Prayers for peace and calm in Ferguson, MO

Not speaking to justice or injustice, guilt or innocence, but to my perception of the whole ordeal. The whole problem can be seen clearly on this thread. It is the dehumanization of the other-- other opinion, other color, other nationality, other religion.., until we stop thinking of other people, other human beings, as "animals" or worse, we are not going to learn, we are not going to change things, and we are only going to see more anger, frustration and destruction. I find the level of hatred I see here as more than sad, I find it a condemnation of our culture as a whole and it frightens me for the world we are creating.

A little bit of empathy can go a long way towards making things better-/ it is the basis of being the change you want to see in the world.
 
The sad thing is, people like the hosts on The View (on right now) are saying "the officer could have shot him in the leg, etc". HOW DO THEY KNOW? THEY WERE NOT THERE!

They are giving opinions as if they are facts and people are accepting these opinions as truth and going off on protests that have nothing to do with FACTS.

First shots were to the arm and shoulder. And in officer Wilson's mind and that of some witnesses, that did not work.
 
The sad thing is, people like the hosts on The View (on right now) are saying "the officer could have shot him in the leg, etc". HOW DO THEY KNOW? THEY WERE NOT THERE!

They are giving opinions as if they are facts and people are accepting these opinions as truth and going off on protests that have nothing to do with FACTS.

Just tuned in--Whoopi if shoot to kill is a thing, then we should know that.

Um, I kind of knew that. I try to harm a cop, I'm not assuming that I will be walking away with just a flesh wound.:confused3

I do agree about the cop cams.
 
Just tuned in--Whoopi if shoot to kill is a thing, then we should know that.

Um, I kind of knew that. I try to harm a cop, I'm not assuming that I will be walking away with just a flesh wound.:confused3

I do agree about the cop cams.


And sorry Whoopi, but saying it could be someone in my family or your family? Everyone seems to forget that this "child" committed a crime at the convenience store. He rushed the officer, tried to get his gun. I don't have anyone in my family that has ever done anything remotely like that. (and I am from the south Bronx) YMMV
 


Just tuned in--Whoopi if shoot to kill is a thing, then we should know that.

Um, I kind of knew that. I try to harm a cop, I'm not assuming that I will be walking away with just a flesh wound.:confused3

I do agree about the cop cams.

There was discussion of my community's PD getting body cameras recently. I asked my friend who is a local cop about it. She said the union would fight it tooth and nail. She said the general opinion of her department is they don't want them. They feel it's an invasion of privacy for both them and the people they interact with.
 
Whoopi on the Lincoln Tunnel, I agree 100%.

Laverne then said that. Revolution is going to have inconvenience. Whoopi then went off that in '64--there were peaceful protests but it was on sidewalks and they had respect to not have someone lose a job because they couldn't get to work.

Whoopi summed it up so well--these protesters can't assume that everyone in the cars are boneheads.
 
There was discussion of my community's PD getting body cameras recently. I asked my friend who is a local cop about it. She said the union would fight it tooth and nail. She said the general opinion of her department is they don't want them. They feel it's an invasion of privacy for both them and the people they interact with.

I don't agree with that argument. The cam can be activated on a stop at which point, I don't feel the officer is entitled to privacy in performing an action of his job. Dash cams are legal. And so are security cameras in other lines of work.

I would question why the union would be so resistant and what exactly are they trying to hide.
 


I think the whole mistrust and lack of respect (on both sides) is a chicken and egg situation.
Sometimes an open minded dialogue can make a huge difference. That will never happen if the attitude is "it's your problem so you fix it". Sometimes having someone really listen and acknowledge your point of view is valid can open a door to change and improved relations.
Of course there are some people who will never change or attempt to build that bridge.

Fair point
 
I mentioned it earlier--but what happened when authorities took the gentler "let then protest" approach on Monday? All the junk that the intimidating presence could have prevented.

When social media is aflutter with calls for chaos and resistance, a city should plan accordingly.

Once the stepfather called 5-7 times to burn the place down--it should have been game over and a stronger presence brought in.

But optics didn't allow it. The place burned. And the town must take full responsibility for it.

Do you think any of the responsibility falls to the Governor who activated the NG and the authorities who chose not to deploy them? Or those that decided nighttime was a good time to announce the decision not to try Wilson?
 
Or those that decided nighttime was a good time to announce the decision not to try Wilson?

Let's be honest. There never would have been a "right" time. Had it been in the morning, looting and riots would've happened at night anyways.
 
If they are blocking people from accessing medical services, or stopping them from going home (or anywhere, really), then they are violating other people's rights.

Sort of like when traffic in Ft Lee was disrupted . . .
 
Do you think any of the responsibility falls to the Governor who activated the NG and the authorities who chose not to deploy them? Or those that decided nighttime was a good time to announce the decision not to try Wilson?

