Passenger Indicted for Sexual Assault on Disney Wonder

[lawone]

After years of medical training and careers, my husband and I often say "Nothing good happens after midnight."

That made me laugh and brought back memories!! It was my parent's mantra when we were growing up! I didn't get it then... but I do now!

 

[itutorfortravel]

At what age can children check themselves out of the clubs? And if you don't want to allow that can you take that privelege away from them (i.e. have the CM's follow that rule) and can you still get a pager? I wouldn't want DD in there without being able to call us so I guess we'd have to do walkie talkies ourselves if DCL wouldn't give us a pager.

Also, I have not read much about the new kids club concept but have seen discussions here about it. A PP mentioned not being thrilled with this and I have to say I agree. I was so happy that our DD was on the upper end of the Oceaneer's Club age range when we cruised. She is a non-aggressive sometimes shy child and I did not want her with children much older than her. We are set to cruise next year but I was already concerned about her being at the low end of the Oceaneer's Lab. So what is the deal now? She'll be 9, how much older can the kids she's around be? She's also an only child so hanging out with a sibling isn't an option.

 

[5lilfish]

I allow my kids (oldest 3...ages 10, 11 and 12) to sign themselves in and out of the clubs. I am not neglectful, irresponsible and/or crazy. I have weighed the risks and made that choice. People can say, How can you consider any risk reasonable? Easy...my kids are at risk every day. They get on a bus. They go to school. They ride their bikes. They play sports. They walk up and down the stairs. Everthing they do is a risk. It's sort of like the line from Nemo...'Well, you can't never let anything happen to him. Then nothing would ever happen to him. Not much fun for little Harpo.' Would I feel bad if something happened. Absolutely! I would feel bad for the rest of my life. I would feel just as bad if they died in a school shooting or in a car accident. I do not feel that I am being unreasonably risky with the rules I have set for my kids on the ship...and I am not in some sort of Disney denial. We've taken the kids on 13 Disney Cruises and a total of 17 cruises. They've been able to sign in/out for quite a few of those. The only bad thing that has happened so far (on this last cruise to a girl in our group) was a sprained ankle. She tripped on the stairs. That would have happened even if mom was right there.

Someone said that a cruise is a family vacation. They vacation without kids if they want adult time. Well...that is great for them. For us a cruise is both family and adult time. We would never travel without our kids. That just shows how everyone is different and needs to make decisions for their own family.

As for walking a mid-teen back to the room (my oldest is only 12). These kids are going to be able to go away to college in a couple years. I'm not saying anything against your choice but this is what has gone into me making my choice. When my kids go away to school, they are going to be doing all sorts of things without me. I do not want that to be their very first experience being out of my sight. Sometimes it stinks to let go a bit. It's scary and there is always a risk....but they do need to learn before they are thrown into total freedom. As I said...that's just part of what went through my thought process and not meant to be a judgement against anyone. Instead we have taught them to walk with people...stay in populated areas and walk with purpose. They have been told what to do in many situations. We go over these things often.

I completely understand people who choose not to give sign in/out priviledges. I do not think they are necessarily being overprotective. I also do not think I have made a crazy/irresponsible/neglectful choice by allowing my kids to sign in/out (with our own set of rules).

Jess

 

[Tinkerkell123]

I allow my kids (oldest 3...ages 10, 11 and 12) to sign themselves in and out of the clubs. I am not neglectful, irresponsible and/or crazy. I have weighed the risks and made that choice. People can say, How can you consider any risk reasonable? Easy...my kids are at risk every day. They get on a bus. They go to school. They ride their bikes. They play sports. They walk up and down the stairs. Everthing they do is a risk. It's sort of like the line from Nemo...'Well, you can't never let anything happen to him. Then nothing would ever happen to him. Not much fun for little Harpo.' Would I feel bad if something happened. Absolutely! I would feel bad for the rest of my life. I would feel just as bad if they died in a school shooting or in a car accident. I do not feel that I am being unreasonably risky with the rules I have set for my kids on the ship...and I am not in some sort of Disney denial. We've taken the kids on 13 Disney Cruises and a total of 17 cruises. They've been able to sign in/out for quite a few of those. The only bad thing that has happened so far (on this last cruise to a girl in our group) was a sprained ankle. She tripped on the stairs. That would have happened even if mom was right there.

