Pete's rant on today's live video podcast

[Lurch]

Never said that. I do believe that ADHD is marginal and exaggerated however and people getting DAS/GAC for that is abuse. I question the need of someone on the high end of the spectrum like Aspergers to have a DAS.

I understand the plight of some of the most disadvantaged among us. I care a great deal about them and personally volunteer to help them (Hospice patient care and ARC just about anything and everything at this point). However, some of the entitlement I see here makes me ill. Go read "Autism Hippie's" Facebook page and you tell me if you don't think there is a problem. I contrast attitude with that of the parents I know and can't help but think that those people make things so much more difficult for others.

Also, per the rant, you are not disabled so you don't get an opinion. I don't agree with it but there it is.

So autism is a marginal or exaggerated issue? I have no words for that. It just illustrates how little understanding you have of the disorder.

And ftr, no, I am not autistic nor has my child been diagnosed with autism. I have, however, taught autistic children and also have friends with autistic children. As Pete said in his rant, they are wonderful children and are a gift. Their condition, though, is hardly marginal or exaggerated.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Never said that. I do believe that ADHD is marginal and exaggerated however and people getting DAS/GAC for that is abuse. I question the need of someone on the high end of the spectrum like Aspergers to have a DAS.

Which is why the ADA is in place. It's not up to the rest of us to decide whether or not a person's condition is "bad enough" to require accommodation. Even within the Asperger's diagnosis there is a huge variable in a person's ability to function. Just because one person with Asperger's could be OK at Disney without accommodation doesn't mean everyone with Asperger's would be the same. That is no different than seeing someone in a wheelchair stand or walk for a very short amount of time and saying "well, they can obviously walk, they must not really need their wheelchair here at Disney" - when in fact the person really does need the wheelchair.

I understand the plight of some of the most disadvantaged among us. I care a great deal about them and personally volunteer to help them (Hospice patient care and ARC just about anything and everything at this point). However, some of the entitlement I see here makes me ill.

Some of the entitlement where? in this thread?

Go read "Autism Hippie's" Facebook page and you tell me if you don't think there is a problem.

I'm not going to bother. There are people who abuse everything. The fact that some abuse something doesn't mean that those who really need it shouldn't get it, or that it should become exponentially more difficult for them to obtain.

I contrast attitude with that of the parents I know and can't help but think that those people make things so much more difficult for others.

Attitudes like those you've expressed in this thread also make it much more difficult for others.

Also, per the rant, you are not disabled so you don't get an opinion. I don't agree with it but there it is.

I'm not disabled, but my daughter is developmentally delayed. She is 21 months and not walking or crawling or standing, nor is she talking. We very well may have to look into a Stroller as a Wheelchair accommodation the next time we visit any type of theme park (Disney or otherwise), because she is getting too heavy for me to carry for any significant length of time (like a 30+ min SB line). She has no issues being in lines, so I would not ask for (or expect) a DAS card, but I would need physical accommodations for her if she is not yet walking/standing on her own by the time we go.

Trust me when I say I pray every day that I won't have to ever ask for those accommodations - that she will catch up and be walking/talking and running around before it is something we have to think about. It is incredibly difficult to bring her to classes (like Gymboree play and learn classes) that are separated by age and have to have her in a class for kids who are 1/3- 1/2 of her age because that is where her development is at. I would give anything for everything to not be so difficult for her. If someone ever spoke to me the way that they are in the comments about the Hershey Park article (where the child in question needed a stroller as a wheelchair, as my DD might), I cannot even begin to tell you how hurt and angry I would be. TBH, just reading those comments makes me very frustrated.

I thought about going into all of that in my first post, and thought otherwise. Personally, my interpretation of Pete's rant was that if you're not disabled, and you don't think disabled people deserve certain accommodations - that's when your opinion doesn't count. I'm pretty sure Pete (and others) are quite tolerant of the opinions of those who may not be disabled but who have compassion and understanding for those who are.

 

[Kristina4109]

My daughter has ADHD. Her issues never included an inability to stand in a line, however, before we found a good treatment for her, she would often move around so much while waiting in line that she would bump into other people and invade their personal space without meaning to. Of course we would correct her and apologize on her behalf, but it was not fun. We never opted to try for a GAC or DAS, and now that's she's on a good treatment regimen, it's no longer an issue anyway.

