Please Check My Logic

Discussion in 'UK DVC Discussion' started by MarkF0wle, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. MarkF0wle

    MarkF0wle "It's kind of fun to do the impossible."

    Jan 18, 2011
    Hello all.

    My family & I travel over to Disney once a year at the moment, and atleast every other year since 1991. Stayed on Disney property this past May & really see the benefits to staying on-site as opposed to off-site. Last year we did things the expensive way & booked 3 different rooms to accommodate the size of the family & the fact everybody wants there own space when sleeping. Next year we're staying in a 2BR villa at OKW. So we're going to see whether that works out to being enough space for us. We're used to staying in 3BR apartments off-site & not willing to cough up the $$ for a grand villa.

    So; we're at a stage of saying that either the 2BR works for us or we go back to staying off-site. As the only places that do 2BRS at Disney are the DVC places that questions comes up as to whether we buy into DVC. Over the years we've spent enough money to buy our ideal contract about 3 or 4 times over.

    My question is about value. Next year we're spending about £8K on our holiday with FD. Firstly, I assume DVC booking don't qualify for FD offers? Or am I wrong?

    Of that £8K, only about half (£4.5K) is being spent on the room. £2.5K on flights & £1K for Disney tickets. Obviously buying into DVC won't save me any money on the flights. But what about tickets? I know that there are offers for special priced APs. Would 4 x 14 day tickets to Disney (APs or otherwise) cost less than the £1K I am paying now? We would only go once a year & probably same time each year.

    So what I am looking at is that instead of costing £8K a year to holiday there; we would be spending £2.5K + ticket costs + dues. Which brings me to another question. What are the rough costs on dues? We would most likely buy into Wilderness Lodge, our collective favourite resort, with a large contract. Around 650 points which is 2 weeks in a 2BR there. I saw the example on the DVC page was about $750 a year for 160 points at OKW. If I just work that through we're talking $2.5K a year for 640 points. I know that isn't exact, but ballpark?

    So I am looking at top end estimates at £2.5K+£1K+£1.5K=£5K every year to visit there on holiday. So ignoring food we're looking at saving about £3K a year. The contract I would look for on resale is about £25K+costs. But we would probably buy direct so we could enjoy the benefits of flexibilty. So maybe budget for £30K+costs.

    So we're looking at a break even point of around 10-11 visits before we're quids in. So, my last & final question is am I missing anything obvious? I am sure I would have seen all the benefits offered; but I know costs do get hidden a little more.

    A few things of note, I AM ignoring the fact that Wilderness Lodge is better lodgings than OKW, I am aware 2 weeks at Wilderness Lodge would cost more than £8K. We would also be paying in full upfront so wouldn't be needing finance so I have not factored in any interest rates for that fact.

    I hope you were taking notes & any insight everybody has is greatly appreciated. I am trying to get my ducks in a row as we would probably buy into DVC when we are there next year if we are able to make financial sense out of it.

    Thanks all in advance.
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  3. paulh

    paulh <font color=blue>likes to have a beer<br><font col

    Oct 10, 1999
    when we bought in 1998, it cost us £7,500 for 200 points,if you add in the dues over the years and the amount of stays,It works out £1500 per visit for stay for room only, we always have a studio so 200 points well enough for us.
    For us i think it was economical after 7 stays(compared to a Moderate hotel).So now in the profit stage of staying
    As for Free DDP not as good value as was in early years as there always tweaking it,and also rack room rates go up each year.Once you bought DVC your locked in at that price.
    Think best way is to work out how many points you would require for the rooms you want
    Then add in around $5per point for the annual dues
    Then you can work out when you would break even
    For us the Price per point now is a lot more than we paid so now we wouldn't buy it but we would not have gone as often or had cruises or been to California,which we have used our points for
    Our only regret is that we didn't buy sooner
  4. irenep

    irenep DIS Veteran

    Aug 21, 2007
    Not sure if I followed your maths correctly but did you account for the initial buy-in/depreciation? e.g.if you are paying £30k for a 30 year contract then maybe add that? I worked out my cost per point to include buy-in/annual dues to be about $7.50/£5 (I have a mix of points- mostly resale at BCV but some direct at BLT which wasn't on the resale market at the time)

    You said that you would most likely just go once a year so APs wouldn't be a benefit unless you time it so that you can get 2 trips out of them e.g. go last 2 weeks august one year/first two weeks next. Just be careful if buying APs - you may end up going more often than you thought - we got 4 trips out of ours one's just too tempting:rotfl2:

    I personally wouldn't buy direct from Disney if I could get resale - the advantages of the savings when buying resale far outweigh any advantage of buying direct. Consider if you would actually use the 'benefits of flexibility'. Have you spoken to Disney about buying direct anyway? I would imagine it might be quite hard to get hold of that many points from them for WLV as it is a 'sold-out' resort- even resale you would probably be looking at 2 or more contracts. (get the same use year on all of them!)