Someone said that a cruise is a family vacation. They vacation without kids if they want adult time. Well...that is great for them. For us a cruise is both family and adult time. We would never travel without our kids. That just shows how everyone is different and needs to make decisions for their own family.

As for walking a mid-teen back to the room (my oldest is only 12). These kids are going to be able to go away to college in a couple years. I'm not saying anything against your choice but this is what has gone into me making my choice. When my kids go away to school, they are going to be doing all sorts of things without me. I do not want that to be their very first experience being out of my sight. Sometimes it stinks to let go a bit. It's scary and there is always a risk....but they do need to learn before they are thrown into total freedom. As I said...that's just part of what went through my thought process and not meant to be a judgement against anyone. Instead we have taught them to walk with people...stay in populated areas and walk with purpose. They have been told what to do in many situations. We go over these things often.

I completely understand people who choose not to give sign in/out priviledges. I do not think they are necessarily being overprotective. I also do not think I have made a crazy/irresponsible/neglectful choice by allowing my kids to sign in/out (with our own set of rules).

Jess

I agree with you. Also not judging anyone! We allowed our DD to sign herself out as long as it was not to just roam the ship. We would also let them go back to the cabin together after dinner if they were really tired. We did also go out to the adult shows after putting them to bed. We told them not to answer the door to ANYONE and that we might even test them on that!

I have taught both of my kids from the time they are old enough that you do not go ANYWHERE for ANY reason with a stranger, no matter who they said they were. They know if something happens to run screaming at the top of their lungs to the nearest policeman, house or adult female they see (if not us)! Have also tried to impress on them that even if the person says they will do something horrible to our family if the kid tells, they MUST tell us anyway!! WE will take care of that situation and the person will be in jail before they could ever do anything to us!

Of course, they will only be in jail if they are lucky enough to have the police get to them before I do!!!

We feel that if we raise the kids in a sealed bubble from the world, when they do get out there, they will be in even more danger because they aren't prepared.

Just my 10 cents!

 

[itutorfortravel]

To the PP's, I understand your point if you have multiple children who are sticking together - that allowing them to check in / out of the kids club on their own and be in a mixed age kids club might be fine for your family. So certainly no criticism of what you do. Some things that work for some do not work for others.

In my situation, I have an only child. I do not feel okay with her roaming the ship on her own. There is safety in numbers and unfortunately we do not have that situation. She has been told of the dangers out there and definitely knows never to approach or talk to a stranger, etc. but I do not feel that would be enough to protect her from someone determined to do her harm. Also my DD is somewhat shy and unassertive. She would also not be one to stand up for herself if someone was bullying her in the kids club. She is just not aggressive in that sense. And with so many kids and so few counselors I don't think that can be watched as closely as it needs to be. (DD herself has said she has seen kids being mean to other kids in the club and the counselors not doing much about it). So even telling counselors about children not acting appropriately isn't always going to resolve the situation. At her age on prior cruises, she can just page us if she wants us to come get her. I'd want her to still have that option if she wanted to leave but was beyond the formal check in / check out age. I would not want her to be "stuck" there or check herself out and walk the ship alone at any time of the day.

So I am still wondering - what are the details of the mixed age kids clubs? What age are kids permitted to check themselves out? And can I veto this and get a pager?

 

[karibritt01]

I agree. That is crazy that Disney would just allow anyone in their clubs to roam around and to possibly follow a child into a restroom to molest.

