Park hours? What's going on?

[heidihiden]

I was watching my local news cast last night and on came a story about Disneyworld. The report stated that it looks as though Disney will be cutting park hours and even closing sections of the park at certain times. Of course all parades will be effected. We are scheduled to go down for the week of halloween but I am now one step away from cancelling. I was ready to support Disney by keeping my reservations. But I refuse to spend a few thousand dollars on this trip to go and have short park hours and many things closed down. After all, I don't see any cuts in the cost of the passes. Disney needs to be creative. After all, it has been one of the most profitable companies in the world over the past ten years. I would love to keep our reservations. My kids are looking foward to the trip. I will not pay top dollar and get half of what I am paying for. If Disney cuts the hours then cut the prices of the passes. Has anyone heard of park hours being cut or parts of the park closing?

 

[Captain Crook]

You expect Disney to uphold all of their standards & commitments as the economy and the Compay falls apart? Maybe you SHOULD cancel your trip and bemoan the loss of the Disney sensitivity and you'll have the pleasure of knowing that you'll be at least a small part of the reason Disney eventually fails or is taken over by an unscrupulous raider...And then you'll never have to worry about paying Disney for such inferiority ever again!

You say you want to "support" Disney but it sounds like you just prefer that Disney ignore recent events and give us 'business as usual'... It is ridiculous to expect Disney to maintain hours, schedules and commitments made prior to Sept. 11, although they have in fact been very reasonable in waiving their cancellation policy and fees, & working on rescheduling...But don't confuse the situation with the facts or reality, right? It can't always be viewed on a personal pocketbook level now. Our world has changed, including WDW.

Oh yeah, they'll probably inconvenience you by checking your bags at the gate, too!

 

[JeffJewell]

It is ridiculous to expect Disney to maintain hours, schedules and commitments made prior to Sept. 11

Some businesses, in light of what has happened, have actually lowered their prices to encourage business; offering the same service for less money. The resorts seem to be doing some of that.

The parks, on the other hand, are addressing hard times by offering less service for the same money. This does not strike me as being a brilliant plan for boosting flagging attendance.

It can't always be viewed on a personal pocketbook level now. Our world has changed, including WDW.

No one was landing planes on the 75th floor in June, when Disney cut their officially posted hours for AK, DS, and MK, cancelled multiple showings per week of SpectroMagic and Fantasmic!, and cancelled meals for which they had already issued and confirmed PS numbers. Budget cuts that directly affect guest experience have been SOP for Disney since before 9-11.

The business I'm in got hit hard this month, too. I get to fire a dear friend this afternoon because our company is facing bad times by making the sacrifices to put out the same product as we always have for less money. But the important thing to our company is getting the business back.

Telling our customers that our product costs the same, but will now be delivered without paint and mounting hardware, well, that's a ticket to bankruptcy.

Disney has made their choice as to how to handle this terrible situation. There will be consequences of that choice.

Jeff

 

[cindyfan]

Captain Crook.........GO EASY on heidihiden!!!
she has a couple good points.
she is not being unreasonable to expect to get what she is paying for. Just because of all the events, does not mean we should expect to get a half gallon of milk when we pay for a whole. get the point.

and heidihide.......don't go into a panic until you call for yourself and get the info for yourself. the news will always exagerate!!
I called over the weekend and as of then, they had not changed any of the park hours for Oct. The parades and all the "new" things for 100years celebration are still set.
Halloween is always a very popular time at WDW and I am sure they are still hoping it will be at least close to normal crowds.

Call and talk to the WDW info......it may ease your mind a little.

I realize that life as we knew it before Sept 11 is no longer, and that the world has changed. But we all need to be a little more understanding of each other feelings.

 

[Captain Crook]

The Parks, on the other hand, are addressing hard times by offering less service for the same money.

Oh, so they should stay open until midnite perhaps to accomodate the two or three hundred guests that may be there? Good business philosophy...

Disney is still making their way in a very foggy environment, if you choose to take a hard line attitude based on speculation of what the hours will be (or perhaps based on what happened to you in the past) and have virtually no willingness to allow for logical considerations, then I certainly can't convince you...As for what they did now vs. what they did then...Well, the rules have changed, the world, business focus & environment is different. Some of us will look to Eisner to bring Disney back (again) some of you will root for a Newscorp buyout...

 

[cindyfan]

just ignore those two and take my advise.......call WDW about the hours etc.....it may ease your mind a little.

and everyone else.....just CHILL!

 

[JeffJewell]

Oh, so they should stay open until midnite perhaps to accomodate the two or three hundred guests that may be there?

