petition in favor of banning nativity

[Mom2Nick]

Okay, I want to understand something.

So people want to celebrate Christmas (gifts and stuff) but who cares about WHY it's celebrated? Isn't the nativity a depiction of the reason we celebrate it in the first place???

Okay, I guess we should just call it SOMETHINGmas!

You don't get to decide what Christmas means for other people. You only get to decide what it means for you and what and how you will be celebrating the day with your family.

I would have no problem signing that petition as I also believe in a seperation between church and state.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

Okay, I want to understand something.

So people want to celebrate Christmas (gifts and stuff) but who cares about WHY it's celebrated? Isn't the nativity a depiction of the reason we celebrate it in the first place???

Okay, I guess we should just call it SOMETHINGmas!

That's not the point.

The point is that in the US, there is supposed to be a separation between religion and state.

The town wants to use tax payer's money to put up a religious symbol on government owned land.

It would be something different if they would put up other seasonal religious symbols in the same place. Then they wouldn't be pushing one religion over another.

I am Christian and I believe in a separation between church and state.

 

[Goofyluver]

I don't understand why governments are allowed to put up non-religious depictions of Christmas (i.e., Santa)...but right next to Santa is a menorah. Isn't that a symbol of a religious holiday?

Like I said...I don't think any government should be allowed to display religious symbols of any faith. Whether that be a menorah or baby Jesus...it doesn't belong in a government building, on government property, and should not be paid for with government money.

 

[Slapstick]

With separation of Church and state the Nativity does not belong on government property. It gives the appearance that Christianity is their only recognized religion. There are a lot of Holiday's celebrated by different faiths in December..inclusive means all.

There are numerous secular decorations that can be used to join in the excitement of the season.

The Birth of Christ is the reason for Christmas and I have no doubt every church will have one set up.

BTW..For anyone visiting NYC St Patrick's Cathedral has a gorgeous one!

Deck the Halls! Your own...

 

[ilisao]

I don't understand why governments are allowed to put up non-religious depictions of Christmas (i.e., Santa)...but right next to Santa is a menorah. Isn't that a symbol of a religious holiday?

As a Jew, I don't believe a menorah should be put up. A government should not be involved in the promotion of any religious holiday.

Then again, I don't need the government to validate my religion. My family and I - and our religious community - create our own traditions and celebrations.

 

[Castlebound]

Many people who celebrate Christmas celebrate it in a secular manner. For them it is a holiday about spending time with family and getting gifts. There is nothing wrong with that. Those of us who are Christian center Christmas around Christ. There is a live nativity in our town that the KCs set up on the lawn of a private business. The city pays nothing towards it. There is a Christmas tree at city hall and a small Santa house for kids to visit Santa during Santa's visiting hours. Both the tree and Santa can be veiwed as secular.

 

[John Smith1]

That's not the point.

The point is that in the US, there is supposed to be a separation between religion and state.

The town wants to use tax payer's money to put up a religious symbol on government owned land.

It would be something different if they would put up other seasonal religious symbols in the same place. Then they wouldn't be pushing one religion over another.

I am Christian and I believe in a separation between church and state.

Okay, I guess that's the point.

I guess the separation is the key. Personally I never separate it from my life so I guess I'm not in that mindset. I also think that there are WAY bigger things to write petitions about.

The problem is "religion" and politics are people's hot buttons. People either are comforted and interested in it or annoyed and upset about it. That i understand.

 

[OrlandoMike]

Wow this showed up on the first page, I didn't expect it till later.

Hey I didn't say it was right or wrong, just the way it is.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

That's not the point.

The point is that in the US, there is supposed to be a separation between religion and state.

The town wants to use tax payer's money to put up a religious symbol on government owned land.

It would be something different if they would put up other seasonal religious symbols in the same place. Then they wouldn't be pushing one religion over another.

I am Christian and I believe in a separation between church and state.

With separation of Church and state the Nativity does not belong on government property. It gives the appearance that Christianity is their only recognized religion. There are a lot of Holiday's celebrated by different faiths in December..inclusive means all.

There are numerous secular decorations that can be used to join in the excitement of the season.

The Birth of Christ is the reason for Christmas and I have no doubt every church will have one set up.

BTW..For anyone visiting NYC St Patrick's Cathedral has a gorgeous one!

Deck the Halls! Your own...

Well we don't know if the town was displaying other religious symbols alongside the nativity. It seems though that some are alright with the displays as long as all religions are represented, and some don't want it under any circumstances.

 

[ols386]

Personally, I don't see a problem with displaying the nativity scene. I understand what some are saying about it being government property, but I don't see how it's offensive. People will have their own religilous beliefs whether there is a nativity scene or not. I think the whole church and state separation thing gets exagerated at times. Kind of like, when they say that it isn't politically correct to say Merry Christmas..and that we should be saying Happy Holidays instead...I think that's bit exagerated. But then, I'm sure sometimes I'm not politically correct.

