Question about the value of DVC

Opportunity cost in the analysis is generally hogwash as Maistre Gracey said, at least in terms of its explicit inclusion. Just because one does things in a spreadsheet does not make things more correct or more accurate. I know this bugs purists who want to do things perfectly "right" but the intractability of the "right" calculations for the average person makes the quick and dirty method not only easier but not appreciably worse in doing your calculations (and certainly not different from a qualitative decisionmaking perspective).

Still don't agree with excluding it, but from one former NIU student (and 9 month DeKalb resident:rotfl:) to another I'm not looking to split hairs, but as I posted before it should remain something that gets factored in. Agree that just because you do something in a spreadsheet it doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make it wrong either.

Oh what I'd do right now to have some Lukolos............

Chris
 
Sorry, Doctor P, but if you try to pass this past your accountant, CFO, or the manager of your private practice office, s/he will laugh at you. At least, they will if they are any good.

A dollar today is simply not "the same as" a dollar ten years from now. When you spend it matters. This is not rocket science, it is high school economics. At least it was when I was in high school.
 
But, you can't just call it 0% and use that as your time-value-of-money figure. You actually have to work out the details to get the true cost.
It is my belief that after all the details are considered, the amount of lost opportunity money is greater when booking hotel rooms every year. Therefor, when comparing the cost of DVC to hotels I find it smart to use 0% opportunity cost. Actually, a negative number would be more accurate.
The mere fact that the formula has a break even point when factoring in lost opportunity proves this.
That is why I compare the cost of DVC to hotels by the formula I posted earlier, which does not include lost opportunity. --

Price of a point divided by number of times the point can be used, plus the mtc fee on that point. My cost is around $6.50/pt.
I then multiply that by the number of points for the accommodations, and compare that price to the best CRO price (plus tax on the CRO price).

Now, if you want to figure the purchase of DVC vs the chunk of money sitting in a mutual fund and NEVER taking a vacation, that's a different can of worms IMO.

MG
 
Now, if you want to figure the purchase of DVC vs the chunk of money sitting in a mutual fund and NEVER taking a vacation, that's a different can of worms IMO.

MG
Not necessarily. Likely the best approach is to start with the purchase price, figure a reasonable rate of return and allow for what you'd likely spend yearly as a debit. If you finance, it is more complicated and you should allow for interest paid as well and the calculation on lost earnings but it is a much more complicated calculation that may truly give a different outcome. It seems to me many are making several assumptions that I am not willing to make or will make differently. Some seem to be assuming it's lost money otherwise, I do not buy that. Some are assuming that the rate of rise of dues and rack rates will be the same and I doubt that's accurate as well with dues rising at a higher % than rack rates (or at least easily attainable room rates). Plus the unstated assumption that many seem to have related to financing is that many can't get it together without financing and I question that premise as well.
 


Not necessarily. Likely the best approach is to start with the purchase price, figure a reasonable rate of return and allow for what you'd likely spend yearly as a debit. If you finance, it is more complicated and you should allow for interest paid as well and the calculation on lost earnings but it is a much more complicated calculation that may truly give a different outcome. It seems to me many are making several assumptions that I am not willing to make or will make differently. Some seem to be assuming it's lost money otherwise, I do not buy that. Some are assuming that the rate of rise of dues and rack rates will be the same and I doubt that's accurate as well with dues rising at a higher % than rack rates (or at least easily attainable room rates). Plus the unstated assumption that many seem to have related to financing is that many can't get it together without financing and I question that premise as well.
Many of your points above are taken into account with the calculator Brian recommended. There are many variables, but at some point one must say this is the likely average of what will happen. You could drive yourself looney figuring every possibility.
Rack rates may not increase as fast as annual fees, but than again annual fees are not 100% of the cost. When averaged in with the stable up front cost, DVC costs may rise at the same rate as rack rates.
Financing does not add huge amounts to the equation. It's actually very easy to figure out the increase in per point cost.
Simply multiply the monthly payment by the number of months financed, then divide by the number of points in the financed contract. Divide that number by the number of years the point can be used, and add the per point mtc fee. It adds less than $1 per point per year. For a room that is 15 points per night it will cost roughly $12/night additional to finance. Not the end of the world...

Edited to add: Many can also subtract the likely tax deduction from the financed amount bringing it to around $0.65 per point.

MG
 
Therefor, when comparing the cost of DVC to hotels I find it smart to use 0% opportunity cost
Yes, you've said this---over and over. And, I've repsonded---over and over---that it is incorrect. The main problem is that the "winning years" are in the future, and a winning dollar ten years from now does not fully offset the loss of a dollar today.

Sadly, insisting on doing the math correctly is an occupational hazard of being a professor. However I am neither assigning you a grade, nor are you buying DVC with my money. So, we do not need to have a meeting of the minds on this issue.
 
Yes, you've said this---over and over. And, I've repsonded---over and over---that it is incorrect. The main problem is that the "winning years" are in the future, and a winning dollar ten years from now does not fully offset the loss of a dollar today.

Sadly, insisting on doing the math correctly is an occupational hazard of being a professor. However I am neither assigning you a grade, nor are you buying DVC with my money. So, we do not need to have a meeting of the minds on this issue.
You've said this many times as well. But that doesn't make it right.
I'm sorry, but as I said earlier, you will not change my mind.

MG
 


Yes, you've said this---over and over. And, I've repsonded---over and over---that it is incorrect. The main problem is that the "winning years" are in the future, and a winning dollar ten years from now does not fully offset the loss of a dollar today.

Sadly, insisting on doing the math correctly is an occupational hazard of being a professor. However I am neither assigning you a grade, nor are you buying DVC with my money. So, we do not need to have a meeting of the minds on this issue.

