Pirates 4 ?

[bumbershoot]

The green flash was him returning from "World's End" for his "once very ten year" time on land. Just like Davy Jones, he can only step on land once every ten years. He is bound to the Dutchman forever, not free at all.

There was a big, long discussion elsewhere on these boards that brought up something interesting (I only read it the other day after FINALLY seeing the movie). One of the people said that s/he had seen an interview with, hmm, maybe Bruckheimer (maybe someone else) that went along with the interesting thing, and they said that there was a deleted scene that explained it...

I don't know if this is "true" or not, but it was interesting. That part of the Flying Dutchman curse is that if your true love waits for you and is there at the 10 years, then the curse of being bound to the ship is lifted (could be why Davy Jones was so upset with Tia/Callypso for not being there?). Of course, he still has no heart (still trying to figure out how he can have no heart but still have, you know, the ability to make a baby, but I digress...and heck, Davy Jones did create tears when sad, so there we are), but he doesn't have to be on the ship for 10 years at a time.

At first I doubted, but then I thought "hey, that's interesting".

I think there are many things they could do with another movie, none of which have to have Bloom or Knightley (her face was getting so tense by the 3rd movie I left with a headache from watching her)...Sparrow, Barbossa...hey, even Beckett. I am not sure I "buy" him deciding that his OWN death would be "good business", he seemed far too narcissistic for that, and as far as I know (and if I'm wrong, please tell me nicely) they never really did explain what "mark" Sparrow had left on him...could be something interesting there. And it seemed that he fell into that water, the water that Callypso is now the goddess over again... I coulnd't stand him in the 2nd movie, but suddenly he became interesting, in a nasty slimy smarmy way, about halfway through the 3rd, and I'd like to see more about him in a movie... can't believe I just typed that.



I am really not usually that into movies that I talk about sequels...but I really liked this one.

 

[JenDisneylandlver]

You know we didn't know to stay until after the credits and COMPLETELY missed the part with her standing there with the son! OMG I can't believe that! Might have to go see it again now! hehe (We just saw finally last weekend).

I'd love to see a 4th. But not without Orlando or Keira. I'm sorry but it just wouldn't be the same, even though I just love Jack Sparrow. The three make it a complete package. Not to mention Orlando is just HOT HOT HOT! ROTFL!

 

[athenna]

I personally did not care for both Bloom and Knightly's characters, but the situation worked for the plot.

Be still my heart No Bloom? Heresy

 

[JadeDarkstar]

ok my take on this
yes there will be a 4th i coulda sworn on interview they said that
I could also see them doing pre quiels ited be cool and a reson why they would use some diffren actors.
I thought jd said he would come back if they wanted him to. same with Orlando..i didnt hear about the girl
I think the 4th will be about his son mostly. and the map and jd will like be the sons mentorer ..kinda..just a guess

 

[LJH77]

Hi everyone! Great debate and just to reinforce what Bumbershoot said, here's what I found on a the website Wikipedia......

After World's End
"The film's writers have allegedly stated that Elizabeth's fidelity to Will during his ten-year absence permanently removes his ties to the Dutchman and therefore he gets his heart back and lives, as explained in a scene between Tia Dalma and Davy Jones, but that this scene was not included in the final cut of the film. [1] They have also stated that it will be included in the deleted scenes when the DVD for the film is released. However, the fans are still left to speculate upon whether Will must return to the sea and his duties after his second day ashore."

This does explain why Davy Jones was so upset that Tia wasn't there after the 10 years to meet him and why he went all mad and stopped ferrying the dead soles to the other world and turned into a fishy-thingy! (oooh that gave me the heeby-jeebies watching that - yuk!!!!)

So who knows if there will be a 4th installment or not! There have been rumours that there will be and then again talk that there won't so I'm just waiting for the DVD to come out so I can watch "Captain" Will Turner over and over again!!....mmmm lovely!!

 

[WeatherbySwann]

In an article from sometime in May on Jim Hill Media, it was reporting all sorts of weid rumors that WDI would eventually change WDW's Adventureland to "Pirate Land" to compete w/ Universal's Harry Potter land . . . although it all sounds like bogus to me---I'll believe it when I see it. I think a fourth film would be great, but I certainly hope that it wouldn't ruin the entire series by overworking it, as many of these Disney "cheapquels" (cheap sequels) tend to do . . .

