Princesses Can Hold Their Own! *a mini rant*

[stimmons]

Hello folks! It's been a bit since I've posted and please excuse me if this has been discussed recently or I've used the wrong forum.

Since the release of Frozen I've been seeing a lot of comments/memes/posts about how this is the first Disney Princess movie that features a princess that doesn't need a man to quote "save" her.

Especially with all of the recent talk about Walt's and the Disney Company's chauvinism I just want to say, WHAT THE HECK?!?!?!

When I watch Disney Princess movies there are actually very few that feature the prince or guy fully saving the "damsel" in distress. I find that most of the princesses are very strong willed, independent women.

i.e.

Do we not remember Merida changing her own fate? And also choosing to not get married just because her mother wanted her to?

What about Repunzel standing up to Gothel telling her that she would never stop fighting her and then saving Flynn from dying?

Or how about Mulan saving freakin China?

I'm pretty sure Pocahontas saved John Smith from being killed by her father.

Belle's love for the Beast saved not only him, but saved the entire castle from a spell.

Even going back to Cinderella! In my very humble opinion Prince Charming didn't do anything but fall in love with her! It was more her Fairy Godmother and her animal friends that did the saving.

So I think Princesses are pretty bad@#$!

In conclusion, I knew that I could post this here and my sanity wouldn't be questioned. Thanks for listening and I'm sure I'm not the only one that has thought of this.

 

[LSUfan4444]

 

[JillianMarie]

I kind of think it's more about the fact that the central idea of this movie wasn't necessarily a romantic story. I mean, yes, there was that element there but you could've completely removed the dudes from that story and it still would've been, largely, the same. Cinderella? Not so much. Beauty and the Beast is, first and foremost, a romantic story. Aside from Brave (which was...uneven, in my opinion) every movie they've ever released with a female protagonist has had her activity be largely because of a man. Frozen was wonderful because while it wasn't entirely divorced from that - it was extremely far removed from stories like Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty. Even with Ariel, the motivation to live with the humans is there from the beginning, but she doesn't take ACTION until Eric is involved.

Also, I think the message of 'maybe don't be so desperate for a boyfriend that you end up getting engaged to the first guy who comes along and then ends up being evil because you haven't critically evaluated the situation' is a good one.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Hello folks! It's been a bit since I've posted and please excuse me if this has been discussed recently or I've used the wrong forum.

Since the release of Frozen I've been seeing a lot of comments/memes/posts about how this is the first Disney Princess movie that features a princess that doesn't need a man to quote "save" her.

Especially with all of the recent talk about Walt's and the Disney Company's chauvinism I just want to say, WHAT THE HECK?!?!?!

When I watch Disney Princess movies there are actually very few that feature the prince or guy fully saving the "damsel" in distress. I find that most of the princesses are very strong willed, independent women.

i.e.

Do we not remember Merida changing her own fate? And also choosing to not get married just because her mother wanted her to?

What about Repunzel standing up to Gothel telling her that she would never stop fighting her and then saving Flynn from dying?

Or how about Mulan saving freakin China?

I'm pretty sure Pocahontas saved John Smith from being killed by her father.

Belle's love for the Beast saved not only him, but saved the entire castle from a spell.

Even going back to Cinderella! In my very humble opinion Prince Charming didn't do anything but fall in love with her! It was more her Fairy Godmother and her animal friends that did the saving.

So I think Princesses are pretty bad@#$!

In conclusion, I knew that I could post this here and my sanity wouldn't be questioned. Thanks for listening and I'm sure I'm not the only one that has thought of this.

I agree 100%..........those gals stood right up there! I especially like Merida, one of the best princesses'!

AKK

 

[wiigirl]

I agree 100%..........those gals stood right up there! I especially like Merida, one of the best princesses'!

AKK

 

[AJPPGH]

There are certain people that actively look for ways to put their PC opinions out there and this is one hook that they have found. Totally annoying to me along with the people who have a problem with the color pink for girls and barbies.