HOWEVER. Many people do not understand that ADHD, like autism, is on a spectrum. Although my daughter does not need special accommodations while in a theme park, there is no question in my mind that others with ADHD do. It is very difficult to throw a blanket over the situation and think that one size fits all. I personally know children who absolutely need special accommodations.

 

[dkrauss]

I went back and listened to Pete's rant again. Again I completely agree with his point.

I also tend to agree with his comment about people who don't have a disability or aren't dealing with a close family member or friend with a disability don't get a vote.........How can you complain about a policy in place to help the disabled, so calously(sp)....which is what is ticking him and everyone else off, when you've never dealt with the problem yourself. In thinking about this I relate it to the problem of the long term unemployed(both are very difficult situations)...........unless you've been there how can you know what its like..........believe me you CAN'T..........I know........ I've been on both sides. In the end I guess everyone can surely have an opinion but if you're gonna make ignorant statements (the reasoning behind the rant)..........be prepared for the fallout.

I've never had to deal with a loved one with a disability so i believe I cannot know the challanges. However, I do know for me, seeing that child smile on a ride at WDW more than makes up for any short delay I might have in getting that same thrill.............2 thrills for the price of 1!!! Good deal if you ask me.

Again I say bravo Pete...........And to all those who have been given the responsibility of caring for those little ones......and big ones with autism, ADHD, or any other type disability..........Bravo to you too..........

Doug

 

[Disneychick75]

Thank-you Pete for the rant. What you said brought me to tears. My jaw dropped the first time I read some of the ugly comments on the boards about those of us who travel with a disabled person. I had to reread the posts because I could not believe that people were so uncaring.

My good friend's son is autistic. I wish some of the hateful people could have seen this child's transformation on his very first Disney trip 7 years ago. He was still not verbalizing much. After riding POC for the first time, he sought out a CM and said, " Good ride." His mom said it a billion times better than winning the Powerball. They've been back with us several times since and the joy on this child's face each time is truly priceless. To think that some jerks feel that because he needs accommodations he should not go to the parks makes me wish that I could jump into my computer and shake them. It infuriates me that they actually sound jealous and begrudge these children and adults their happiness.

 

[DisGirlAllie]

I almost started applauding when I heard it! But as I was walking in a very public place at the time, I refrained

 

[Ghosthost999]

What I enjoy most about Pete and his podcast is that he isn't afraid to express his opinion. Many times we keep our opinions to ourselves out of fear of retaliation or disagreements. But what Pete said was thoughtful and it will stay with me during my next Disney trip.

 

[RevKjb]

Outstanding!!!! Nothing you said Pete was incorrect or too harsh! Bravo!

Doug

I agree 100%. As a Dad of a child who is Developmentally delayed AND loves Disney, I hope he never feels that he's not welcome or wanted at his favourite place on earth.

Thanks Pete.

KJB.

 

[WebmasterMike]

Never said that. I do believe that ADHD is marginal and exaggerated however and people getting DAS/GAC for that is abuse.

Then you do not know what you are talking about. Why on earth would you trivialize a condition like that? Try growing up with a severe ADHD condition and having a child with the same. We do not need a DAS, but we know several folks that do that meet that description. You can not use a black and white judgement on any range of condition. Each has its own challenges.

 

[Sfmarine]

I just thought I'd let Pete and everyone know that his rant about autistic and disabled guests made news in Oklahoma! pretty cool.

http://newsok.com/article/4063584

 

[Svhadden]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'll stand by and wait with my blessedly healthy kids and watch 50 disabled/ill children pass us on their way into a ride, attraction, whatever. No way I'm going to complain about Disney's attempts to make the magic accessible to as many as possible. No system is perfect, abuse is always going to be an issue, but that's not my problem to fix…it's Disney's, and I believe they'll do their best with the situation.

I'm a mental health provider, specializing in community-based therapy for kids with all sorts of diagnoses, many with pervasive developmental disorders. I know of no one, *NO ONE*, who wouldn't trade their kid's diagnosis in a second. No one is happy about needing the GAC/DAS, but I know many who are just glad it's there.

Regardless of the flaws, I'm glad it's there, too.

 

[awr66]

Just my observation as a parent to two sons on the autism spectrum.