In the mean time, if anyone is hungry for extra piratey adventures, you might want to check out the Jack Sparrow novels by Rob Kidd . . . they're about Captian Jack as a teenager and surprisingly keep to the spirit of the films quite nicely, and even add Tia Dalma and Davy Jones into things. I know the books are designed for kids, but the series is quite compelling for any fan of the films or attraction. (Also be sure to check out "Bring Me That Horizon: The Making of Pirates" by Michael Singer . . . it's awesome )

PS---Even if there ever was a fourth film, Walt Disney Pictures' slate for summer movies isn't open until 2011 . . . there's Narnia 2 in 2008, Prince of Persia (w/Bruckheimer!) in 2009, Lone Ranger (w/Ted & Terry!) in 2010, and then a possibly Pirates 4 in 2011. So, even if there ever was a #4, we'd have to wait 4 more years . . .

 

[teacups]

When they start making sequels and NOT having the same characters, thats generally when I dont like the movies. Even worse, when the character is still in the movie with a different actors face. EEEK! I liked Bloom (be still my heart!) but his role as well as his cuteness. And Keira, well I was sick and tired of the proper brit stuff anyway, so to see her kick some rear was refreshing to me. And Johnny? No Depp no movie as far as Im concerned.

 

[mrs_leibniz@yahoo.co]

Hi everyone! Great debate and just to reinforce what Bumbershoot said, here's what I found on a the website Wikipedia......

After World's End
"The film's writers have allegedly stated that Elizabeth's fidelity to Will during his ten-year absence permanently removes his ties to the Dutchman and therefore he gets his heart back and lives, as explained in a scene between Tia Dalma and Davy Jones, but that this scene was not included in the final cut of the film. [1] They have also stated that it will be included in the deleted scenes when the DVD for the film is released. However, the fans are still left to speculate upon whether Will must return to the sea and his duties after his second day ashore."

The Wikipedia information you included above is not quite accurate. If you visit the forums at www.Wordplayer.com you'll know that isn't true. In case you are wondering, Wordplayer is Terry Rossio's and Ted Elliott's website. They are the writers of the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy.

Nowhere has it been stated that the Flying Dutchman curse was lifted. At the conclusing of At World's End, we are shown an After the Credits Scene. We see Will return after his first 10 years. Elizabeth is waiting on land with presumably, Will's son. However, there isn't anything in the movie that states the Flying Dutchman curse was lifted. After his one day on land, Will has to go back to doing his job as Captain of the Flying Dutchman. That is, he has to ferry the souls lost at sea to the afterlife.

Over at Wordplayer, Terry Rossio stated that the curse specifications didn't impose any restrictions on Elizabeth (that includes fidelity/chastity/faithfulness). The Captaincy of the Flyting Dutchman is a job that takes place for eternity*, or until there is another person who takes over the position. However, in order to take over the duties of Captain of the Flying Dutchman, the next captain has to stab Will's heart. Just like Will stabbed Davy Jones' heart. If someone else stabs Will's heart, he dies, just like Davy died.

Furthermore, anything to do with a cut scene from At World's End is not considered cannon. As the writers have stated if it isn't in the movie, it isn't cannon. Over at Wordplayer someone named Lauren asked the following.

Posted by Lauren on Wednesday, 13 June 2007, at 12:25 p.m. Hey Ted and Terry! I know y'all are busy, but if you wouldn't mind, do you think you could give us the dialogue or part of the dialogue from the scene that got cut from the movie (the one that explains that Will can stay on land with Liz). I believe that it is a happy ending and I feel that I completely understand this movie- but I would die to see that dialogue Thanks!

Terry Rossio's answer to Lauren:
Posted by Terry on Wednesday, 13 June 2007, at 4:58 p.m., in response to Ted/Terry Request, posted by Lauren on Wednesday, 13 June 2007, at 12:25 p.m.

No, you have to go with what's in the film.@

Source: http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/movies/in...cgi?read=101184



*In AWE, Elizabeth's father, Governor Swann says: "I learned that if you stab the heart, yours must take its place. And you will sail the seas for eternity. The Dutchman must have a Captain. Silly thing to die for." This makes is quite clear the curse is not broken after the first 10 years. Will is an immortal. Ted Elliott even confirms that William's heart can never be physically returned to his chest. Read the following Wordplayer quote:

Posted by Ted Elliott on Tuesday, 29 May 2007, at 5:29 p.m., in response to Why did they cut Will's heart out?, posted by Ruth on Tuesday, 29 May 2007, at 10:02 a.m.

....once Will stabbed the heart, his *had* to take its place in the chest. When he stabbed the heart (with Jack's help), he did it to prevent himself from taking that long journey to wherever Swann and the others went; but the obligation that went along with that choice was, his heart gets cut out and put in the chest. It wasn't an either-or thing.

As to whether or not Will's heart can ever be restored to his body: personally, I don't think so. But I'd be interested in hearing other people's arguments (supported by the text of the movie, of course) to the contrary.