 

[stimmons]

I kind of think it's more about the fact that the central idea of this movie wasn't necessarily a romantic story. I mean, yes, there was that element there but you could've completely removed the dudes from that story and it still would've been, largely, the same. Cinderella? Not so much. Beauty and the Beast is, first and foremost, a romantic story. Aside from Brave (which was...uneven, in my opinion) every movie they've ever released with a female protagonist has had her activity be largely because of a man. Frozen was wonderful because while it wasn't entirely divorced from that - it was extremely far removed from stories like Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty. Even with Ariel, the motivation to live with the humans is there from the beginning, but she doesn't take ACTION until Eric is involved.

Also, I think the message of 'maybe don't be so desperate for a boyfriend that you end up getting engaged to the first guy who comes along and then ends up being evil because you haven't critically evaluated the situation' is a good one.

I definitely see where your coming from on the "romantic" movie point and agree. But Mulan's first call to action was to save her ailing father from having to go to war. SO even then there it's never really about "romance".

And please don't get me wrong I LOVED Frozen! I actually didn't want to even like it and went into the theater scoffing at the idea of even more princesses because I'm a bit of a purist.

But after watching it I fell in love with Elsa, the story, and the music. Now my daughter and I are on a blissful Frozen overload at the house.

 

[jk and ek]

a lot of what i've seen isn't necessarily that the princesses needed saving but that their lives were not worthwhile or complete without a man...and also in frozen disney even pokes fun of the fact that the bulk of the women in their older stories don't even KNOW these men when it is decided they are their ~true love~ almost immediately after meeting them. i also find the really narrow view of what feminine ideals are (as presented by the princesses) to be problematic when there isn't discussion from parents involved and a good balance/perspective about gender roles (and how they can be damaging) isn't provided. and by balance i mean that i think that things like princesses, fairies, etc. can be a part of a little girl's (or boy's!) play and interests if parents help them understand the parts that aren't really great and help prevent it from providing a super limited ideal of what it means to be a girl/woman. ie: that you don't have to be sweet and feminine and wear a pretty dress or be beautiful or need a prince charming to be a good person or a happy person.

also, using belle as an example isn't so great...poor girl had a textbook case of stockholm syndrome. haha

 

[JillianMarie]

I guess it's been about a billion years since I've seen Mulan - so I really can't say. I'll take your word for it.

I just thought it was unbelievably refreshing to have a story where the action wasn't driven by the desire for a romantic relationship. Clearly it's a story that people have really really responded to, and I don't think it's a coincidence that the central theme of the story is the bond between sisters rather than a romantic bond.

 

[foodrocksluver]

This is how I feel:

When I see this:

And I bet Mulan feels the same way.

 

[stimmons]

a lot of what i've seen isn't necessarily that the princesses needed saving but that their lives were not worthwhile or complete without a man...and also in frozen disney even pokes fun of the fact that the bulk of the women in their older stories don't even KNOW these men when it is decided they are their ~true love~ almost immediately after meeting them. i also find the really narrow view of what feminine ideals are (as presented by the princesses) to be problematic when there isn't discussion from parents involved and a good balance/perspective about gender roles (and how they can be damaging) isn't provided. and by balance i mean that i think that things like princesses, fairies, etc. can be a part of a little girl's (or boy's!) play and interests if parents help them understand the parts that aren't really great and help prevent it from providing a super limited ideal of what it means to be a girl/woman. ie: that you don't have to be sweet and feminine and wear a pretty dress or be beautiful or need a prince charming to be a good person or a happy person.

also, using belle as an example isn't so great...poor girl had a textbook case of stockholm syndrome. haha

BAHAHAHAHA! Fair point!

I do think that you delve way deeper into the parenting aspect of it and I agree with you wholeheartedly. But I approach every movie/tv show/human interaction that my child has as a learning experience. Of course by age appropriateness. I explain what we believe and try to instill our morals but I don't exactly shield her from all exposure to other ways of thinking.

