyone cares for their kids, but you are pretty much sounding like others are idiots and not caring for not knowing. You could have worded it a bit nicer.

We have a mandatory video for all parents to watch and it does address this. You should also take your seat to a firehouse and have them install and check the straps. So worth while. We tell parents to buy the fleece snow suits they work
Much better. My kids always had the ones from Lands End.

Well said.
I agree about the fleece.
I don't think most kids really like big "puffy" coats and suits anyway. It's hard to walk or even move when you're dressed like the michelin man.

 

[MSLRAC]

So if the data is so easy to find, why hasn't it been linked?

A simple Google search pops up countless articles advising winter coats are not safe with car seats. Sorry that they don't offer you statistical data but when Consumer Reports, NHTSA, ABP and the companies that manufacture these seats say not to put your child in a puffy coat in these seats, that is enough for me. Yes, everyone takes risks every day and you have to decide what risks you are willing to take with your child but when data is out there suggesting that something is unsafe and an easy solution is readily available, I'm not going to take that risk with my kids. I don't care what other people do or how we did it in the olden days. It's not a risk I am willing to take with my kids.

I seriously don't get why people get so bent out of shape when others share safety guidelines. It was the same thing when someone mentioned extended rear facing in other thread. Just because you don't do it, doesn't make you a bad parent and others sharing that info, does not mean that they are saying that they are a better parent than you.

 

[JanaDee]

A simple Google search pops up countless articles advising winter coats are not safe with car seats. Sorry that they don't offer you statistical data but when Consumer Reports, NHTSA, ABP and the companies that manufacture these seats say not to put your child in a puffy coat in these seats, that is enough for me. Yes, everyone takes risks every day and you have to decide what risks you are willing to take with your child but when data is out there suggesting that something is unsafe and an easy solution is readily available, I'm not going to take that risk with my kids. I don't care what other people do or how we did it in the olden days. It's not a risk I am willing to take with my kids.

I seriously don't get why people get so bent out of shape when others share safety guidelines. It was the same thing when someone mentioned extended rear facing in other thread. Just because you don't do it, doesn't make you a bad parent and others sharing that info, does not mean that they are saying that they are a better parent than you.

Have you read this thread? Of course that is what they are saying.

Luckily, I'm old enough that I don't care about the "I'm a better Mommy than you" wars that are so prevalent now. Thank God that wasn't around when I was a parent of a baby/toddler.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Have you read this thread? Of course that is what they are saying.

Luckily, I'm old enough that I don't care about the "I'm a better Mommy than you" wars that are so prevalent now. Thank God that wasn't around when I was a parent of a baby/toddler.

 

[MSLRAC]

Have you read this thread? Of course that is what they are saying.

Luckily, I'm old enough that I don't care about the "I'm a better Mommy than you" wars that are so prevalent now. Thank God that wasn't around when I was a parent of a baby/toddler.

Yes I have read this thread and I am one of the ones that does not think that it is safe for kids to wear big coats in a car seat but no where did I say I was a better parent than anyone else! Did I? If you inferred that, then that is on you, not me. I learned with my first that the only person that can make you feel like a bad parent is yourself. I own every decision, right or wrong, that I make for my kids and no one will ever make me feel bad for that.

 

[gwynne]

Have you read this thread? Of course that is what they are saying.

Luckily, I'm old enough that I don't care about the "I'm a better Mommy than you" wars that are so prevalent now. Thank God that wasn't around when I was a parent of a baby/toddler.

Amen.

And down the road they will gather the statistics. They will compare outcomes before and after this advice change. They will look for unexpected negatives-possibly (not saying it will happen...just a possibility) like carbon monoxide events that might be attributed to trying to heat the car, as well as overall outcomes in the US vs, say Europe.

Personally-this is just me...I would never take a coat off a little one unless I went without mine, too. I would want to know how warm or rather cold that car was. Blankets can slip, be kicked off. Babies get cold, quickly.

Finally, sometimes what "looks" logical has unintended consequences.
The current advice may stand or not. I've been a mom awhile, too. I've seen one years great idea! must do parenting advice becomes a few years later...absolutely not, don't do that, we absolutely don't recommend that anymore.

In the meantime, gentle support and a bit of understanding for all moms would be wonderful. Moms love their kids. Period.

 

[Ginger Renae]

I would hope that people don't follow the most safety standards out of ignorance, but sadly it isn't always the case. Technology is always changing and we continue to learn new techniques. I do not understand a parent that says they have been doing something for blah many years and when raising 10 other kids so it's ok to continue the same way even though there is a safer way/technique. It goes back to what I said before - People used to not use car seats. I remember piling with my 5 friends in the back of a station wagon and no one cared about seat belts. If someone did that today, they would be called a horrible parent.

 

[Talking Hands]

Even here in So Florida I carry fleece blankets to keep my grandsons warm after I strap them in. It is really difficult to clip the straps into their buckets with a thick coat.

 

[dawnball]

You should also take your seat to a firehouse and have them install and check the straps. So worth while.