You've said this many times as well. But that doesn't make it right.
I'm sorry, but as I said earlier, you will not change my mind.

MG


Clearly this could go on for ever, and while it would be entertaining, the fact that I can see that we won't agree on this means we've probably reached an impasse here.

I definitely agree with Brian & Dean (shocking I know given my siggy) in terms of how to model this, but in the end given the multiple variables involved who knows who's version will actually be right.

You can easily convince me that a dollar (or points) today is worth the same as a dollar (or points) 30 years from now (ie using some rate > 0% for opportunity cost) by given me $1000 (or 100 pts) to use today, and I'll gladly repay you exactly $1000 (or 100 pts) in 30 years :lmao:

That being said, whether you "break-even" in 10 years, 14 years, or 20 years will also depend on how you use your points, and more important what you could sell you membership at in the future which is probably the biggest unknown in the equation.

To each their own, if you use your membership correctly, generate some great memories, and if it doesn't put a financial strain on you DVC does yield a tremendous amount of value, and I think that's the bottom line.

Chris
 
You can easily convince me that a dollar (or points) today is worth the same as a dollar (or points) 30 years from now (ie using some rate > 0% for opportunity cost) by given me $1000 (or 100 pts) to use today, and I'll gladly repay you exactly $1000 (or 100 pts) in 30 years :lmao:
Inflation has nothing to do with the conversation. I'm making it a given that rack rates will inflate at the same rate as DVC annual fees. Dean suggests that may not be a 1:1 direct equal, but I believe he would agree it would be reasonably close. I don't believe the disagreement was over the inflation issue anyway...

I do agree with you on one main point --> I think we have reached the time to say we agree to disagree.

MG
 
Inflation has nothing to do with the conversation. I'm making it a given that rack rates will inflate at the same rate as DVC annual fees. Dean suggests that may not be a 1:1 direct equal, but I believe he would agree it would be reasonably close. I don't believe the disagreement was over the inflation issue anyway...

I do agree with you on one main point --> I think we have reached the time to say we agree to disagree.

MG

I'll trade my last ten years of points 40-50 years out for your current points anytime. I'm happy to pass on the inflation issue but there is no arguing that current point are where the value resides...unless you are the sort to pay rack rate today for a reservation 50 years out. Discount the annual allotment of points much like dollars and then figure then calculate the cost per point. You'll quickly conclude the key to finding value in DVC is locating a loaded resale contract, renting off the excess to reduce your basis and enjoying the benefits.
 
I'll trade my last ten years of points 40-50 years out for your current points anytime. I'm happy to pass on the inflation issue but there is no arguing that current point are where the value resides...unless you are the sort to pay rack rate today for a reservation 50 years out. Discount the annual allotment of points much like dollars and then figure then calculate the cost per point. You'll quickly conclude the key to finding value in DVC is locating a loaded resale contract, renting off the excess to reduce your basis and enjoying the benefits.
I don't understand the first part of what your saying, but that's okay as I've put that to bed anyway.

As far as finding the value of DVC..
If you find a loaded resale at a bargain price, at the resort of your choice, I'm sure you will get added value from that.
I also find value, of a different sort, in picking up the phone and ordering points. I don't mind paying a little more for the simplicity, but each to their own.

MG
 
Price of a point divided by number of times the point can be used, plus the mtc fee on that point. My cost is around $6.50/pt.
I then multiply that by the number of points for the accommodations, and compare that price to the best CRO price (plus tax on the CRO price).

That's about what I do- and I'm staying in a BLT LV studio (with BLT HR points) right after Thanksgiving for roughly what All Star Sports would have been @ rack!!! :rotfl: Can't wait. ;)
 
That being said, whether you "break-even" in 10 years, 14 years, or 20 years will also depend on how you use your points, and more important what you could sell you membership at in the future which is probably the biggest unknown in the equation.
A couple of thoughts. I think the questions is first IF you'll break even, then when would you break even. As a side view on Brian's point that a dollar in the future is worth less than a dollar today (not arguable without true and long term deflation), I would suggest that If the break even points is far enough in the future, it is NOT worth the inherent risks involved. The bottom line is that DVC must first make true financial sense for anyone who buys in. If it doesn't make financial sense, buying is truly foolish no matter what other benefits or memories one ends up with due to owning. Obviously there are assumptions one must make to look at the finances, if you have to look at the best case scenario possible to make DVC work for someone, they shouldn't buy, period. I would suggest that if it takes 20 years on paper, you'll never truly get there and actually I'd suggest that if it doesn't EASILY break even in 10-12 years, one should not buy. The other issue is that the inherent value of DVC will start to decline at some point, likely soon for the 2042 resorts, however, this part only matters one way or another if you don't hold until the last day.
 
I spend more money now that I own DVC, but the time I spend with the people I love in the greatest place on earth, in some of the best resorts in the world. Does not have a price tag on it. If you have the money do it. If not do not!
 
I spend more money now that I own DVC, but the time I spend with the people I love in the greatest place on earth, in some of the best resorts in the world. Does not have a price tag on it. If you have the money do it. If not do not!
:thumbsup2 i usualy dont get involved in these threads but what the heck. we purchased 400 pts in 1999 for $56 per point. can i stay cheaper, yes. can i ride a bike to work,yes. but i dont. all the great financal wizzards on this thread to tell me how i should spend the money i earn should call uncle sam and tell them how to get out of the trillions we owe and the jobs we lost.i owe nothing.life is simple. dont buy it if you cant pay for it and smile, you may not get another day. these threads get started and its like talking about religion and politics.:lmao:goodluck!:lmao:
 

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