Points Rented, now I am stuck with the bill!

[DebbieB]

As other posters have pointed out, this issue has been discussed here at length several times over the years and I expect we'll continue to see recurrences from time to time.

In July 2005, DisBoards member “Duckfan-in-Chicago” posted a response he received from DVC concerning their policy on this matter. Post 225 on this thread. It seems clear that (in 2005 at least) a member was NOT responsible for charges of a guest who was staying on a reservation using a member’s vacation points.

Makes me wonder if there was a change in the policy to what the OP is being told or if this is yet another example of inconsistent Disney administration? My guess - the July 2005, policy is still in effect.

I don't think the member is responsible for the charges but the problem is DVC froze their DVC account until it is resolved.

 

[DBBN]

I don't think the member is responsible for the charges but the problem is DVC froze their DVC account until it is resolved.

That's the thing...since the OP is NOT responsible to guarantee the credit worthiness of his guests his account should NOT have been frozen. In post 237 of the 2005 thread I reference above the OP goes on to write just that. His account was taken off hold but only after he pointed out their policy that the member is NOT responsible for their guests incidental credit card charges.

 

[JandD Mom]

I hope the OP had a rental agreement with the renter and that agreement had a provision in it that indicated that the renter would be responsible for paying all charges upon check out, and would also be responsible for reimbursing the owner for all costs and fees incurred, including litigation costs, in the event that the renter failed to pay his/her account with disney in full upon check out. It's also probably a good time for everyone to make sure their rental contracts contain such a provision.

As to the OP, I believe I would call member accounting, and ask for the written documentation, including effective date, that indicates that the member is responsible for the charges when s/he didn't notify the hotel that s/he would be responsible for those charges. My guess is that there isn't one. At that point, DVC will probably acknowledge that it can't freeze the member's account.

 

[JandD Mom]

Part of the problem with this though, is that the $400.00 transaction happened in the state of FL. I'm assuming that the OP lives in another state, and that the renter lived in yet another state. My guess is that you'd have to file this in small claims court in FL ($$$), have the person served in their state ($$$), pay for tickets in a room to be in court in FL ($$$) and take time off of work ($$$). Let's say that the court then finds in your favor for the damages. You get a judgement for the amount you're out, plus court fees/serving. But your ticket, room and lost wages are most likely NOT reimbursable. Those items could easily add up to more than $400.00.

This would be easily resolved by putting a provision in the rental agreement that the agreement is subject to the laws of the state of [whatever your state is] and that the renter agrees to submit to the jurisdiction of [your state] for any disputes under the contract.

Would this be effective? It could depend on the state, or the court. It is a rental agreement for a property in Florida. But that property is also registered in many other states, including (likely) your state. Nevertheless, if the renter agrees to submit to your state's jurisdiction, they might still be able to be sued in your state, and the court could possibly apply FL law to that rental. Or the court could apply your state's law, depending on the state.

The bottom line, if it's not in your contract, your chances of suing someone in your own state are substantially diminished.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I was looking at the POS for Beach Club Villas (just happened to have that one at my desk). It states that members can rent out their reservations, but the Club Member will be responsible for the acts or omissions of the renters or any other person or persons permitted by the Club Member to use the Vacation Home.

 

[WALTSAGOD]

Remember, they aren't "using your points." You used your points. You made a reservation. And then invited a guest to stay in the room.

Clearly so, ouch!

 

[normr]

I have rented points in the past to 3 different families and it worked out great for all of us, but something like this does make you think twicw about renting out points. I guess we'll need to rewrite those rental agreements to make sure that there is something in there which spells out a legal recourse for any damages or costs incurred by the renter along with making renters put up a deposit which will be returned after the vacation if there are no problems

 

[gonegolfin]

There's no way to do that. Besides, while you're checking in, you're asked if you want to put a credit card on your room keys. So...if the renter doesn't know at the time that it's possible, they soon will.

This is another reason that I have never rented my points. We let 50 points expire last year for this very reason.

If you have/had a transfer available (and a buyer), a transfer would be a good way of disposing your points. You would not have the aforementioned liability in a transfer.

Brian

 

[LMB123]

What a terrible situation. I am considering renting points but this post has definitely scared me. If I transfer points to a DVC member, am I still accountable for any charges he makes through the front desk?

Is there anyway to safely rent or transfer points? Are room charges always going to be a danger?

Thanks,
LMB

 

[Chuck S]

What a terrible situation. I am considering renting points but this post has definitely scared me. If I transfer points to a DVC member, am I still accountable for any charges he makes through the front desk?

Is there anyway to safely rent or transfer points? Are room charges always going to be a danger?

Thanks,
LMB

Transfers are different from rentals in that regard. Once you transfer the points to another member, they are theirs, you have no further responsibility.

 

[dvc at last !]

How often can you transfer points to another member ?
and
How often can you have points transferred to yourself ?

 

[1andrea]

Tranfers do sound a lot less risky but sometimes transfers are not an option.

Banked points cannot be transferred so sometimes if you cannot use the points yourself renting is the only option.

 

[CarolMN]

How often can you transfer points to another member ?
and
How often can you have points transferred to yourself ?

You are limited to one transfer per use year per contract. The transfer may be into your account or out of your account,but not both in the same use year.

 

[dancrystal]

Wow, that stinks. It does seem like it should be possible to decline a credit card being used on your reservation, or at least some policy that you can request they prove the card, since another guest than you is staying in that room.
I am researching because I am a dvc member and need extra points this year for a three bedroom villa. This all seems scary to me, and think I may just stay with the cash difference quote from disney, as it is not due till I arrive. Or possibly transfer of points is more secure for everyone when you don't know the party you are intrusting with your resources. SO SORRY you got scorched!
cr

 

[dancrystal]

Some people take damage deposits for these sorts of things, but the trick is not returning the deposit until you know you won't be charged for anything the renter did.

Some folks take damage deposits, and just refund them automatically seven or fourteen days after the rental's conclusion, without even checking. The theory behind this approach is that anyone planning mischeif will rent from someone else. This is sort of like having the alarm company sign in your lawn, but not ever actually installing the alarm system. Easy, and generally effective.

OP: on the bright side, if you never do get paid, you can at least put the loss as a deduction on your Schedule E against the rental income. That will lessen the sting a little bit.

GOOD ADVICE!

 

[maburke]

I am researching because I am a dvc member and need extra points this year for a three bedroom villa. This all seems scary to me, and think I may just stay with the cash difference quote from disney, as it is not due till I arrive.

What do you mean by "cash difference quote"?

 

[erickr123]

I finally got the rentee to pay the bill. I do beleive it was an honest mistake followed by some hard times. She finally called MS Accounting and paid the bill with a credit card.

 

[erickr123]

How often can you transfer points to another member ?
and
How often can you have points transferred to yourself ?

This was my problem as I could not transfer these points and did not want to loose them.

 

[Chuck S]

I'm glad the renter came through. I know it was frustrating.

 

[fers31]

Congrats on getting your money and I appreciate you taking the time to post this thread. I think you opened a lot of our eyes.