Me DH : DD : DS

 

[JenDisneylandlver]

Yeah I wasn't sure if I believed it either, that after 10 years Will would not be the captain anymore. Who would take his place? Like it says in the movie, "The dutchman always needs a captain". I assumed the only way to change captains would be to stab the heart.

The other thing I was thinking about. In this movie, why not just let Will die? Then they could go back to World's End and get him like they did Jack? Guess that wouldn't have had such a dramatic ending though. LOL

 

[mrs_leibniz@yahoo.co]

The other thing I was thinking about. In this movie, why not just let Will die? Then they could go back to World's End and get him like they did Jack? Guess that wouldn't have had such a dramatic ending though. LOL

I totally agree!








Me DH : DD : DS

 

[jacksparrowfan]

O.k. here's my take. Let's really look at the big picture. Do you all really think they will let Captain Jack Sparrow row off in a tiny boat without his pearl? And not only that Barbossa has a map with a huge hole in it thanks to Jack. They are now after the fountain of youth, and Will tuner is not dead. I think that Orlando Bloom will make a come back and somehow meet up with Jack Sparrow, there must be something in the fountain of youth to release him from the Flying Dutchman right? And not only that, they (Will and Elizabeth) have a child now which will play a big part in POTC4. ANd also let's not forget Elizabeth is the King of the Pirate Lord's and hold a piece of 8 and is now part of the brotheren court. So as I was saying it was already announced in a Japanese newspaper and was confirmed by Disney......Yes part 4 is in talks and will go into production next year and will be set for release in summer of 2009! So,,,,,,,, Drink up me hardies YOHO!

You comment "they (Will and Elizabeth) have a child now..". But is he their child? He looks like the same kid that was at the beginning singing that song when they were being hung. Pirates coming back to life??? Lots of chats on this. I hope there is a 4th. I can't let Jack Sparrow go yet!

Off Topic...TinkerbellTris - Do you think that person in that picture is Johnny Depp? Or do you know this guy who was walking around saying he was Johnny? There is an entire thread on this issue.

 

[LJH77]

The Wikipedia information you included above is not quite accurate. If you visit the forums at www.Wordplayer.com you'll know that isn't true. In case you are wondering, Wordplayer is Terry Rossio's and Ted Elliott's website. They are the writers of the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy.

Ummm hello?? Sorry about that - I don't write Wikipedia I just posted a bit of trivia I'd read that I thought people might quite like to see!! I didn't say it was written in stone or anything - just another bit of info to add to the forum (so to speak). However it seemed to get you quite annoyed Mrs_leibniz so I appologise!!

However I think we may be looking into things a wee bit too much given that it's just a film!

I was just looking for a happy ending that's all.

 

[mrs_leibniz@yahoo.co]

Ummm hello?? Sorry about that - I don't write Wikipedia I just posted a bit of trivia I'd read that I thought people might quite like to see!! I didn't say it was written in stone or anything - just another bit of info to add to the forum (so to speak). However it seemed to get you quite annoyed Mrs_leibniz so I appologise!!

However I think we may be looking into things a wee bit too much given that it's just a film!

I was just looking for a happy ending that's all.

^^ My apologies if I came out as being annoyed and/or rude. I'm a huge POTC fan and I was simply trying to clarify things. Unfortunately AWE doesn't give anybody a happy ending. Believe me when I say this because I've been following the POTC message boards for a while now. I have also frequented the writers' website looking for a clue of a happy ending. Sadly there isn't any. The writers themselves had stated they were going to deliver a 'bittersweet' ending. Since the curse wasn't broken I believe that ending was more bitter than sweet. I was just trying to set the record straight, but again apologies if I came across as being angry with you.






Me DH : DD : DS

 

[athenna]

If I may pop in..Don't throw things at me The curse is broken...Thats the whole point of the after credit scene..Green flash! I have done more than my fair share of research, I moderate a POTC message board, so I know my stuff...And I have read lots of postings from the writer's website...They do like to leave things up to interpretation a lot, but the after credits make it a no doubter.

 

[DangerMouse]

If I may pop in..Don't throw things at me The curse is broken...Thats the whole point of the after credit scene..Green flash! I have done more than my fair share of research, I moderate a POTC message board, so I know my stuff...And I have read lots of postings from the writer's website...They do like to leave things up to interpretation a lot, but the after credits make it a no doubter.

So you're saying that Will has somehow made it to World's End on his own (traded places on the Dutchman with someone else) and somehow he has made it back (hence, the green flash?) Hmmmm, that's an interesting theory. . .

 

[mrs_leibniz@yahoo.co]

If I may pop in..Don't throw things at me The curse is broken...Thats the whole point of the after credit scene..Green flash! I have done more than my fair share of research, I moderate a POTC message board, so I know my stuff...And I have read lots of postings from the writer's website...They do like to leave things up to interpretation a lot, but the after credits make it a no doubter.