Are people allowed into the clubs? Yes. But there are MANY counselors around in the clubs all the time. We always saw 1 or 2 at the check-in desk. They recognized us after about our 3rd time in the club, and knew which kids were ours (although we still had to give our password every time.) We always saw a CM stationed near the bathroom to direct traffic and monitor the area, even though they do not go in. Adults are not allowed into the restrooms in the clubs. The bathroom itself is a very large open room. There are stalls, but not a closing door to the bathroom. I don't see how anyone would have the opportunity to do anything in there that would need to be worried about. There were plenty of CM's involved in the activity that the kids were engaged in, and others floating around to watch the kids not with the group. Never once did I feel that my kids were not safe when in the clubs.

At what age can children check themselves out of the clubs? And if you don't want to allow that can you take that privelege away from them (i.e. have the CM's follow that rule) and can you still get a pager? I wouldn't want DD in there without being able to call us so I guess we'd have to do walkie talkies ourselves if DCL wouldn't give us a pager.

Also, I have not read much about the new kids club concept but have seen discussions here about it. A PP mentioned not being thrilled with this and I have to say I agree. I was so happy that our DD was on the upper end of the Oceaneer's Club age range when we cruised. She is a non-aggressive sometimes shy child and I did not want her with children much older than her. We are set to cruise next year but I was already concerned about her being at the low end of the Oceaneer's Lab. So what is the deal now? She'll be 9, how much older can the kids she's around be? She's also an only child so hanging out with a sibling isn't an option.

DS was 10 when we cruised. We did not give him check-out privledges, and had no issues from the CMs in denying that privledge. He knew he could have us paged at any time to come and get him, and was comfortable doing that. I was not comfortable allowing him to come and go as he pleased!

As for the new age groups (or non-groups) on the ships, I think it may work out better than most people think. I imagine that most kids will gravitate towards the ages and activities that interest them, and not be around those groups that they are uncomfortable with. Before you had your DD in a club where she didn't always feel comfortable because the kids tended to be bullies. With her temperment, she may have been happier stepping back a little in her age group. Now she will have that opportunity. And the kids that were too mature for the clubs and bored, they will have the option of moving up a bit, and not causing the problems.

My DS is not very mature for his age, and often went to the Club with his sister for certain activities. We were fortunate that the CMs let my kids hop between both the Club and the Lab all week, as they chose to stick together. We liked that they could stay together, enjoy the activities they liked where ever they were offered, and pick the groups that made them comfortable.

One thing for certain... if it isn't working out, people will complain, and things will change.

 

[sbell111]

I think that it's important to note that the alleged assault being discussed in this thread happened four years ago. The very fact that we are discussing such an old issue shows that crime of this nature aboard one of DCL's ships is very rare indeed. It should also be noted that Disney doesn't publicize it's security procedures and they have no doubt been updated in teh last four years.

...Some of the concearns that I brought up were that ANYONE can enter the clubs. ie...I can walk up to the desk at the OC and say..."I am here to pick up my daughter." The CM opens the gate and I can just walk in. No id check, NOTHING. I do not think that people who do not have children in the club at that given moment should be allowed to enter that area at all. I know before people said that they don't have kids and like to tour the club. WHY???? If they really want to see the place then they should be escorted with a CM.

I'm not very concerned about this issue because the teens in the club will still be protected. An adult wandering in the club doesn't present a teen with any greater danger than would already be presented by the other teens in the club. Assuming that DCL has already taken steps to minimize the potential dangers associated with the other teens, the additional danger associated with the random parent is already handled.

There have been many times when I have been looking for our DD's and I am searching all over for them. One time I had a CM say "check the bathrooms". I was SHOCKED that I could just walk into the bathroom and be alone with whatever children were in there at the time. It is just not ok.

The same could be said of every single public restroom on the planet. The danger associated with DCL restrooms is identical to that of every restroom in movie theaters, theme parks, libraries, malls, etc. (It could certainly be argued that the danger is less since the pool of potential attackers is smaller. I actually just wrote out a couple paragraphs trying to describe how the risk is reduced but then I realized that most people still won't be able to follow the math, so I deleted it all.)