They should do what is necessary to entice customers back. The same as every other business should do.

In this time of crisis, it is up to the businesses to convince the customers that spending money is still a good idea. As I mentioned before, many businesses are making sacrifices to produce the same goods for less money, and then selling them for less just because it's the only way to get customers back.

The goal is to get customers back. Customers who are already skittish of flying and of being in crowded places that might make good targets for terrorism. Disney would have to give people a good reason to keep or make reservations in that environment, if they want customers back.

It does not appear their current tack represents a good reason to keep or make those reservations.

Jeff

 

[YoHo]

While my Heart agrees with JeffJewel, I can see the other side of the Coin. Disney is shutting down entire sections of resorts to reduce overhead. that also reduces staffing needs at the resorts. they can afford a price cut and still maintain profitability.
Parks on the otherhand NEED to maintain a certain minimum Staffing level in order to make the parks function correctly. By closing early, they've reduced their staffing needs. Given the extremely low numbers of people in the park, you shouldn't miss much of anything anyway. So in terms of rides ridden and things seen, you might actually be getting a better value despite the shorter hours.
I guess thats the log jam here. you can't think of park hours in terms of black and white. with nobody in the parks, there are no lines. Imagine riding everything in the magic kingdom in a single morning. It may now be possible.

So in that sense, you are actually getting a better value for the same money.
Before the tragedy, Park attendence was off, but not by so much that an hours reduction was unnoticable. This situation is fundimentaly different.
JeffJewel, think of the example this way. They're offering the same product with the paint and the hardware for the same price, but they're only building 100 instead of 100,000. (the analogy breaks down when you think about factory/assembly line costs, but I think you get the point.)

 

[pjd02176]

Amen.

Think of it this way. If you decide to go and the crowds aren't there, you can do a lot more in a shorter amount of time. Ride your favorite rides 3x in a row.... be able to sleep in and not have to be a theme park commando to see everything.... stop and rest with an ice cream... browse the shops without being jostled....

If you don't see a show or parade this time, it will just give you a good reason to return another time!

 

[JeffJewell]

I think you get the point

I do. My next trip is still on.

I just don't think it should be so surprising that, when faced with the choice of paying full price for cut back park hours or saving that money to use when you can get more for that money, people might decide on waiting and getting more. It's a pretty logical conclusion. It's certainly not a "ridiculous" conclusion for someone to have reached. That's why I posted.

Jeff

PS-I disagree that shorter hours are a better value, but I don't think it's worth debating. I think that's a subjective determination dependent on individual vacation plans.

 

[tiggerstheman1]

Just don't open the parks at all, just lock the gates, send everyone home permanently, put a sign up on the interstate, close down all the offices, turn off the power, the phones, the sewer, the water, board up the studios in Burbank and don't make anymore films, can the Fox Family deal because it costs money to produce content for tv, and stop doing anything else that may mean writing a check.

Then you have all that money to enjoy and life is great.

Cynical?

Yeah, accountants run my company right now too and have stopped all projects that will put us in a position to dominate the market when it returns. "Nope, can't do that" they say because then when they count our beans we have less beans than we used to have. So, don't spend anymore beans because if you spend them they won't have them to count. So, when the market returns and we are scrambling to meet demand, where will the bean counters be? They'll be making statements to the effect: "we didn't anticipate such a dramatic return of the market and were caught a little off guard but are expediting our capital expansion plans to catch up with demand". Then, just as the cycle swings around again, all those capital expansion plans that should have been done before the previous swing will be in progress and they will put the brakes on again.

If you look at history and say that things are cyclical, then you need to put yourself in the position of being in the lead when the up-cycle returns. That means that while business is slow you fix the problems that hampered you in the last up-cycle. When the up-cycle hits, you are in a better strategic position. Instead, I hear too many business analysts saying that this is just a slowdown, but their actions are the opposite - they act as if the world is crumbling and may never recover. I ask you, when in the history of the world have things not changed in some way? Never. If you say that business needs to make sure it can stay afloat until the uptick happens, then I would agree. Staying afloat is one thing, cutting up your raft to save the wood is something else.

I'm sorry folks, I have little patience today for short-sightedness in business management. Controlling costs when demand isn't there is one thing. Castrating your company so it can't attract new business and be on the top of the wave when it returns is just ridiculous. I'm not saying that Disney is castrating itself now, we'll have to wait and see if management is looking 5 years down the road or 5 months. 5 months from now could be rougher than today, 5 years from now and we'll be in the middle of another boom in the economy.