Athena: I'm not going to throw anything at you. Btw, what POTC message board are you part of? I'm curious. I'd like to ask if anyone over at that board, or here, can substantiate the claim of a lifted curse with actual posts from Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio. I haven't yet seen anything written by Mr. Elliott and Mr. Rossio saying that the curse was broken. If you can find a Wordplayer.com post from the writers stating that the curse was lifted without a shadow of a doubt, I'd like to see it. In fact there is more evidence to the contrary than there is for a lifted/broken curse. Here's a quote from another poster over at WP and Terry's response admitting the workings of the curse are actually unclear.

>> There were many points of the plot that were not made clear. The way the curse works is a prime example of this.

Terry's response: So in a film with a high degree of plot continuity, spanning three movies, there is one story point that is unclear [meaning the curse]. Okay.

Source: http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/movies/in...cgi?read=102392



Now the Green Flash doesn't necessarily mean Will is back for good. It does signify he has returned after 10 years, but he isn't back for good. As Mr. Gibbs explained, there is a green flash when a soul crosses from one side (realm of the dead) to the other side (realm of the living).

The green flash doesn't mean that soul has crossed over permanently. In DMC for instance we don't see a green flash each time Davy Jones shows up. Davy never left for the Locker/underwold/after life. He wasn't doing his job right. As Terry Rossio explained, that is what ultimately corrupted DJ and his crew. That's why they were squidy, crusteceous, and slimy.

Now for the sake of argument, let's suppose that Will is back from the realm of the dead for good. Let's believe that the curse was broken. By what means was the curse broken? According to Terry Rossio Elizabeth's faithfulness has nothing to do with freeing Will from the Captaincy of the Flying Dutchman. Look here:

>>>The sexist accusation plays out as follows. The message to young women: girls you have to remain chaste/faithful, and true to your man no matter what. Otherwise, he'll turn into an ugly-nasty-mean-fish face monster.

Terry's Response: Ah, got it. Problem with that is that it's just plain inaccurate to the story.

We made it quite clear in the story that Jones is a fish-face because he stopped doing the job he agreed to do.

Will chooses to take on that job. He makes a deal. That deal is he has to Captain the Flying Dutchman, and perform those duties. It's only if Will chooses to abandon that job (which is what Davy Jones did) that he corrupts himself and his person.

Will could choose to abandon the job for any reason, at any time. Yes, Jones chose to abandon it over Calypso. Will does not have to (and wouldn't) make that same choice.

Source: http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/movies/index.cgi?read=98552




If we analyze the implications of a lifted/broken curse the ramifications are daunting. Remember, "The Dutchman must always have a living heart..." If the curse was lifted there are several things that need to be considered:

1. Who replaced William as CotFD? Did Will simply delegate the post? If so, why didn't he do it at the beginning of his tenure as Captain of the Flying Dutchman? Why did he wait to do this 10 years later?

2. Most importantly, what did Will's replacement have to do in order to take over the post of CotFD? Did that individual have to stab the heart? Isn't that the only way to replace the Dutchman's Captaincy? If so, doesn't that mean Will dies?

3. William is an immortal. What are the implications of his condition for Elizabeth and her son? He will live forever, they won't. Isn't that more bitter than sweet? IMHO, it is.





Me: DH: DD: DS:

 

[brenda1966]

The more I'm reading the more I'm agreeing. No happy ending here. Will was stabbed, he was as good as dead. By giving his heart and becoming Captain of the Dutchman, he was able to get a second chance of sorts. He was able to consummate the marriage, produce a child (no one will ever convince me that boy at the end is the same one as the beginning), and see his love Elizabeth once every 10 years. It is bittersweet.

 

[athenna]

Don't want to hyjack the thread anymore than it has been )so sorry to OP!
So, mrs_leibniz@yahoo.co, I will send you a PM tomorrow that will answer some of your specific questions...If anyone else has any questions, feel free to PM me...I just don't want to get this more off topic than it is already
Brenda, if you like, after I compose the aforementioned PM, I can send it to you as well.

 

[mrs_leibniz@yahoo.co]

Athenna while I would appreciate a PM very much, it is sweet of you, should we may be start another thread about this particular topic? It could be named, "Is the Dutchman Curse Broken?" Or if there is already a thread discussing this topic, could you direct me to it? It seems there are others interested in the topic as well. It would be quite difficult to conduct the discussion via PM with everyone. Let me know. Thanks!








Me DH : DD : DS

 

[brenda1966]

I think another thread is a great idea as well. Then we can discuss....