    There is no free DDP for DVC but you can buy it without having to purchase tickets. I have never paid for DDP as I think the TiW card suits us better and as a DVC member you can get that for $100 (I think its $75 with AP)

    I hope you enjoy your stay at OKW - we have been there 2 years in a row using free dining to supplement our points and loved it...such a relaxing place to be:goodvibes
  5. Meggysmum

    Meggysmum Mouseketeer

    Jun 11, 2012
    At the moment an AP with discount is only slightly dearer than the 14 day ultimate but it does not include waterparks or Disneyquest. That requires the Premium pass which seemed dear to us. We have decided to go for the normal AP and just pay WP entry since we don't go to them often. If you time your trips you can get an AP to start with one and scrape a second one in at the end.

    There is no free dining with DVC. We are staying at SSR with DDP this year as we got a great deal which was hardly more than we paid for flights only the previous year so we wont be using our points. However this does mean that we had 4 night in GC in the summer, my daughter is out at BLT at the minute on our points and we are at OKW over New Year so sometimes it is about the extra you can do for the same money.

    If you do decide to go ahead and buy DVC I would recommend resale as you get far more for your money but try and get a couple of contracts with the same UY if you want enough points for 2BR holidays. That way you can sell one in the future if it is too many and it is always easier to dispose of smaller contracts than one large one.

    Dont forget to factor in Maintenace Fees too.

    We wish we had bought our DVC earlier as had sepent 4 trips off-site in large apartments and we could have been onsite instead!
  6. Elise79

    Elise79 Moderator Moderator

    Aug 17, 2006
    To start with I would go check out the 2 bedrooms at VWL (or SSR/BCV/BWV they are all the same layout and very similar in size) as they are smaller than OKW. OKW was the first DVC resort and has the largest rooms and completely different layout to the rest.

    The design changed again when they built Kidani & BLT with the addition of a bathroom in the living area in the one/two beds.

    Annual dues at VWL are currently $5.61 and on average increase 3% a year.

    Also Disney are offering VWL at $102 a point - Resale you will paying around $60. That's $40 a point to be able to have flexibility. Bear in mind also the points charts for cruises etc are not fixed like DVC resorts and do go up each year.

    Most people would say rent out your points and pay cash to cruise.

    With APs they only have price now - children are charged the same rate as adults. They are generally only cost effective if you are visiting more than once a year. Time in right and you could get 2 trips out of one like a PP said.

    The PAP is not worth buying for children unless you plan on both water and Disney Quest. Just the waterparks you are better off with a regular AP plus a water park AP.

    VWL is not necessarily a better resort but a small resort hence rooms are not freely available for cash booking hence no discounts plus is has boat transportation to MK which adds a premium. It is also a matter of personal preference - we prefer OKW to BCV or BWV but most people would class those as the "better" resorts.

    On your next trip do the sales tour and take some time to visit the resorts and do some more research in to DVC then you can do some sums to see if you feel it is worth it to you :thumbsup2
  7. Wedgeh

    Wedgeh Mouseketeer

    May 29, 2007
    Amen to that, with the amount of points you're looking at buying you could buy yourself a lot of flexibility with the left over cash.

    Also if your vacation patterns change and you decide you might want to sell, you'll be looking at a much smaller hit. It also will reduce your 'break even point' by some distance.

    The annual pass is a pretty good deal compared to the UK passes if you can dove tail 2 trips in, otherwise you'll be better off sticking to the UK passes for now at least. The prices have been accelerating steeply so that might not be true forever...
  8. RDP

    RDP DIS Veteran

    Mar 31, 2008
    As one of the previous replies said, do the tour and take your time. We have a 234 point contract at AKV and love it , we tend to do a points stay one year then a cash and free DDP stay another ( for as long as the DDP lasts) we have no regrets and would consider increasing the contract in the future. Resale does offer considerably better value albeit with some restrictions.

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