 

[Mom2Nick]

Okay, I guess that's the point.

I guess the separation is the key. Personally I never separate it from my life so I guess I'm not in that mindset. I also think that there are WAY bigger things to write petitions about.

The problem is "religion" and politics are people's hot buttons. People either are comforted and interested in it or annoyed and upset about it. That i understand.

Think about other people that also do not seperate their religion and beliefs from their life. Other taxpayers that have their dollars going towards a display that has nothing to do with them - and then what THEY believe in is not represented at all.

I know our country was founded on Christianity - but we are so much more than that now and we need to either recognize ALL - or none and obviously none is easier.

 

[Tiggeroo]

sorry but this bothers me. It's Christmas which means a nativity scene is appropriate. They should display a menorah at Hannukah as well and as a Christian I won't be destroyed. I love looking at displays of other cultures and faiths. I don't think there is anything wrong with a town displaying the holiday symbols of the faiths that are dominant in their town. When did we become so thin skinned that we can't bear to look at displays from other religions and if the town has them up that must mean they are saying this is the one true way?

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Think about other people that also do not seperate their religion and beliefs from their life. Other taxpayers that have their dollars going towards a display that has nothing to do with them - and then what THEY believe in is not represented at all.

I know our country was founded on Christianity - but we are so much more than that now and we need to either recognize ALL - or none and obviously none is easier.

Not all of my tax dollars go towards things I believe in.

 

[ilisao]

Personally, I don't see a problem with displaying the nativity scene. I understand what some are saying about it being government property, but I don't see how it's offensive. People will have their own religilous beliefs whether there is a nativity scene or not. I think the whole church and state separation thing gets exagerated at times. Kind of like, when they say that it isn't politically correct to say Merry Christmas..and that we should be saying Happy Holidays instead...I think that's bit exagerated. But then, I'm sure sometimes I'm not politically correct.

Using public funds to erect a religious symbol is inappropriate. Erecting such a symbol on public property is inappropriate. Note I said inappropriate and not unconstitutional. It gives the appearance - intentional or not - of endorsement of one particular religion as official.

No one is saying nativities should be banned completely. They just should not be on public property.

Why do people need to see a Nativity on public property anyway? Why can't they be satified with it just on private property?

 

[OrlandoMike]

When did we become so thin skinned that we can't bear to look at displays from other religions and if the town has them up that must mean they are saying this is the one true way?

For me it's not a matter of not wanting to look at it, or displaying other religions. It's a matter of where my tax dollars are going. I can think of a hundred other things that my tax money should be going to besides this. And if we start including every religion, eventually we will have one department in every town that does nothing but decorate the lawn of city hall for each and every religious holiday. I'd rather see these city employees doing more productive things with their time then decorating lawns on my tax payer dime.

 

[TLSnell1981]

rolleyes1:I thought we were supposed to be moving towards a more inclusive society.

There ya' go...."thinking" again.

Christmas has very little to do with the birth of Christ these days....

When did shopping yourself into debt become a religious act?

Not everyone does this. I admit I am very generous at Christmas but I can afford it. I also have taught my kids.. it's not the $$$ you spend that makes a gift great. I spend every Christmas helping my DGD bake "goodies" for Christmas gifts.

 

[Slapstick]

If I know the person I am addressing is Christian I say Merry Christmas. If I know they are Jewish I say Happy Hanukkah. If I am uncertain, I say Happy Holiday's! No one has ever been offended.

 

[Master Mason]

If he were in my town, I would have signed the petition as well.

There's a little ol' thing called separation of church and state. I do not think any city government has the right to display religious symbols of any kind.

The problem with that as always is there is no seperation of church and state. It says congress shall pass no laws regarding the establishement of any religion of the free exersise there of. No where in those words does it say seperation of church and state.

 

[ilisao]

sorry but this bothers me. It's Christmas which means a nativity scene is appropriate. They should display a menorah at Hannukah as well and as a Christian I won't be destroyed. I love looking at displays of other cultures and faiths. I don't think there is anything wrong with a town displaying the holiday symbols of the faiths that are dominant in their town. When did we become so thin skinned that we can't bear to look at displays from other religions and if the town has them up that must mean they are saying this is the one true way?

Frankly, I think people are thick headed if they actually believe those of us who don't want religious symbols on public property "can't bear to look at them." That is totally misunderstanding the issue.

I can bear to look at Nativity scenes quite well. I see them all the time in front of homes and churches and don't melt or run screaming. I am sure people see my menorahs in my window and manage just fine. The issue is the use of taxpayer money to erect religious symbols. I personally believe this is completely inappropriate.

 

[ilisao]

The problem with that as always is there is no seperation of church and state. It says congress shall pass no laws regarding the establishement of any religion of the free exersise there of. No where in those words does it say seperation of church and state.

Using public funds to promote religion gives the appearance of an official endorsement of religion.