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petition in favor of banning nativity

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In the end Zip...the separation of church and state is not an "opinion".

If it were an "opinion"...my "opinion" would hold no more weight than yours.

Evidently some antecedents have gotten mixed up in the fast-moving thread and I should have ben more clear. The "opinion" I referenced was UR's assertion that religion belongs only in churches, mosques, etc. I find that statement to be patently untrue... in my opinion, of course.
 
You said the only religious symbols people wanted to complain about are Christian symbols. That's false. My own statement alone proves that. Read the others on this very thread.

It has NOTHING to do with the majority. Your statement is simply false.

Ok, MOST of the complaints are about Christian symbols. And your one opinion does not change that. You may object to ALL relegious symbols, but most of the time the protests are about Christian symbols.
 


I was noticing the same thing about this thread. Lots of bait laid out there about other religious symbols, but no one is taking it.


If it's on public property, it's not acceptable. I don't care what religion it is.

Don't even get me started on those morons who put the 10 commandments in the courthouse in AL (?) a few years ago.
 
Here's some other religious symbol problems::

At the Veterans Memorial Cemetery in the small town of Fernley, Nev., there is a wall of brass plaques for local heroes. But one space is blank. There is no memorial for Sgt. Patrick D. Stewart.

That's because Stewart was a Wiccan, and the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs has refused to allow a symbol of the Wicca religion -- a five-pointed star within a circle, called a pentacle -- to be inscribed on U.S. military memorials or grave markers.

The department has approved the symbols of 38 other faiths; about half of are versions of the Christian cross. It also allows the Jewish Star of David, the Muslim crescent, the Buddhist wheel, the Mormon angel, the nine-pointed star of Bahai and something that looks like an atomic symbol for atheists.

Stewart, 34, is believed to be the first Wiccan killed in combat. He was serving in the Nevada National Guard when the helicopter in which he was riding was shot down in Afghanistan last September. He previously had served in the Army in Korea and Operation Desert Storm. He was posthumously awarded a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star.

His widow, Roberta Stewart, scattered his ashes in the hills above Reno and would like him to have a permanent memorial.

She said the veterans cemetery in Fernley offered to install a plaque with his name and no religious symbol. She refused.

"Once they do that, they'll forget me. They don't like having a hole in the wall," she said. "I feel very strongly that my husband fought for the Constitution of the United States, he was proud of his spirituality and of being a Wiccan, and he was proud of being an American."

Wicca is one of the fastest-growing faiths in the country. Its adherents have increased almost 17-fold from 8,000 in 1990 to 134,000 in 2001, according to the American Religious Identification Survey. The Pentagon says that more than 1,800 Wiccans are on active duty in the armed forces.

Wiccans still suffer, however, from the misconception that they are devil worshipers. Some Wiccans call themselves witches, pagans or neopagans. Most of their rituals revolve around the cycles of nature, such as equinoxes and phases of the moon. Wiccans often pick and choose among religioustraditions, blending belief in reincarnation and feminine gods with ritual dancing, chanting and herbal medicine.

Federal courts have recognized Wicca as a religion since 1986. Prisons across the country treat it as a legitimate faith, as do the Internal Revenue Service and the U.S. military, which allows Wiccan ceremonies on its bases.
"My husband's dog tags said 'Wiccan' on them," Stewart noted.

But applications from Wiccan groups and individuals to VA for use of the pentacle on grave markers have been pending for nine years, during which time the symbols of 11 other faiths have been approved.

Department spokeswoman Josephine Schuda said VA turned down Wiccans in the past because religious groups used to be required to list a headquarters or central authority, which Wicca does not have. But that requirement was eliminated last year, she noted.

"I really have no idea why it has taken so long" for the Wiccan symbol to gain approval, Schuda said.

The department declined repeated requests from The Washington Post to speak to higher-ranking officials about the issue.

Retired Army Chaplain William Chrystal, a United Church of Christ minister who was chaplain of Stewart's National Guard unit, has strongly backed Roberta Stewart's request.

"It's such a clear First Amendment issue, I can't even conceive of why they are not granting it, except for political reasons," he said. "I think the powers that be are afraid they'll alienate conservative Christians
if they approve a symbol that connotes witches and warlocks casting spells and brewing potions."
 