 

[elgerber]

This is how I feel:

When I see this:

And I bet Mulan feels the same way.

LOL, my daughter has been complaining about this since she first heard someone say that!!!

 

[jeneric997]

I agree that in the end most of the princesses "save themselves", but I think the majority of Disney Princess movies revolve around "finding true love", there's one long song about in Frozen.

The biggest problem I have with Disney movies is why is the mom always killed off, or just plain mean, or completely absent from the story?????

My DDs and I joked that at least is Frozen they got rid of both parents!

 

[caybean]

Hello folks! It's been a bit since I've posted and please excuse me if this has been discussed recently or I've used the wrong forum.

Since the release of Frozen I've been seeing a lot of comments/memes/posts about how this is the first Disney Princess movie that features a princess that doesn't need a man to quote "save" her.

Especially with all of the recent talk about Walt's and the Disney Company's chauvinism I just want to say, WHAT THE HECK?!?!?!

When I watch Disney Princess movies there are actually very few that feature the prince or guy fully saving the "damsel" in distress. I find that most of the princesses are very strong willed, independent women.

i.e.

Do we not remember Merida changing her own fate? And also choosing to not get married just because her mother wanted her to?

What about Repunzel standing up to Gothel telling her that she would never stop fighting her and then saving Flynn from dying?

Or how about Mulan saving freakin China?

I'm pretty sure Pocahontas saved John Smith from being killed by her father.

Belle's love for the Beast saved not only him, but saved the entire castle from a spell.

Even going back to Cinderella! In my very humble opinion Prince Charming didn't do anything but fall in love with her! It was more her Fairy Godmother and her animal friends that did the saving.

So I think Princesses are pretty bad@#$!

In conclusion, I knew that I could post this here and my sanity wouldn't be questioned. Thanks for listening and I'm sure I'm not the only one that has thought of this.

I could NOT agree more... all the memes and stuff on Pinterest claiming "finally" make me want to post your list!

...And I would like to add Tiana to your list... She worked HARD for what she got...

 

[delyrium]

Yes, it's not the first, but it's one of just a few Disney movies with female protagonists where "happily ever after" doesn't necessarily mean snagging a (rich) man. They're ignoring the other recent ones because they like Frozen better.

 

[Allison]

What does this have to do with Theme Park Attractions and Strategies?

 

[estherhead]

I agree that in the end most of the princesses "save themselves", but I think the majority of Disney Princess movies revolve around "finding true love", there's one long song about in Frozen.

The biggest problem I have with Disney movies is why is the mom always killed off, or just plain mean, or completely absent from the story?????

My DDs and I joked that at least is Frozen they got rid of both parents!

I do think a lot of the movies end in true love, but I disagree that is the main plot. And Brave didn't end in true love at all.

I used to find it annoying that the moms are killed, but then I realized they do that to show how confusing the world is without your mom. It's not an insult, it's a compliment.

And Tiana doesn't need a man either, though she ends up with one. And her dad dies, not her mom.

I find those who complain most about princesses focus on Snow White. Considering Snow White came out before WWII this is wildly unfair since most women did not work outside the home and would have connected with Snow White taking care of the dwarves. And in a simpler world, many girls and boys married rather quickly. You didn't need to know a lot. The value system of most people was the same. So you just needed to know if you liked them.

Also, Disney being judged on chauvinism seems unfair. My grandfather is 94 years old. He does not think the same way about women as my husband. And it wouldn't really be fair to ask him to. If Walt Disney had been born in the 70's he would think as men do today. But he wasn't. You can't slap today's sentiments on yesterday's people. I bet George Washington didn't think about women the way men do today.

 

[Anonomom]

Hello folks! It's been a bit since I've posted and please excuse me if this has been discussed recently or I've used the wrong forum.