From the accounts I have seen, the governor has the only authority to activate the guard and he did not do so despite requests. Have you heard differently?

Re: Annoucement timing...
My assumption all day from various commentary was that the announcement was delayed to allow those who did not want to be caught up in any protests would be able to safely get home without any concerns. It wasn't going to occur before COB. I am not familiar with the Ferguson and St Louis metropolitan area rush hour to know if announcing during rush hour was feasible.

I don't believe any early would have made much of a difference. Night fall and opportunity would still come.

I don't think announcing it during the day would have been helpful to citizens.

I also don't think the stepfather would have said--thank you for announcing at 3pm, please don't burn anything.

And to be clear--I was under the impression that the family statement was no violence and peace. The fact that he gave the order to burn the place day in close proximity to the announcement was not something I knew until the following day when video was released where he screamed it repeatedly to the crowd who then heeded the order.
 
This pretty much sums the entire situation up for me. Last post on this thread I'll make.


http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/11/ferguson-fraud-113178.html



The Ferguson Fraud

By RICH LOWRY

November 25, 2014

The bitter irony of the Michael Brown case is that if he had actually put his hands up and said don't shoot, he would almost certainly be alive today. His family would have been spared an unspeakable loss, and Ferguson, Missouri wouldn't have experienced multiple bouts of rioting, including the torching of at least a dozen businesses the night it was announced that Officer Darren Wilson wouldn't be charged with a crime.


Instead, the credible evidence (i.e., the testimony that doesn't contradict itself or the physical evidence) suggests that Michael Brown had no interest in surrendering. After committing an act of petty robbery at a local business, he attacked Officer Wilson when he stopped him on the street. Brown punched Wilson when the officer was still in his patrol car and attempted to take his gun from him.

The first shots were fired within the car in the struggle over the gun. Then, Michael Brown ran. Even if he hadn't put his hands up, but merely kept running away, he would also almost certainly be alive today. Again, according to the credible evidence, he turned back and rushed Wilson. The officer shot several times, but Brown kept on coming until Wilson killed him.



This is a terrible tragedy. It isn't a metaphor for police brutality or race repression or anything else, and never was. Aided and abetted by a compliant national media, the Ferguson protestors spun a dishonest or misinformed version of what happened—Michael Brown murdered in cold blood while trying to give up—into a chant ("hands up, don't shoot") and then a mini-movement.

When the facts didn't back their narrative, they dismissed the facts and retreated into paranoid suspicion of the legal system. It apparently required more intellectual effort than almost any liberal could muster even to say, "You know, I believe policing in America is deeply unjust, but in this case the evidence is murky and not enough to indict, let alone convict anyone of a crime."

They preferred to charge that the grand jury process was rigged, because St. Louis County prosecutor Robert McCulloch didn't seek an indictment of Wilson and allowed the grand jury to hear all the evidence and make its own decision. This, Chris Hayes of MSNBC deemed so removed from normal procedure that it’s unrecognizable.

It's unusual, yes, but not unheard of for prosecutors to present a case to a grand jury without a recommendation to indict. Regardless, who could really object to a grand jury hearing everything in such a sensitive case? If any of the evidence were excluded that, surely, would have been the basis of other howls of an intolerably stacked deck.

It’s a further travesty, according to the Left, that Officer Wilson was allowed to testify to the grand jury. Never mind that it is standard operating procedure. As former prosecutor Andrew McCarthy points out, guilty parties usually don't testify because they have to do it without their lawyer present and anything they say can be used against them.

It is also alleged that the prosecutor McCulloch is biased because his father was a cop who was killed by a criminal. Follow this argument though to its logical conclusion and McCulloch would be unable to handle almost all cases, because of his engrained bias against criminality.

Finally, there is the argument that Wilson should have been indicted so there could be a trial "to determine the facts." Realistically, if a jury of Wilson's peers didn't believe there was enough evidence to establish probable cause to indict him, there was no way a jury of his peers was going to convict him of a crime, which requires the more stringent standard of beyond a reasonable doubt.

Besides, we don't try people for crimes they almost certainly didn't commit just to satisfy a mob that will throw things at the police and burn down local businesses if it doesn't get its way. If the grand jury had given into the pressure from the streets and indicted as an act of appeasement, the mayhem most likely would have only been delayed until the inevitable acquittal in a trial.

The agitators of Ferguson have proven themselves proficient at destroying other people's property, no matter what the rationale. This summer, they rioted when the police response was "militarized" and rioted when the police response was un-militarized. Local businesses like the beauty-supply shops Beauty Town (hit repeatedly) and Beauty World (burned on Monday night) have been targeted for the offense of existing, not to mention employing people and serving customers.