Our boys are now adults, and can handle waiting in line with no problem. This was not the case in 2005. At that time our youngest son could only handle being in the parks for a few hours at a time and the GAC was the difference between a wonderful vacation that we fondly remember to this day or a time in "autism hell" that I am sure it would have been without the card.

Thankfully, since that time my son has progressed by leaps and bounds with his cognitive ability and behavior so waiting in line no longer causes the epic meltdowns of the past, therefore we no longer require any assistance such as the current DAS card affords.

Now, on to any of you that would make asinine comments about and verbally attack people with disabilities: If I ever heard you say that in my presence, any veneer of a gentile professional man that I possess would probably melt away and I would be jailed for slapping you so hard your momma would feel it. What kind of a jerk would say such things?

You want to start banning people from the parks? I guarantee you 99% of people would rather see ******s that would pick on people with disabilities banned from the parks rather than these people and families who have to deal with physical and cognitive disabilities on a daily basis banned.

 

[SA mom]

Thank you, Pete.

And to awr66, my daughter (was moderate, now high functioning) will now say, "My autism is really showing today."

 

[Greysword]

First I'd like to provide my unsolicited opinion that I agree almost 100% with Pete's statement on the podcast. Personally, I think it is terrible that people would say something with the purpose to hurt others in any situation at a Disney resort.

The one point, on which I disagree, was already brought up by Lurch.

...That said, I can certainly understand the frustration. Also, I think Pete is way out of line saying that unless you have a disability you have no say. When someone's demands for accommodations adversely impacts other guests then they do indeed have a right to voice their opinion.

There is real societal danger in letting only one side of an argument be heard, which Pete's comment basically advocates, and the current lawsuit will provide a voice for those on both sides of the argument. Please let me qualify by saying, it is NOT alright for someone to voice their concern or negativity on the spot (at the scene) regarding the use of these passes. We, the line-waiting public, do not have the full story, so we should not take immediate action on the perceived issue.

However, there is a place and time to voice concerns about perceived abuses of these privileges. Writing Disney an email or pulling a manager aside later to voice concerns in private (or as private as possible) are appropriate responses. It is likely Disney has thousands of these dissenting comments, which is why they decided to amend their policies.

I completely agree with Svhadden on this point,

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'll stand by and wait with my blessedly healthy kids and watch 50 disabled/ill children pass us on their way into a ride, attraction, whatever. No way I'm going to complain about Disney's attempts to make the magic accessible to as many as possible. No system is perfect, abuse is always going to be an issue, but that's not my problem to fix…it's Disney's, and I believe they'll do their best with the situation.

...

Regardless of the flaws, I'm glad it's there, too.

No system is perfect, and I definitely get frustrated when eight or more family/friends cue-up with one person with a pass. However, I don't really say anything unless it seems to be extremely excessive abuse, then I might report it to WDW management. Then again, I get frustrated when the line stops because someone with purchased a VIP guide and get on rides ahead of everyone. Of course, there are those Brazillian tour groups in the green shirts... we should ban those, for sure!

All in, I trust Disney management to make the right decision. If they implement a policy, I trust they did so with the best interest of all guests in mind, as to do otherwise would cause them harm. This policy may not be the answer, but they are trying and once feedback on the policy is collected, they will likely make a change for the better. However, I think everyone should have an opinion and should voice that opinion to Disney management with specific details on what the concern was. They will then sift through the input and act on the relevant issues.

ETA: Thank you, Pete, for these great boards; providing the ability to both voice my opinion in healthy discussion and the ability to read other people's opinion, as it allows me to become more educated!

 

[Love Tink]

Then you do not know what you are talking about. Why on earth would you trivialize a condition like that? Try growing up with a severe ADHD condition and having a child with the same. We do not need a DAS, but we several folks that do that meet that description. You can not use a black and white judgement on any range of condition. Each has its own challenges.

Right on. ADHD for some reason is a disability that people have no problem openly mocking and treating like it is "made up" or "no big deal." People say things about ADHD that they would never say about other neurological issues, (because they would be ashamed to be heard talking about other conditions that way).

As a woman with two children with ADHD (and a husband with ADHD), I know it isn't some frivolous, funny, ridiculous, made-up issue. If you think it is, you should educate yourself - instead of being blithely unconcerned with your ignorance.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I completely agree with Svhadden on this point, No system is perfect, and I definitely get frustrated when eight or more family/friends cue-up with one person with a pass.

to this I have an honest question - If:

1. DD has a stroller as a wheelchair card (given she can't walk or stand on her own)
2. My entire family is at WDW (9 people total)
3. We all want to (and physically can) ride the same ride

why shouldn't we be allowed to wait together?