Since the release of Frozen I've been seeing a lot of comments/memes/posts about how this is the first Disney Princess movie that features a princess that doesn't need a man to quote "save" her.

Especially with all of the recent talk about Walt's and the Disney Company's chauvinism I just want to say, WHAT THE HECK?!?!?!

When I watch Disney Princess movies there are actually very few that feature the prince or guy fully saving the "damsel" in distress. I find that most of the princesses are very strong willed, independent women.

i.e.

Do we not remember Merida changing her own fate? And also choosing to not get married just because her mother wanted her to?

What about Repunzel standing up to Gothel telling her that she would never stop fighting her and then saving Flynn from dying?

Or how about Mulan saving freakin China?

I'm pretty sure Pocahontas saved John Smith from being killed by her father.

Belle's love for the Beast saved not only him, but saved the entire castle from a spell.

Even going back to Cinderella! In my very humble opinion Prince Charming didn't do anything but fall in love with her! It was more her Fairy Godmother and her animal friends that did the saving.

So I think Princesses are pretty bad@#$!

In conclusion, I knew that I could post this here and my sanity wouldn't be questioned. Thanks for listening and I'm sure I'm not the only one that has thought of this.

I'll grant that Mulan, Merida, Tiana and Rapunzel are pretty cool. But as much as I love the princesses, I have to admit their stories aren't exactly tales of feminine empowerment:

Ariel -- Mutilates her body, surrenders her voice and agrees to abandon her whole life for the chance to be with a guy. Who she's never talked to. At 16.

Belle -- dreams of adventure in the "great wide somewhere," but settles down and marries the guy holding her captive. Worse, she never even leaves the provincial town -- the castle's within walking distance! Apparently being with a guy who's cuddly and has lots of books is adventure enough.

Snow White -- Can't bear to make eye contact with a prince, but fancies herself in love with him anyway based on a quick glance from far away. Flees the queen, only to decide to become the housekeeper at the first cottage she stumbles across. Too stupid to realize the old lady that's freaking out the animals might have bad intentions.

Sleeping Beauty -- basically does nothing at all besides dancing in the woods with a guy she's just met. The rest of the time she's a prop.

Now, I say a lot of this with my tongue firmly in cheek. I like all of these movies, but I am also glad that Disney seems to be moving in the direction of protagonists whose stories don't revolve around throwing everything away for twoo wuv.

 

[JillianMarie]

What does this have to do with Theme Park Attractions and Strategies?

Sorry, you're right. We should probably just endlessly rehash FP+ some more.

I appreciate the overtly conscious decision to move the female protagonists into a more...modern style. I think the point is that out of dozens and dozens of Disney movies and I honestly don't know how many "princess" movies we can come up with, what, 4 that are arguably more stories about female empowerment. While Frozen might not be the first, it is, to me, the movie that finally comes across as not a transitional movie between the Snow White/Cinderella/Sleeping Beauty style and what I would expect to be an era of much stronger female characters. I think the most recent transition period started with Princess and the Frog and ends with Brave.

I'm not saying that I don't appreciate what they did with Merida or Mulan or whomever but I do think that Frozen is different. The story is structured in such a way that if the character of Kristoff were completely removed, the story would be nearly identical. And that is something new and exciting.

 

[magentarhps93]

In Belle's defense:

She sacrifices her entire future because she loves her father. There have only been a few princesses who have willingly sacrificed her life for the life of someone else. She saves him, and winds up saving every single person in that movie, including the Prince.

Also, she's grown up with Gaston and keeps refusing him because she doesn't love or want him, she knows what love means to her. Also the Beast treats her very well toward the end, he gives her gifts, asks her questions about herself, they laugh together, supports her interests, and often apologizes when he loses his temper. Those are all good qualities for someone to have if you're falling in love with them.

Finally, the Beast is loaded. For all we know their honeymoon is a 3 month trip around the world. He can afford it. She can leave the castle whenever she wants.

Sorry, I'm just kind of a lot of obsessed with Belle.