Please do not post copy cat VMK sites - First post Updated 5/1

[aengus]

Sorry Aengus, I'm going to have to disagree with you here (yeah yeah, what's new...)

I don't see what they did as an exploitation at all. I see it as offering hope to us when we were hurting the most.

I would have done the same thing had I the same resources and abilities.

Pink, did you see the VMK version of their website? they totally exploited us... go find hurry will you... ROFL It didnt represent their work, it was the mad hatter room for crying out loud.

They stole traffic from a bunch of websites that hold their target audience. Kudos from a business prospective, shame from the fact it targeted many sad people in dire straights.

 

[OneDisney]

I'm going to have to agree with aengus. Their site should have looked exactly like it did now. They're site looked like the beta-VMK homepage. Almost exactly like it, except they had doctored the Mad Hatter Room.

 

[PrincessWendyBird]

Sorry Aengus, I'm going to have to disagree with you here (yeah yeah, what's new...)

I don't see what they did as an exploitation at all. I see it as offering hope to us when we were hurting the most.

I would have done the same thing had I the same resources and abilities.

King and I agree with you here, Pink. From speaking to people who are working with and speaking to this group of people, they are trying to offer a place for families to go now that we have lost our online home. The initial images, I believe, were something thrown up quickly and those are now replaced with images the game will be using. Their description of the game never promised another online Disney Park. From the beginning, they described it as a community based on history and that is what I am seeing so far.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

You'd think if they were 6 weeks away from public beta that they would have some of their own art to show.

It is my understanding that on the initial day, they had not even started programming yet. And to be honest, 6 weeks is plenty of time. Hasbro developed the Littlest Pet Shop online game into alpha in less than 5 days, beta in less than 3 weeks, launching 3 weeks later. so 7 total weeks from idea to launch. And I think they took too long.

 

[CelebrationNM]

It was clear they hadn't started programming or even creating storyboards because they blatantly stole Disney material and presented it as their own. That's the middle school definition of plagerism and this site did nothing less. No self-respecting graphic designer would do that, but somebody that sees a potential audience and wants to generate discussion about themselves would. Of course they're acting sympathetic and like they're on (y)our side, but until I see something besides a tricorn hat and a room with customizable wallpaper, I'm not buying a second of it.

I don't care what their intentions were, but stealing Disney's website and graphics/themes was wrong. Kids thought Disney was making something new and, with the castle graphic and poorly Photoshopped room I can see why.

I'm not getting my hopes up, but a lot of kids are, and that worries me, so I think it is only right to not provide access to their project.

 

[Vary]

I think the Littlest Pet Shop is an excellent analogy here. It was thrown together - by an experienced contractor, Pileated Pictures - in a few weeks to get in on an emerging market in time for ToyFair (I can just picture some clueless exec in a boardroom booming "We need a 'Webkinz'!") And it is, quite simply, lame. That's what happens when you try to jump on a bandwagon that's already moving at speed. There's a lot of work being done on it now, which does sound promising, but the game that was unveiled in October? Even Barbie Girls is more fun, and that's saying something.

If that's the level of complexity that people are hoping for, I can give you quite a list of existing virtual worlds that will more than deliver. Try (redacted) for a start. (No, stop! Don't try (redacted)! I'm just making a point here!) But VMK was not built from the ground up in six weeks - well, it wasn't built from the ground up at all, but it took longer than that to get it together even with Sulake's pre-existing engine.

I think people expecting this game to be a better alternative to VMK than what's already out there are in for a serious disappointment. And the the really dirty tricks that were tried - copying the VMK Beta page and whipping up art that was so obviously meant to mimic Disney, and that unbelievable url, not to mention the soundalike name - look more like a rather desperate attempt to cash in than someone trying to help out a community that's looking for a new place to play.

 

[threeboysmom]

Pink, did you see the VMK version of their website? they totally exploited us... go find hurry will you... ROFL It didnt represent their work, it was the mad hatter room for crying out loud.

They stole traffic from a bunch of websites that hold their target audience. Kudos from a business prospective, shame from the fact it targeted many sad people in dire straights.

Yes, I did see their original website. And you know what? Honestly, it made me smile for the first time when my heart was breaking because it gave me hope that something similar (not an exact duplicate) was on its way.