With the stroller as wheelchair, we wouldn't have a DAS card (DD doesn't need it), we just need to go through a wheelchair accessible entrance. Many lines at WDW are mainstreamed (and therefore wheelchair accessible), but for the ones that aren't - why should our party have to split up? If we were able to wait in the regular line, we wouldn't have to split up, so why should we have to split up because of DD's developmental delays (the cause of her not walking)?

We go to Disney to spend time together as a family, to experience attractions together as a family. If it were just about DH and I experiencing a ride/attraction with DD we'd go by ourselves. But we get a lot of joy out of being with our nephews as well (as they do interacting with their younger cousin also).

Please note again - I am not talking about getting ahead in line, or a reduced wait time or anything of the sort. We will not get a DAS for DD because she has no issues waiting in line. The problem is strictly her lack of mobility, and the fact that neither DH nor I can hold her for long stretches of time. She's simply too big at this point.

So if we are waiting the same amount of time as someone who got in the standby line at the same time as we went to a wheelchair accessible entrance, and we board at the same time (or close) - then what in the world is the problem if it's just DH and I with DD, or if it's our family as a whole?

 

[Greysword]

to this I have an honest question - If:

1. DD has a stroller as a wheelchair card (given she can't walk or stand on her own)
2. My entire family is at WDW (9 people total)
3. We all want to (and physically can) ride the same ride

why shouldn't we be allowed to wait together?

Excellent question and great qualifiers.

The short answer is you should all go through together.

That is Disney's policy, and I accept it. However, I may still feel concern. If it is one or three families, that is fine and I am happy to see your family enjoy time together. If the wait is 30 minutes or less, great. If it is a two hour wait (Radiator Springs Racers) and dozens of larger families use the option, then it gets a bit demoralizing watching groups filter in and out while my family is patiently waiting.

In the end, I just silently get frustrated with it and don't say anything, though.


I have a counter question for yourself and others on here, as I am curious. Actually, it is a scenario:

Many DISers are repeat visitors to the Disney parks (either coast). Many DISer families with a member qualifying for the access card, like the elderly lady on in the podcast story, may have visited or get to visit Disney World or Disneyland multiple times in their lives.

During the busy season, should these frequent visitors get access to the attractions sooner than the non-qualifying family that saved up for several years (three, five, ten+) for this truly once in a lifetime trip?

Who has precedence in this scenario, the family that will be back next year to see the attractions they miss or the family who will likely not return for decades as a family?

If the special needs family are local to the parks and visit very frequently, should they get access before the family who flew in once per year/every other year to a specific attraction, knowing they will be back again very soon?

Again, I am curious as each story is different and one qualifier may outweigh another if all the stories are laid bare for each of us to interpret. I'm not trying to be cantankerous (that's the aspergers talkin' if it does ); rather, I'm trying to point out that blanket policies are difficult as it may not be the best option in a situation once the specifics are known.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Excellent question and great qualifiers.

The short answer is you should all go through together.

That is Disney's policy, and I accept it. However, I don't have to like it. If it is one or three families, that is fine and I am happy to see your family enjoy time together. If the wait is 30 minutes or less, great. If it is a two hour wait and dozens of larger families use the option, then it gets a bit demoralizing watching filter in and out while my family is waiting.

In the end, I just silently get frustrated with it and don't say anything, though.

To the bolded - the guest in SB (in this case, you) would have no idea how long we waited. As i said in my post, I'm not talking about any reduction in wait time. I'm talking about waiting the same exact time as someone who gets into the SB line at the same time, just that we would have to use a different entrance if the SB line is not wheelchair accessible.

I think it's pretty clear with this new DAS program that using a wheelchair accessible entrance does not mean any reduction in wait time - especially considering issues that are solely related to mobility (as DD's are) don't even qualify to have a DAS card. It's just that we would, in some cases, have to use a different entrance.

So given that, why should anyone be "demoralized" at seeing my family? I anticipate we'll be waiting just as long as anyone in standby is, just in a way that is accessible for my daughter. As I said before, I would give *anything* to not have to even think about this type of accommodation for my daughter, but that's not an option I have.