Heh. I did that once, because the firehouse said they could inspect it to make sure it was tight enough.

The fire station pulled out the seat and did a half-assed install that wiggled more than twice as much as our original installation. I don't doubt that it was technically correct, but we certainly weren't comfortable with the amount of motion the carseat had after the fact.

 

[sam_gordon]

Just for grins, I googled "car seats winter coats" to find all this data that shows how bad this is. I found lots of opinions, from folks who should be reliable (and I'm not saying they aren't). But I've found no data giving examples.

There was one story from someone training to be an EMT who came upon a scene where a snow suit was still in a car seat, but the child wasn't. I'm sorry, but that's extremely hard for me to believe (that the child came out of the SUIT as well as the straps).

 

[dawnball]

Just for grins, I googled "car seats winter coats" to find all this data that shows how bad this is. I found lots of opinions, from folks who should be reliable (and I'm not saying they aren't). But I've found no data giving examples.

There was one story from someone training to be an EMT who came upon a scene where a snow suit was still in a car seat, but the child wasn't. I'm sorry, but that's extremely hard for me to believe (that the child came out of the SUIT as well as the straps).

As far as I can tell (and I did some significant searching) there have been no crash tests involving winter coats. I did find a few mentions (again, without study attributions) that adults shouldn't wear winter coats either.

The NHTSA FARS data for 2012 doesn't show any incidents in that appear to concern winter coats, but I'm not really inclined to go digging further than that. If we're talking less than one related injury per year, it seems that energy would be better devoted to all the kids injured or killed because they weren't restrained at all, or their carseat was improperly installed.

 

[sophiagymgall]

I don't have kids, but I do know that those fleece snowsuits that people are talking about would never keep a child warm in a truly cold climate - neither would blankets thrown over the child, for that matter. Everyone keeps their coat on (as well as gloves, and a scarf, and a winter hat!) in the car, not just kids. We do start heating our cars a few minutes before we need to leave, but we cannot realistically wait until it reaches an acceptable temperature, as that would take way too long!

I understand the issue with carseats, but I have trouble seeing how people manage to keep young kids who are unable to regulate their own body temperature warm. As it is, I'd be more worried about my child getting dangerously cold than getting into a car accident. Thankfully I don't have kids yet, so I have plenty of time to find a solution that will take both issues into account I am honestly asking, what would be a good way to keep your kids safe AND warm in their carseats? I've seen layering mentioned, but don't you still need to take off the top layers before strapping the child into their seat?

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

I don't have kids, but I do know that those fleece snowsuits that people are talking about would never keep a child warm in a truly cold climate - neither would blankets thrown over the child, for that matter. Everyone keeps their coat on (as well as gloves, and a scarf, and a winter hat!) in the car, not just kids. We do start heating our cars a few minutes before we need to leave, but we cannot realistically wait until it reaches an acceptable temperature, as that would take way too long! I understand the issue with carseats, but I have trouble seeing how people manage to keep young kids who are unable to regulate their own body temperature warm. As it is, I'd be more worried about my child getting dangerously cold than getting into a car accident. Thankfully I don't have kids yet, so I have plenty of time to find a solution that will take both issues into account I am honestly asking, what would be a good way to keep your kids safe AND warm in their carseats? I've seen layering mentioned, but don't you still need to take off the top layers before strapping the child into their seat?

A long sleeve onsie under a fleece coat, fleece pants, along with boots, a hat, mittens AND a warm blanket will keep a baby warm enough in a semi pre-heated car like you are talking about, even in below zero temperatures. BTDT a few days ago. However, we have the super puffy, extra warm snowsuit in the car in case of a breakdown. It's part of our winter weather emergency kit for the car. If the car broke down, it would stay warm long enough for us to get her in her thick snowsuit for warmth.

ETA: no, it wouldn't be warm enough in a car that has been sitting outside in below zero temps and hasn't been warmed up at all. But if you live in an area that gets that cold and have a small child, you learn to build 5-10 minutes in to your routine to warm up the car, and maybe even invest in remote start.

 

[Shutterbug]

A long sleeve onsie under a fleece coat, fleece pants, along with boots, a hat, mittens AND a warm blanket will keep a baby warm enough in a semi pre-heated car like you are talking about, even in below zero temperatures. BTDT a few days ago. However, we have the super puffy, extra warm snowsuit in the car in case of a breakdown. It's part of our winter weather emergency kit for the car. If the car broke down, it would stay warm long enough for us to get her in her thick snowsuit for warmth.

ETA: no, it wouldn't be warm enough in a car that has been sitting outside in below zero temps and hasn't been warmed up at all. But if you live in an area that gets that cold and have a small child, you learn to build 5-10 minutes in to your routine to warm up the car, and maybe even invest in remote start.

I read where one city is ticketing people that preheat their cars unattended. So if thats the case. You have to in in it while you warm it up, then turn it off, go inside get the kids ready and hope the car is somewhat warm still when you go to restart it.