Hello? Of course, they went to their target audience! Who better to "target" than us who love VMK and were heartbroken over its demise?

And no, I can't go find Hurry. I just got home and I'm 709 in queue You're stuck with me tonight

 

[aengus]

Yes, I did see their original website. And you know what? Honestly, it made me smile for the first time when my heart was breaking because it gave me hope that something similar (not an exact duplicate) was on its way.

Hello? Of course, they went to their target audience! Who better to "target" than us who love VMK and were heartbroken over its demise?

And no, I can't go find Hurry. I just got home and I'm 709 in queue You're stuck with me tonight

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMP!

 

[threeboysmom]

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMP!

Does that mean you want to be with me tonight?

 

[aengus]

Does that mean you want to be with me tonight?

can we shoot.id stuffs?

 

[seaturtledude]

Bump!

 

[mtlhddoc2]

I think the Littlest Pet Shop is an excellent analogy here. It was thrown together - by an experienced contractor, Pileated Pictures - in a few weeks to get in on an emerging market in time for ToyFair (I can just picture some clueless exec in a boardroom booming "We need a 'Webkinz'!")

Well, I cannot speak for the company, since I work for said company (not the contractor), but.... LPS has more worldwide users, and by users, I mean active users, than VMK ever did.

It is also available in currently 6 languages and they are rolling out two other language versions in the next 2 months or so including basic Chinese and Russian. The LPS online has done what it was supposed to do, it quadrupled worldwide sales of Littlest Pet Shop products.

so while you say it is lame, the users say otherwise.

And honestly, it was not some clueless executive in a boardroom who said that, it was me. (no, I am not in a boardroom either, I am just a grunt)

 

[Vary]

Well, I cannot speak for the company, since I work for said company (not the contractor), but.... LPS has more worldwide users, and by users, I mean active users, than VMK ever did.

It is also available in currently 6 languages and they are rolling out two other language versions in the next 2 months or so including basic Chinese and Russian. The LPS online has done what it was supposed to do, it quadrupled worldwide sales of Littlest Pet Shop products.

so while you say it is lame, the users say otherwise.

And honestly, it was not some clueless executive in a boardroom who said that, it was me. (no, I am not in a boardroom either, I am just a grunt)

Sure, a lot of people have bought the toys, but remember that it's a brand that's in every Target in the country, and had been for years before the game was rolled out. If VMK had that level of exposure, what do you think its numbers would have been like? VMK was very obviously kept small on purpose, so comparing numbers doesn't make any sense.

But how many users does Club Penguin have? How about Webkinz? Sure, LPS has sold a lot of toys, but the quality of the game is quite simply nowhere near VMK's, and that's what's important here, as we're talking about a game that's being created in the same time frame as LPS VIP which people are expecting to measure up to VMK. The idea is not the problem; the problem is that the game was rushed to market. When you rush, you come up with an inferior product, and compared with most of what's out there, LPS is inferior. I do know that there are some developments in the works that look like they're going to improve the game tremendously in the long term. But of the handful of plushie buy-in virtual worlds that are out there now, which one is getting the press? Which one are people talking about? Not LPS, and not Beanie Babies 2.0.

 

[VMK_Mouse]

Courtesy Bump!

 

[mtlhddoc2]

I agree with you there Vary, but on the flip side, it is also worldwide marketing that has made the difference there. VMK may have been kept small on purpose, but I doubt it. VMK had the exposure from DISNEY, which is one of the largest corporations in the world. VMK was hocked on every Disney site from day 1 on. There were even ads for VMK in gamer magazines. But the problem is that VMK kept awful hours for those outside the continental US. Our British friends could not even start playing until 3 PM their time, and our Hawaiian friends had it shut down at 7pm. So if you lived outside of Eastern/Central/Mountain/Pacific time, you were largely shut out of the game.

