probate issue

[jeanelain]

I'm trying to resolve an issue with our DVC deed and need reasonably priced legal advice. The attorney that DVC referred me to in Florida wants $3,000.00 to fix my problem. Which is: My ex-husband and I owned DVC while married. We were divorced, although DVC was supposed to go to me, we never formerly took care of putting the deed in my name only. I don't think it was in the divorce agreement, that was over 8 years ago. He passed away in March this year. To get this resolved, I have to go through probate in Florida.
He had no will, he had a very small estate. We have two adult children together and he has an adult son from another relationship. Those three children would inherit his half of the membership. The son said he would sign over his portion since he does not have any interest or investment in this. The attorney has to file a bunch of paperwork and all totaling $3,000.00!! I am looking for advice from anyone that used an attorney for their DVC matters. thank you...

 

[deedisneydream97]

I'm trying to resolve an issue with our DVC deed and need reasonably priced legal advice. The attorney that DVC referred me to in Florida wants $3,000.00 to fix my problem. Which is: My ex-husband and I owned DVC while married. We were divorced, although DVC was supposed to go to me, we never formerly took care of putting the deed in my name only. I don't think it was in the divorce agreement, that was over 8 years ago. He passed away in March this year. To get this resolved, I have to go through probate in Florida.
He had no will, he had a very small estate. We have two adult children together and he has an adult son from another relationship. Those three children would inherit his half of the membership. The son said he would sign over his portion since he does not have any interest or investment in this. The attorney has to file a bunch of paperwork and all totaling $3,000.00!! I am looking for advice from anyone that used an attorney for their DVC matters. thank you...

Sorry for your troubles. I am not a lawyer (but worked for them for many years), but if I was in your shoes, I would first locate a copy of your divorce decree. Next, ask an attorney that has done work for you before if he can recommend any colleagues in FL that won't cost you a fortune. Also, some firms have lawyers that can practice in more than one state. Also find all of the original paperwork from when you purchased DVC. Getting all of the necessary paperwork together ahead of time (before speaking with an attorney) will be a time saver. Check out the resale places (The TimeShare Store, a sponsor of these boards has a pretty comprehensive list of contracts for resales) so you can get a pretty good idea of what your contract is actually worth.

Do you still use your membership? Can you maybe just sell the contract? Perhaps in the meanwhile, speak to someone at the Time Share Store and explain the situation. They may have some names for you or can maybe help guide you through a sale in this situation. Laws vary from state to state, but when someone dies "Intestate" (meaning they died without a will) things can be tricky. If the deed was signed as man and wife....well, yes, you do need a lawyer, but $3,000 seems kind of steep.

I recently had someone transfer a deed to me for a timeshare (not DVC). No $$ was involved, they just wanted out. I did contact the TimeShare Store and they did point me towards some attorneys that handled that type of stuff. I usually deal with Jamie at the TSS.

Good luck.

 

[mikelan6]

We have recently finished a probate for my father's estate and it took almost three years and a LOT of money to get it finalized. $3000.00 for a probate does not sound like a lot - depending on the estate, but you might want to shop around with other attorneys and get a price quote from them.

 

[deedisneydream97]

We have recently finished a probate for my father's estate and it took almost three years and a LOT of money to get it finalized. $3000.00 for a probate does not sound like a lot - depending on the estate, but you might want to shop around with other attorneys and get a price quote from them.

I think the $3,000 she's referring to is to handle JUST the DVC deed. To me that seems like a lot. I, too, just recently settled my parent's estate...the lawyers made a lot of money over something that wasn't really worth all that much. If there wasn't so much bickering, probate would have only cost $800 or so for the entire estate.

 

[supersnoop]

The problem here is that there's no proof that the husband was supposed to turn over the contract eight years ago. So, his estate legally owns the real estate. This is not going to be an easy, straight forward process, and selling won't make it any easier (since it will have to go through probate to be sold). Honestly, $3,000 sounds about right.

 

[carlbarry]

As an attorney, the first thing I would ask you is: How was the DVC deed written? If it was written as a right of survivorship deed then his half goes to you. Second, you must find your divorce agreement and see if it says anything about DVC. In any event, yes, you do need to go through Ancillary probate in Florida, due to the DVC property being in Florida.

 

[deedisneydream97]

As an attorney, the first thing I would ask you is: How was the DVC deed written? If it was written as a right of survivorship deed then his half goes to you. Second, you must find your divorce agreement and see if it says anything about DVC. In any event, yes, you do need to go through Ancillary probate in Florida, due to the DVC property being in Florida.

