Pink Stuff: Little Girl In Toy Store Rails Against Gender Stereotypes

[diznygirl]

That's right, cigarettes aren't addictive.

Topic - gender stereotypes.



Although this takes the thread on a tangent - I think I'd put Mattel and RJ Reynolds in different categories.



Now back to discussing something other than what advertising said about smoking.......

 

[mamacatnv]

I agree with red part of what you wrote.

But...I don't think we, as parents, need to teach them society's expectaions. I think they learn enough from the media...school...etc. I feel like if we teach them these "expectations", they will feel like these are OUR expectaions and I really have none for my kids, besides to be the best person THEY can be. KWIM?

***I am pretty ignorant about these things since my kids are still only 4...But this is what I THINK.

They do learn from all the areas you mentioned but I do think its important to know what we, their parents think. I think its important that we temper what they learn via media with our own insights, morals etc. We as parents have huge influence on our children and while they are surrounded by all sorts of messages I think it is important that they know what we think and help them navigate the messages that are all around them.

Of course we all want our children to be the best person they can be but IMO that is not for them to decide all on their own. They need guidance, expectations, rules, standards etc. and to allow the media, their schools, friends etc. to be the main influence without our influence as parents takes away a large roll that we have as parents IMO.

 

[Uncle Remus]

They do learn from all the areas you mentioned but I do think its important to know what we, their parents think. I think its important that we temper what they learn via media with our own insights, morals etc. We as parents have huge influence on our children and while they are surrounded by all sorts of messages I think it is important that they know what we think and help them navigate the messages that are all around them.

Of course we all want our children to be the best person they can be but IMO that is not for them to decide all on their own. They need guidance, expectations, rules, standards etc. and to allow the media, their schools, friends etc. to be the main influence without our influence as parents takes away a large roll that we have as parents IMO.

This.

And most times it's a constant battle against the ubiquitous messages out there.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

They do learn from all the areas you mentioned but I do think its important to know what we, their parents think. I think its important that we temper what they learn via media with our own insights, morals etc. We as parents have huge influence on our children and while they are surrounded by all sorts of messages I think it is important that they know what we think and help them navigate the messages that are all around them.

Of course we all want our children to be the best person they can be but IMO that is not for them to decide all on their own. They need guidance, expectations, rules, standards etc. and to allow the media, their schools, friends etc. to be the main influence without our influence as parents takes away a large roll that we have as parents IMO.

You are right. We, as parents, have the biggest influence.

 

[alizesmom]

Raise several children and you will find that the child will choose their style. Some girls choose to be girly, some don't. Some boys are more masculine than others.

Genetically and hormonally they are definitely different and their brains work in a totally different manner. Women are more likely to think about how things connect while men are apt to compartmentalize their thinking. Behaviors can be taught, men can be shown how to nuture people and women can be taught to be assertive. To some of us this comes quite naturally.

 

[cornflake]

Physical makes up a big part. Males are stronger, built differently, have different brain chemistry, different hormones etc. While the majority of this is part of the physical makeup it does influence how they think, play, react, learn etc.
Can/should boys play with girl toys and visversa? Sure, why not, I think it helps them develop their sense of self.

Should children be taught that society has expectations? IMO, yes
Should children be taught that while we may not agree with those expectations they must make the decisions to buck the expectations and in doing so should understand the ramifications? IMO, Yes

You undermine your entire argument right there.

There are some physiological differences, but they're also very individual - everyone knows women bigger, stronger, etc., than some men they know, etc.

However, the idea that there are 'girl toys' and 'boy toys' is wholly invented and accepting that there's some basis in reality that dolls are 'girl toys' or whatever, and trucks are 'boy toys' or that *specific* dolls are not dolls but "action figures" and thus 'boy toys' and etc., is promoting the riidiculous, sexist, very culturally and temporally specific expectations.

Same as the 'pink is for girls' idiocy that's only like 100 years old, as before that, everyone knew that blue was for girls. People accept it as axiom and move on, but it underpins an entire assumptive mess.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Topic - gender stereotypes.



Although this takes the thread on a tangent - I think I'd put Mattel and RJ Reynolds in different categories.



Now back to discussing something other than what advertising said about smoking.......

Sorry you can't see beyond your interpretation, but Barbie has a lot of detrimental influence on li'l boys 'n girls just like cigarettes were advertised to calm the nerves, relieve stress. It's about manipulation to conformity for the benefit of corporate stockholders.

 

[mamacatnv]

You undermine your entire argument right there.

There are some physiological differences, but they're also very individual - everyone knows women bigger, stronger, etc., than some men they know, etc.

However, the idea that there are 'girl toys' and 'boy toys' is wholly invented and accepting that there's some basis in reality that dolls are 'girl toys' or whatever, and trucks are 'boy toys' or that *specific* dolls are not dolls but "action figures" and thus 'boy toys' and etc., is promoting the riidiculous, sexist, very culturally and temporally specific expectations.

Same as the 'pink is for girls' idiocy that's only like 100 years old, as before that, everyone knew that blue was for girls. People accept it as axiom and move on, but it underpins an entire assumptive mess.