 

[itutorfortravel]

Hey kabritt! Didn't mean to say DD was bullied, she wasn't and she enjoyed the activities on our cruises. However, she saw bullying on the cruise with other children and told us about it but thankfully it didn't involve her directly. And if she didn't like what was going on we knew she was at an age where she could page us...my concern really is about the clubs going forward. Because she is not aggressive, I do think about older kids and how they can be mean to the younger ones...and what if that happened to DD.. Would she be able to page us? On the other hand, I don't want to allow her checkout priveleges at her age either. So I was feeling a little concerned about her having a way to communicate with us if she needed to (even tho she'll be older and I wasn't sure if they'd issue a pager) and also feeling like she is too young to have total freedom of checking herself in and out. This next cruise will be a totally different experience for us as we will officially graduate to the Oceaneer's Lab.

I know I have sort of gotten OT on the kids club thing, but I'm still talking about the safety of my child. Above all, I want her dad and I to be able to make decisions that we feel is in her best interest (re check in / check out priveleges) and I want her to know that if she should need us or want us there is a way for her to contact us to come get her.

 

[jewelmicky]

My DD school has gotten much more strict....especially with dads. "moms" are much less threatening I guess....in general.

I think I would be more worried on the shorter cruises....I would think the "perps" would think it easy to make a "fast gettaway".....lol

I would be more concerned with the tweens then older and younger sets...just from my own memories of being that age.

We will be on the 14 day Trans in 2011....I think with that many sea days and an anticipated less then full ship.....you would be able to recognize most fellow passengers and crew by sight if not name. There really will be no where to go and hide in the middle of the Atlantic. My DD will be 8 and just starting to spread her wings....we keep a very good eye on her, even at home.

 

[karibritt01]

Didn't mean to say DD was bullied, she wasn't and she enjoyed the activities on our cruises. However, she saw bullying on the cruise with other children and told us about it but thankfully it didn't involve her directly.

No, I didn't take it that way. I just meant that she had noticed behaviors that she wasn't comfortable with, and it colored the way she veiwed the clubs. I still think that more kids will tend to gravitate to the age and personality types that they are comfortable with, making the club experience more positive for all of them.

 

[Tinkerkell123]

Hey kabritt! Didn't mean to say DD was bullied, she wasn't and she enjoyed the activities on our cruises. However, she saw bullying on the cruise with other children and told us about it but thankfully it didn't involve her directly. And if she didn't like what was going on we knew she was at an age where she could page us...my concern really is about the clubs going forward. Because she is not aggressive, I do think about older kids and how they can be mean to the younger ones...and what if that happened to DD.. Would she be able to page us? On the other hand, I don't want to allow her checkout priveleges at her age either. So I was feeling a little concerned about her having a way to communicate with us if she needed to (even tho she'll be older and I wasn't sure if they'd issue a pager) and also feeling like she is too young to have total freedom of checking herself in and out. This next cruise will be a totally different experience for us as we will officially graduate to the Oceaneer's Lab.

I know I have sort of gotten OT on the kids club thing, but I'm still talking about the safety of my child. Above all, I want her dad and I to be able to make decisions that we feel is in her best interest (re check in / check out priveleges) and I want her to know that if she should need us or want us there is a way for her to contact us to come get her.

Something to think of since you have an only child... Have you joined a DISmeet group for your cruise? If not, check it out. We joined a few months prior to our 1st cruise and my DD was e-mailing back & forth (via parent's e-mail addresses so I could keep an eye out) with 7 or 8 other girls her age. Might be a good way to find a potential buddy to hang out with, or at least meet and see if they have anything in common...

And you'll get to meet the parents! I was not at ALL sure I was going to even let the DD have sign-out privileges, but once we had met some other girls her age, some of whom had been on previous cruises, we let her with rules... Had to know where she was at all times.

I hope you have a great time on your cruise!!

 

[snusnu]

I fully intend on teaching my daughter, who is 14 months old right now, that if anyone EVER tries to get her alone, she has the right to push THEM overboard. That poor little girl. Thank God she told someone. It saddens me but doesn't surprise me that there is no safe place in this world.