Liberal commentators come back again and again to the fact that Michael Brown was unarmed and that, in the struggle between the two, Officer Wilson only sustained bruises to his face, or what Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo calls an "irritated cheek." The subtext is that if only Wilson had allowed Brown to beat him up and perhaps take his gun, things wouldn't have had to escalate.

There is good reason for a police officer to be in mortal fear in the situation Officer Wilson faced, though. In upstate New York last March, a police officer responded to a disturbance call at an office, when suddenly a disturbed man pummeled the officer as he was attempting to exit his vehicle and then grabbed his gun and shot him dead. The case didn't become a national metaphor for anything.

Ferguson, on the other hand, has never lacked for media coverage, although the narrative of a police execution always seemed dubious and now has been exposed as essentially a fraud. "Hands up, don't shoot" is a good slogan. If only it was what Michael Brown had done last August.
 
The phrase NO JUSTICE NO PEACE is not meant to mean violence. PEACE, in this context, stands for PEACE OF MIND. Meaning, until something is accomplished WE - the protesters- will continue our movement by being present and visible. Thus giving those against the cause..... NO PEACE! :headache: SMDH.

...I swear. Some of you....

Some of us can read and comprehend. Have you taken the time to examine the grand jury documents? Studied the forensic reports? Read the testimony? Or are you still going on the word of people who have been completely discredited by scientific facts? Because with basic critical thinking skills, once that evidence was reviewed, the truth would be painfully obvious.

Then again, as a PP said, it is so much easier to just blame everything on someone else instead of taking personal responsibility. Yes, young people! Continue! Protest without knowledge of the FACTS. Facts don't matter when you can take a selfie or maybe make it on to CNN. Continue!
 
Thing is, this story contains multiple issues, which really should be separated instead of lumped into one huge tragedy:

- First, and perhaps foremost: Yes, it is a racial issue; no one has to "make it racial". However it happened, this town was not unlike South Africa under Apartheid; that is, the vast majority of the citizens were black, yet the vast majority of the government and police force were white. Bad racial feelings already existed in this town. This town was a powder keg waiting to ignite, and Michael Brown was the spark that lit the fuse.

I used to teach at a high school that was split right down the middle -- 50% white, 50% black -- yet, by a twist of fate, the white kids in that district tended to live in million-dollar mansions in gated communities, while the black kids tended to live in ratty old fixer-uppers. These were kids, so they didn't have lots of experience with the world, and they thought this was the world. They didn't realize that in the real world most of us are middle class and exist between those two extremes (because in their world, only about 10% of the students were middle class). Getting to the point now: These two extremes definitely created a volitile atmosphere in the high school, and we constantly had little scuffles between the two groups. I wonder if Ferguson is something like that.

- Did Brown commit a crime that night? Evidence makes it appear that he did.

- Did Wilson (that is the officer's name, right?) have reason to fear for his life when Brown moved towards him? I don't know enough facts to have an opinion on this. Regardless, multiple shots seems to have been -- to use a poorly chosen word -- overkill.

- Finally, the rioters and looters are just plain wrong. Their behavior is illogical in that it doesn't bear any connection to Brown's case. Rather, it's just mob behavior at its worst, and it actually hurts their cause rather than helps it. Protesting without violence, bringing civil cases against the police department -- those options would bring positive results instead of making them look like thugs.



"the vast majority of the citizens were black, yet the vast majority of the government and police force were white." This is easily fixed:
1. Register to vote and then vote.
2. Apply to become a police officer.
 
Officer Wilson's story is "unbelievable"

We've finally heard from Officer Darren Wilson.

Wilson had been publicly silent since the events of August 9, when he shot and killed 18-year-old Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. And, even as the grand jury announced its decision not to indict him, he remained silent. He had his attorneys release a statement on his behalf.

But on Monday night, St. Louis County prosecutor Robert McCulloch released the evidence given to the grand jury, including the interview police did with Wilson in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. And so we got to read, for the first time, Wilson's full, immediate account of his altercation with Brown.

And it is unbelievable.

http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7281165/darren-wilsons-story-side/in/7041840

But this in not just about Michael Brown and Ferguson. It is a bigger problem in the USA and if something is not done, it is going to blow. Notice that the protests are all over the country not just in one small town. People know that this on going pattern of the police murdering unarmed blacks need to end.
 
The phrase NO JUSTICE NO PEACE is not meant to mean violence. PEACE, in this context, stands for PEACE OF MIND. Meaning, until something is accomplished WE - the protesters- will continue our movement by being present and visible. Thus giving those against the cause..... NO PEACE! :headache: SMDH.

...I swear. Some of you....


Bless your heart, you are so naive.
 
I heard the guy who was with Michael Brown talking about what happened that night on MSNBC yesterday. He seemed like he was telling the truth. He didn't hesitate or look to his attorney for guidance, just let the answers spill out. I believe him. My fourteen year old believed him. If you can find that interview, listen to it.
 

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