I realize they did it to "mimic" Disneyland, but if they REALLY had intentions on running a long term game, they would not have restricted it to that level. Plus add that to the fact that they marketted it towards 8-14 year old, and the game could not really be played by the lower end of that group with any large success. Webkinz and LPS are successful because they CAN be played by all ages. Same with Toontown as well. VMK became an "elitist" game which only hardcore gamers could excel at. That whole "big quest" was a prime example. The average 8-14 year old could not even get started on teh quest because of the sheer ammount of time needed for it, and that is not even including the significant lag and wait times for rooms. VMK is a great game, but has serious flaws that none of the other games have. Part of my job is to monitor LPS and Magic Online systems to make sure there is no lag. Ever. With LPS and WK and even Toontown - Little kids can play and not get frustrated or presented with dictionary dancing and vulgar content. And as a parent, thats all we can really ask. And that is exactly why it is ok for my kids to play those games, and not VMK.

in the end, as great as the programming in VMK is, the major downfall was threefold:
1: capacity was seriosuly lacking. the game just could not handle having people actually use it.
2: the ego of the "producer" Yavn. His ego really caused alot of issues for a long time and ultimately drove people away from the game.
3: flexibility - ultimately, the whole "7 to 10" pacific time thing really shut out a very large portion of (potential) users.

 

[Chedstro]

Just another reminder - it takes up to three years to develop and bring to Beta a good MMORP.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

Ched: not really, unless you work for StargateOnlineWorlds

Most of the ones on the market today, including some of the good ones, had less than a year from idea to launch. with todays tech, 6-8 weeks is not far fetched at all.

 

[Vary]

Yes, worldwide marketing can get a not-very-good game more users than a great one. That's exactly my point.

I think we have very different definitions of what 'success' means for a player in a game like VMK, but all of that is way off topic here. My point is, and has been, that a game that was thrown together overnight is going to be less fun to play than one that was worked on seriously. And, that if you disagree, and are satisfied with a hastily constructed game, there are a wide selection of them already out there - there is no reason to insist that this game is the one. Either the developers will take their time and do it right, or the game - at best - will not be any more special than a Habbo or a Club Penguin (both of which took a lot more than six weeks to develop and still don't quite measure up) or a that-other-game, whose name will never again cross my keyboard.

And again, not that I agree with your three points, but how much money is or isn't spent on servers, how the game is marketed, what events are created for it and the 'ego' of the project manager don't have anything at all to do with the basic quality of the game. That's like saying that a Pinto being driven through Paris is better car than a Ferrari rambling around in Hoboken. You can always take the Ferrari up to Manhattan, but the Pinto will still be a Pinto whatever the scenery. A hastily developed game fully backed by a major corporation might be successful in spite of itself, but that won't actually make it a better game.

 

[PirateBell]

I signed up with my email address and have no plans whatsoever to change anything anywhere. Everytime I enter my email address on the gazillion online sites that I do, I don't go running off to change my info...

My email address is public and has been for years. ANYBODY could find it, so I'm not worried one tiny bit.

I am signed into VMK right now just fine

Yea,, well I certainly agree with you Pink!! I have had my same email adress since I first came on line and haven't had any problems!! And I know my email address must be on a gazillion sites too!!

 

[mtlhddoc2]

Yes, worldwide marketing can get a not-very-good game more users than a great one. That's exactly my point.

I think we have very different definitions of what 'success' means for a player in a game like VMK, but all of that is way off topic here. My point is, and has been, that a game that was thrown together overnight is going to be less fun to play than one that was worked on seriously. And, that if you disagree, and are satisfied with a hastily constructed game, there are a wide selection of them already out there - there is no reason to insist that this game is the one. Either the developers will take their time and do it right, or the game - at best - will not be any more special than a Habbo or a Club Penguin (both of which took a lot more than six weeks to develop and still don't quite measure up) or a that-other-game, whose name will never again cross my keyboard.

And again, not that I agree with your three points, but how much money is or isn't spent on servers, how the game is marketed, what events are created for it and the 'ego' of the project manager don't have anything at all to do with the basic quality of the game. That's like saying that a Pinto being driven through Paris is better car than a Ferrari rambling around in Hoboken. You can always take the Ferrari up to Manhattan, but the Pinto will still be a Pinto whatever the scenery. A hastily developed game fully backed by a major corporation might be successful in spite of itself, but that won't actually make it a better game.

To use your car analogy... a Pinto driven by Mario Andretti, will ultimately perform better than a Ferrari driven by a blind grandmother.