I just checked my multiple deeds and found something interesting. My resale contracts are written with the "right of survivorship" phrase, and my direct purchases are written "husband and wife". I am hoping the OP comes back and sees your post. We also have two deeds with our daughter's name on it. I guess that would go to her when we go to the magic kingdom in the sky and the others would be split with her brother. I don't like to think about such things....but I guess DH and I really need to "get our house in order".

 

[Dean]

I would start with the wording on the deed. To do this right I suspect that is the only way. I am not a lawyer but do have some thoughts that may or may not help. One is to just let it sit and keep using it and not change the deed at all. Eventually it'll expire anyway. I'm sure there's some legal reason this would be an issue but likely without any enforcement issue as long as the heir's agree. Another is to see if Member Admin will change the contract with a death certificate without changing the deed. Another thought is to talk to a couple of closing companies who routinely do DVC and see if they have any suggestions or lawyers to suggest that might do it more reasonably. I'd also talk with some of the internet closing companies to see if they have options like LT transfers. Also a quick google search reveals several lawyers that specialize in this situation though I couldn't vouch for them and didn't see specific fees. I'd suspect this should be more around $1500 based on some TUG info I found once you get with someone reasonable who is accustomed to doing timeshare probate.

For me personally I'd get a quit claim deed from each of the legal heirs so that you could act on it later if the need arose. Unless I planned to sell it or needed to update the contract because the heir's wanted to be formally included, I likely wouldn't fool with it unless it's a very expensive contract. Remember we're only talking half of the value if it's only the 2 listed depending on how it's formally titled. You already have the ability to use the contract. OF course everyone could just refuse it and let it go back to DVC but that's not likely the best option though it often is for other timeshares.

 

[rcbarker]

I know that tenancy by the entirety is nullified in the case of a divorce and just becomes a joint tenancy. The right of survivorship can survive a divorce in some states.

 

[jeanelain]

I know that tenancy by the entirety is nullified in the case of a divorce and just becomes a joint tenancy. The right of survivorship can survive a divorce in some states.

I'm the OP and want to thank everyone here for their input. I still haven't decided what to do. I have a list of Florida attorneys to contact. This wouldn't even be an issue if it weren't for his son inheriting a portion. If it were just our two daughters that we had together involved, I would just leave it alone. We aren't in contact with his son much and he has agreed to turn his portion over to my daughters, but at a cost of $3000. that's kinda steep. In the future, it could cause problems for my daughters when or if I ever die (haha), especially if they cannot locate the son.
The deed does not read right of survivorship and I haven't been able to get a hold of my divorce agreement because my copy was lost in a fire and the attorney I used is no longer in the area. We agreed that DVC was mine, but not sure if it was in writing. Regardless, even if it was in writing, we never took care of it and now, without a will, a portion goes to his son. Yes, let's all get our "houses in order" if we haven't . Lesson learned.

 

[carlbarry]

If your ex agreed in writing to transfer her share to you as part of the divorce settlement, and this was never done, and then she died, my opinion as a lawyer is that her estate must transfer ownership to you. Her son would not be entitled to a share just because his mother died before she could fulfill her contractual obligations.

 

[Dean]

You need to get some additional legal advice but I'm thinking get the son to do a quit claim deed and just let it sit. It's a depreciating asset. Now if you can get it done for a few hundred dollars, I'd go ahead and do so but you might consider whether to change or add names at the same time.

 

[jeanelain]

You need to get some additional legal advice but I'm thinking get the son to do a quit claim deed and just let it sit. It's a depreciating asset. Now if you can get it done for a few hundred dollars, I'd go ahead and do so but you might consider whether to change or add names at the same time.[/QUO

The quit claim deed may be the best way to go! thanks!

 

[Straughn]

After my husband passed away, I had his name removed from the deed on the advice of my niece who is a lawyer. I used a company whose name was something like Legal Timeshare Transfers. Unfortunately, I am in the middle of moving and all my files are in storage and I can't look up the company name. They were located in GA and came recommended by several people on this board. They were very inexpensive and extremely knowledgable. It might be worth a call to them to see if they can help.

 

[supersnoop]

You need to get some additional legal advice but I'm thinking get the son to do a quit claim deed and just let it sit. It's a depreciating asset. Now if you can get it done for a few hundred dollars, I'd go ahead and do so but you might consider whether to change or add names at the same time.

The quit claim deed may be the best way to go! thanks!

Title will have to pass to the son before a quit claim would be appropriate. The difficult part here, and the reason it has to go through probate, is because you need to get the title out of the deceased's name.