Who has precedence in this scenario, the family that will be back next year to see the attractions they miss or the family who will likely not return for decades as a family?

Neither is more important than the other. Both have paid the same admission to get into the parks, and both deserve to have the same access to attractions, regardless of when they will come again.

If the special needs family are local to the parks and visit very frequently, should they get access before the family who flew in once per year/every other year to a specific attraction, knowing they will be back again very soon?

See my response above - neither is more important than the other.

 

[Greysword]

To the bolded - the guest in SB (in this case, you) would have no idea how long we waited. As i said in my post, I'm not talking about any reduction in wait time. I'm talking about waiting the same exact time as someone who gets into the SB line at the same time, just that we would have to use a different entrance if the SB line is not wheelchair accessible.

I think it's pretty clear with this new DAS program that using a wheelchair accessible entrance does not mean any reduction in wait time - especially considering issues that are solely related to mobility (as DD's are) don't even qualify to have a DAS card. It's just that we would, in some cases, have to use a different entrance.

I'm sorry, I guess I missed the point of the discussion at large. I thought we were talking about the lawsuit that alleges the previous policy on the card should be reinstated instead of the new policy, which is said to be harmful to families with special needs. Also, we were talking about Pete's comment about families with no special needs having an opinion. I guess I got lost?

So given that, why should anyone be "demoralized" at seeing my family? I anticipate we'll be waiting just as long as anyone in standby is, just in a way that is accessible for my daughter.

This conversation shouldn't be internalized, as I was not speaking directly about your family. I was speaking in general about the perception made by traffic flow of people using the wheelchair access entrances during busy days. I apologize and withdraw, as the conversation is unlikely to continue if it is made personal.

Neither is more important than the other. Both have paid the same admission to get into the parks, and both deserve to have the same access to attractions, regardless of when they will come again.

...

See my response above - neither is more important than the other.

That is not what the lawsuit seems to allege, and if that is the case everyone should be able to have an opinion, right?

I realize that personalizing the issues means a meaningful conversation is likely to grind to a halt, as we will be sorting out specifics instead of discussing the concerns in a larger context. I apologize for interrupting, and thank you to everyone on here for letting me post my thoughts. I now practice what I said previously, I will sit back and watch and keep the rest of my thoughts to myself so I don't cause anyone harm.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I'm sorry, I guess I missed the point of the discussion at large. I thought we were talking about the lawsuit that alleges the previous policy on the card should be reinstated instead of the new policy, which is said to be harmful to families with special needs. Also, we were talking about Pete's comment about families with no special needs having an opinion. I guess I got lost?

I guess I'm a bit lost too. You made a comment about getting frustrated seeing 8 people line up when there is only one person with a pass. I asked a question based on that comment. You answered me, asked another question, and I responded...neither the comment I originally asked you a question about, nor the one you specifically asked of me, seemed to be referencing the lawsuit...

This conversation shouldn't be internalized, as I was not speaking directly about your family. I was speaking in general about the perception made by traffic flow of people using the wheelchair access entrances during busy days. I apologize and withdraw, as the conversation is unlikely to continue if it is made personal.

I understand that you weren't making it personal, and I wasn't taking it personally - I apologize if it sounded as though I were. My main point is that someone in the SB line has no idea how long someone in the wheelchair access area has been waiting (unless the wheelchair area can be seen from everywhere in SB, which I don't believe is the case generally).

Under the new system, solely needing to use the wheelchair entrance for mobility reasons alone does not qualify you to use the DAS. So, at this point, no one in SB can just assume that someone boarding from the wheelchair entrance is cutting in front of them in line. They could very well have entered the line at the same time as the person who is now boarding from the SB line.

So the basic question i was asking you originally (based on your comment about being frustrated at seeing 8 people board with 1 pass) - is:

If a family of 9 entered a non-mainstreamed attraction line through the wheelchair entrance, and they waited the same exact amount as a family who entered that attraction's SB line at the same time, why shouldn't that family of 9 be allowed to wait/enter the attraction together? Why should it be demoralizing or frustrating to watch that family of 9 board, when they have waited the same amount of time as anyone in standby?

*Please note I have done my best to make worded in a less personal manner..I am in no way taking this conversation personally *