The fact remains, there are "girl" toys and "boy" toys for consumers to choose from. I am not undermining my own argument, I said I don't have an issue with it.

 

[cornflake]

Sorry you can't see beyond your interpretation, but Barbie has a lot of detrimental influence on li'l boys 'n girls just like cigarettes were advertised to calm the nerves, relieve stress. It's about manipulation to conformity for the benefit of corporate stockholders.

What're you talking about? Barbie's fine!

Barbie, if you grew her, proportionally. -

 

[hereyago]

I loved me some barbies, but I also loved me some Evel Knevel (child of the 70's here)

So I would also get cars and big plastic cars, take the barbies and make them do stunts with ramps,lol.

You know what I found out? um, the barbie camper really wasn't suitable for that ,lol.

I had a beautiful purple bke complete with banana seat and sissy handle bars and I would do tricks with it,until i did one too many tricks, oops.



And I used to love to pretend i was batgirl, took a robe tied to be a cape, jumped up and down on my parents bed and knocked myself pretty much silly, spent hours at the er with people asking me the same thing over and over, ha ha. that was the end of my batgirl career. i then moved on to wonder woman and started lassoing everything and riding in my invisible plane.

I didn't feel compelled to want one sort of toy over the other.

 

[Uncle Remus]

What're you talking about? Barbie's fine!

Barbie, if you grew her, proportionally. -

Lord, that's enough to scare me straight!!

 

[merryweather20]

I have an Easy Bake Oven on my shelf right now. Its grey and blue. Sure the Easy Bake Oven was pink this year, but if colour was such a big issue, you could have bought the green and white Barbie oven that came in a blue box, or the black and orange Creepy Crawly Oven in a black box. How much choice in ovens do the kids really need? Or is everything fine as long as there is no dreadful pink, ever under any circumstances?

By the way... All those toy ovens? They weren't on a girl or boy aisle, they were on the cooking aisle. Someone mentioned CARS toiys earlier in the thread. I've bought those before... they weren't on a girl or boy aisle, they were on an aisle with... wait for it... other cars

I bought my niece a duplo hospital, and her grandpa bought her a duplo train. No one cared a bit about her gender when we were shopping. We simply asked where they Duplo/Lego stuff was.

As for pink clothes, everyone in my family was complaining that the children's clothes were all black this year. When she was a premie all I could find were white and pastel yellow onesies. That is exactly like when I was little and I remember shopping with my Mom. Whether she was shopping for us, or friends and family they never had the colour she was looking for.

Barbie was a close personal friend growing up. I'm pretty sure I'm not "damaged" (but thanks for that anyway). You can take the briefest of looks and see that her shoulders and head aren't Barbie proportion so I can only imagine how they came up with the bust . Nevermind that she's a toy, not an anatomical model, that's why her feet are like tiny darts for pant legs. Growing up she looked exactly like my Aunt. All the Moms I knew stayed at home or taugh elementary school, so it was nice knowing Barbie and friends who had endless career options.

 

[Becky2005]

There is really NOT a whole lot though. Almost all packaging of "girl" toys are some form of pink...And I would say 65% of clothes are mostly pink.

OK --- maybe for the younger ones but umm...a LOT of teen clothes are NOT pink..although pink & skulls seems an interesting combo.

I don't know this argument has been going on forever and I'm sure will go on long after I've died. I remember the research being done when I was a kid. Just seems if a 3-year old is being videotaped for it and then interviewed...seems more like the parents are more involved in that decision than the child.

Frankly, if no one bought it then it wouldn't sell and they would change it. As a matter of fact, I remember them attempting to change some of the stuff once and it bombed -- I distinctly remember the BOY doll they had that was to be marketed to boys and my nephew had one! It was a big one too. It didn't sell particularly well.

I also vaguely remember some sort of opposite one where a traditionally boy toy was then targeted to girls and well...it didn't go over so well.

In general, frankly -- I think some of it is just nature. Boys are wired differently than girls and I don't care how much they try to tell us we are supposed to be identical.

I also remember playing Barbies growing up -- although when I played with my brother, we tended to pop their heads off -- which became a problem when we tried to put their heads back ON...the only one we knew was correct was Ken's head.

Eh...maybe it's because I have 4 kids and when you have so many toys you don't even know where to put them -- it doesn't matter if it's supposed to be "boy" or "girl".

 

[YodaGirl]

OK --- maybe for the younger ones but umm...a LOT of teen clothes are NOT pink..although pink & skulls seems an interesting combo.

I don't know this argument has been going on forever and I'm sure will go on long after I've died. I remember the research being done when I was a kid. Just seems if a 3-year old is being videotaped for it and then interviewed...seems more like the parents are more involved in that decision than the child.

Frankly, if no one bought it then it wouldn't sell and they would change it. As a matter of fact, I remember them attempting to change some of the stuff once and it bombed -- I distinctly remember the BOY doll they had that was to be marketed to boys and my nephew had one! It was a big one too. It didn't sell particularly well.