 

[Dean]

Title will have to pass to the son before a quit claim would be appropriate. The difficult part here, and the reason it has to go through probate, is because you need to get the title out of the deceased's name.

My reasoning was to get it done for later usage if needed, not to complete the transfer at present, the other thing that I came here to add was to go ahead and get a notarized letter with him disclaiming the item. The fact is that on say a 200 pt SSR contract as an example, we're talking a total value of $14K after commissions if the entire thing were sold, half of which would go to the OP and of the remaining half, apparently 1/3 (or 1/6 of the total) would potentially be due the person in question. So in terms of this one item were really discussing a value of $2500 to that individual. If it runs for 10 yrs without being completed, it will be worth proportionately less. Now it may be that the probate can't be closed in the home state until this is completed and that alone may (or may not) make it worth completing legally.

After my husband passed away, I had his name removed from the deed on the advice of my niece who is a lawyer. I used a company whose name was something like Legal Timeshare Transfers. Unfortunately, I am in the middle of moving and all my files are in storage and I can't look up the company name. They were located in GA and came recommended by several people on this board. They were very inexpensive and extremely knowledgable. It might be worth a call to them to see if they can help.

when I did a search, I came up with 3 options and I believe this was one of them.

 

[supersnoop]

the other thing that I came here to add was to go ahead and get a notarized letter with him disclaiming the item

Sorry, but I really think that's a terrible idea. First, a notary only confirms the identity of the signer, not the validity of the content. And, more importantly, demanding (or even requesting) such a thing, a going to escalate the issue. "Why do you need that? Why is it so important for me to do this for you? What are you trying to pull over on me?"

No doubt, it would protect one party, but it's of no benefit to the other party.

 

[Dean]

Sorry, but I really think that's a terrible idea. First, a notary only confirms the identity of the signer, not the validity of the content. And, more importantly, demanding (or even requesting) such a thing, a going to escalate the issue. "Why do you need that? Why is it so important for me to do this for you? What are you trying to pull over on me?"

No doubt, it would protect one party, but it's of no benefit to the other party.

Worse than spending $3K for something worth no more than that for this person's part anyway. They've already said (per the OP) this party doesn't want it and they'll have to sign papers to do anything that is done legally which has more risk of the issues you bring up than these IMO. And it does give benefit to the party in question because otherwise they'd be responsible for the fees, potentially the entire amount of them. The bigger risk along the lines you state is if this drags out for months then you ask them to sign legal papers which is going to be the case if it does go through the FL probate process. My intent was to give options and suggestions to think about what really is or is not needed here and I am going under the idea that the other party isn't interested in DVC at all and doesn't want to fool with it as well as they aren't worried about the few dollars involved. We've all said they need to at least talk to a lawyer about these issues. Anyone can disclaim an inheritance, in this case it'd go to the other joint children as I read the OP's posts unless spelled out differently in the will. But you still have the potential paperwork issue to deal with and the decision whether it really needs to be done at all and if it's not an absolute, what the risks, issues and benefits are of the different approaches. Personally I'd take this entire set of ideas to their probate lawyer and get their direction as well as checking with the various options to find a reasonable way to probate the florida portion. If they can get this done for $500 and get the deed changed and recorded in the process, all of these issues go away but at $3K, this is a major issue IMO.

 

[supersnoop]

I'm under the impression the $3,000 was for a lawyer to take this through probate. A quit-claim just adds to that cost, not avoids it. It has to go through probate to get it out of dad's name. Whether it ends up in mom's name alone, or in her name along with the three kids will depend on the divorce decree. After that, you can worry about the quit-claim.

 

[Dean]

I'm under the impression the $3,000 was for a lawyer to take this through probate. A quit-claim just adds to that cost, not avoids it. It has to go through probate to get it out of dad's name. Whether it ends up in mom's name alone, or in her name along with the three kids will depend on the divorce decree. After that, you can worry about the quit-claim.

My point with getting things signed now is to get it done while one can and while the parties are willing. My suggestion as ONE consideration was to get it signed now while working on other options, even if it never gets recorded. A quit claim deed adds no cost other than possible for the purchase of a FL template deed in this situation. That's where the lawyer in the home state comes in. Since the deed and ownership were never changed, would the divorce decree take precedence over the will and/or probate laws of the state? I know they don't relieve the party giving up the item from any debt obligations nor from the maint fees. I suspect one can get this done for around $600-700 and get the name changed as part of that but it'll take ferreting out someone that specializes in timeshares and maybe a little work themselves.