Evidently some antecedents have gotten mixed up in the fast-moving thread and I should have ben more clear. The "opinion" I referenced was UR's assertion that religion belongs only in churches, mosques, etc. I find that statement to be patently untrue... in my opinion, of course.

I would never speak for Uncle R...but I'm pretty sure Uncle was still referring to the topic of this thread. Hence...separation of church and state.

Ok, MOST of the complaints are about Christian symbols. And your one opinion does not change that. You may object to ALL relegious symbols, but most of the time the protests are about Christian symbols.

And I stand by my statement. Those that wish to uphold the separation of church and state, hold that opinion no matter which religious symbols, etc are being discussed.
 


To all those who feel non-Christians are denying you the right to display your symbols or practice your faith, can you answer these questions?

Why are you ignoring the fact that the heart of this discussion is NOT denying Christians the right to display a Nativity, but rather the inappropriateness of a government entity using public funds do display one?

Who is actually denying you the right to display your symbols? Has anyone ever said you may not display one on your personaly property?

Can you give concrete examples of this suppression of which you speak?

Why do you need to have a Nativity on publicly funded property? Why the need for that validation?
 
I didn't read past the first post but here's my 2 cents.
Let's ban everything. Someone is always offended. Seriously, instead of going about our days and being tolerant of different beliefs let's just ban everything. That's where we are headed unfortunately.:sad2:
 
If it's on public property, it's not acceptable. I don't care what religion it is.

Don't even get me started on those morons who put the 10 commandments in the courthouse in AL (?) a few years ago.

Yeah, it would be such a shame if some "moron" actually read them and thought to try and follow them. What exactly were they hurting?
 
If it's on public property, it's not acceptable. I don't care what religion it is.

Don't even get me started on those morons who put the 10 commandments in the courthouse in AL (?) a few years ago.

We have copies of the Ten Commandments all over our town. Even the local restaurants all have marble Ten Commandments outside. This "moron" likes that and tries to follow them. We are "one nation under God" according to the Pledge of Allegiance.
 
Evidently some antecedents have gotten mixed up in the fast-moving thread and I should have ben more clear. The "opinion" I referenced was UR's assertion that religion belongs only in churches, mosques, etc. I find that statement to be patently untrue... in my opinion, of course.

Oh good, now we have 2 opinions, yours 'n mine. :goodvibes
 
If it's on public property, it's not acceptable. I don't care what religion it is.

I can totally understand that. But what about the ones who are offended by non religious things like Santa or a Christmas tree. Totally non religous yet, with the way it is, someone would get offended. Wouldn't it be better to just ban any mention or decoration of a holiday? It seems that is where it is headed.:confused3
 
Yeah, it would be such a shame if some "moron" actually read them and thought to try and follow them. What exactly were they hurting?

This is the same issue as we have been discussing here.

Separation of church and state.
 
We have copies of the Ten Commandments all over our town. Even the local restaurants all have marble Ten Commandments outside. This "moron" likes that and tries to follow them. We are "one nation under God" according to the Pledge of Allegiance.

LOL, everyone down here has a picture of themselves with George Bush.

Well, everyone except me. :lmao:
 
We have copies of the Ten Commandments all over our town. Even the local restaurants all have marble Ten Commandments outside. We are "one nation under God" according to the Pledge of Allegiance.

Restaurants are private property.

The origiinal Pledge of Allegiance did not even have the phrase "one nation under G-d". That was not the intent of the writer of the pledge. Somehow, the nation managed to get by without those words in it for 60 years.
 
LOL, everyone down here has a picture of themselves with George Bush.

Well, everyone except me. :lmao:

Here too. I walked into my docs office the other day and he has his blown up and in the waiting room.
 
You need to research just why Dec 25 was chosen as Christmas and you need to realize that Christmas in not the only (nor is it the original) holiday celebrated in late Dec.
If the city will not take the nativity scene down, they need to put up symbols to celebrate all holidays celebrated this time of year. by only displaying a Christan holiday display, the city government is in fact sponsoring the Christian religion.

I agree. Have symbols available for all of the main religious holidays of all faiths.
Children learning tolerance is not a bad thing.
 
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