I also vaguely remember some sort of opposite one where a traditionally boy toy was then targeted to girls and well...it didn't go over so well.

In general, frankly -- I think some of it is just nature. Boys are wired differently than girls and I don't care how much they try to tell us we are supposed to be identical.

I also remember playing Barbies growing up -- although when I played with my brother, we tended to pop their heads off -- which became a problem when we tried to put their heads back ON...the only one we knew was correct was Ken's head.

Eh...maybe it's because I have 4 kids and when you have so many toys you don't even know where to put them -- it doesn't matter if it's supposed to be "boy" or "girl".

DH had a My Buddy doll (I'm assuming that's the one you're talking about?). I think the doll met his demise somewhere between the back of a 4-wheeler and a bonfire.

I do remember my brother being awfully fond of his cabbage patch kid (the year that they were really popular), but that didn't last too long.

 

[Becky2005]

DH had a My Buddy doll (I'm assuming that's the one you're talking about?). I think the doll met his demise somewhere between the back of a 4-wheeler and a bonfire.

I do remember my brother being awfully fond of his cabbage patch kid (the year that they were really popular), but that didn't last too long.

YES! My Buddy! That was the name!

 

[goodstarr]

I'm certainly no expert, and I do know that the chemical makeup of the sexes is different, but I also believe that society "primes" kids towards different gender roles from the womb.

Now that technology has made it so that we know the sex of our baby before it's born, we start talking to the baby in utero, and people speak to boy babies differently than to girl babies. They decorate the rooms differently and buy the clothes differently.

As soon as the baby is born, they are treated differently (if a girl cries, people tend to coddle her and feel sympathy - boys cry and people hush them differently - more abruptly and tend to say things like "oh you're ok") Remember, this is in general, as I have watched literally thousands of new parents bring babies into the world. I'm sure there are many Disers who will tell me that their experiences were different.

These are just a couple of small examples of how nurture really influences the outcome of the sexes, far more than nature (I believe).

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

I'm certainly no expert, and I do know that the chemical makeup of the sexes is different, but I also believe that society "primes" kids towards different gender roles from the womb.

Now that technology has made it so that we know the sex of our baby before it's born, we start talking to the baby in utero, and people speak to boy babies differently than to girl babies. They decorate the rooms differently and buy the clothes differently.

As soon as the baby is born, they are treated differently (if a girl cries, people tend to coddle her and feel sympathy - boys cry and people hush them differently - more abruptly and tend to say things like "oh you're ok") Remember, this is in general, as I have watched literally thousands of new parents bring babies into the world. I'm sure there are many Disers who will tell me that their experiences were different.

These are just a couple of small examples of how nurture really influences the outcome of the sexes, far more than nature (I believe).

I absolutely agree with you.

Perfect example:

DH is NOT amused or sympethetic when DS cries. He tells him to toughen up or relax...DD cries and the world stops. Most of his family is like that as well. Boys are tough...football playing manly men. Girls are tutu wearing sensitive, little princesses.

I am having the hardest time teaching DH to treat them the same way. (Please DO NOT think DH is "mean" to DS or loves him any less...He doesn't, but he DOES treat them a little different.)

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

This entire gender stereotyping thing is just another agenda to push and make society accept other agendas in my opinion.
When did it become bad to want to be feminine and want girly things? Why is bad that a girl wants pink items?

Yes some girls don't like pink or purple but some girls do and it should not be shameful or looked down on and that is what is starting to happen. People are trying to say little girls shouldn't like pink. Gender exist for a reason!

DD gets princess dresses, dolls, trucks and cars. She likes pink and i'm not going to tell her know just because someone thinks it's wrong.

 

[cornflake]

This entire gender stereotyping thing is just another agenda to push and make society accept other agendas in my opinion.
When did it become bad to want to be feminine and want girly things? Why is bad that a girl wants pink items?

Yes some girls don't like pink or purple but some girls do and it should not be shameful or looked down on and that is what is starting to happen. People are trying to say little girls shouldn't like pink. Gender exist for a reason!

Huh?

The point is that pink isn't "feminine" or "girly" and has nothing to do with gender, it's a societal construct that associates the two.

Also that there are toys divided into "girl toys" and "boy toys" and the "girl toy" aisles are nearly entirely pink, and dedicated to these stereotypical things and etc...

 

[PeterPan09]

This entire gender stereotyping thing is just another agenda to push and make society accept other agendas in my opinion.
When did it become bad to want to be feminine and want girly things? Why is bad that a girl wants pink items?

Yes some girls don't like pink or purple but some girls do and it should not be shameful or looked down on and that is what is starting to happen. People are trying to say little girls shouldn't like pink. Gender exist for a reason!

DD gets princess dresses, dolls, trucks and cars. She likes pink and i'm not going to tell her know just because someone thinks it's wrong.

Why is it "bad" when girls aren't feminine and don't want girly things?

It shouldn't be bad for a girl to want pink girly girl stuff or to not want it. However, it definitely still is worse not to want it than it is to want it.