Your friendly Tigger,
TTM1

 

[YoHo]

JeffJewell, I agree from a PR standpoint. Many people won't take the cognative leap and realize that reducing park hours won't reduce what they can do on there vacations. OR, they have no desire to alter their vacation plans to accomidate new schedules.


tiggerstheman1,
At first I wasn't sure what "side" you were coming down on. Then I decided to tkae what you said and run with it.
Lets assume for a minutes that reducing Park hours actually does what its intended to do, namely reduce costs and stablize profits. IF(that's a big if ) Disney announces infrastructure improvment plans such as BK and so forth and so on. It could, combined allow them to cruuise through this reasonably. And in fact those restricted hours will be shortlived. The key is what are they going to do to move forward. Ugh, I had a great analogy for this, but it isn't appropriate in the wake of Sept 11. suffice it to say. you need to apply the turnicate first, then fix the wound.

 

[Another Voice]

“You expect Disney to uphold all of their standards & commitments as the economy and the Company falls apart?”

That’s an extremely interesting statement/question. It’s often said that the true character of a man is best seen during a crisis. I suppose we’re all about to see if that holds true for companies as well. There are many who believe that the current management is strong and forceful – this crisis will be the opportunity to prove it. There are others who believe that Disney’s current management was lacking in skills before the recent events. The coming days will prove or disprove that theory as well. Walt managed to steer the company through both a depression and a world war. I would suggest that the times ahead will be very difficult, but no more than those crisis times in the past.

But one thing is certain – Disney is not a charity and it should not be treated like one. Of all the sacrifices that we may be asked to make in the coming months, spending more money for fewer services (park hours, attractions, amenities) so that already fat wallets can remain plump, well that’s just not very high on my priority list right now.

Disney is a business and it must EARN its keep. I will support Disney when and where it makes sense, but I will not reward the lazy or the foolish when far too many other vital concerns require my time, money and commitment. I DEMAND that Disney uphold its standards and commitments because that is what ALL of us need to do right now. If the company can’t, then frankly the company deserves to fall apart. Perhaps the time of growing rich from the sale of trinkets and timeshares is over. The Company will either adapt or not based on the skills of its management, but the pain of their transition should not be forced onto their customers.

There are important things that need to be done – maintaining bloated profit margins is not one of them.

 

[heidihiden]

I would like to thank everyone for their replies. It helps out a lot. At this point and time we still plan on going to Disney. The kids can't wait to go. Some of you have brought up great points. But what is the story with this Captain Crook guy? Is it wrong to want to get what you pay for. I understand what Disney is going through. But they are a vacation destination and known for "magical vacations". If anyone were to go there and many things were closed, then what would be the sense of going? I would just go to and island and sit on the beach spending much less money... I can deal with some of the hours being reduced. But is it fair for areas of the park to be shut down? If Disney were to meet travelers half way buy maybe reducing ticket prices for the need to close down a park, then I know that going down and I can plan accordingly. Also remember this, many people purchase park hopper passes before they go. What do you say to those people? Captain Crook, your response was way off. I can appreciate your patriotism as for what has happened to this great country. But you have some how blended these two issues together. I hope more than anything that the week we go it is crowded. Being around people who are having a good time helps all of us through try to put some of this behind. So I hope to see many of you there on halloween.. God Bless America!!!

 

[tiggerstheman1]

Yoho:

I guess the "side" I fall on is that while balancing your expenses with your demand is appropriate, I'm hoping that they aren't applying a turnicate for a nosebleed. That's where the 5 month .vs. 5 years vision comes into play. Yeah, all that stuff in the beginning was intended to make the point that you can go too far.

I'm still not sure which type of vision Disney has at the moment. Eisner alluded to the 5 year version, but time will tell. When you see them cancelling projects, postponing new development, scaling back plans rather than developing the next generation of attractions, renewing focus on development, and greenlighting exciting projects, then we will have our answer. BTW, I'm not considering Mission:Space to be a part of my examination of the month .vs. years vision because it was started way before the downturn and they just can't have a 1/2 built building looming over Future World.

I do agree that to ask the public to pay the same price for fewer hours and fewer open attractions is wrong. I noticed this in June when I was at WDW and it did get under my skin. I guess you could say that the money you save on hotel rooms helps to balance it out, but that would be just digging too hard for something good to say about it all.


TTM1

 

[YoHo]

Heidihiden, The good Cap'n is a good guy. He's just very passionate and his been arguing with people about park hours for a while now. Its all good.

 

[TiggerFreak]

How about trying on this pair of rose colored glasses, I find they fit very nicely.

In 5 trips to the World, each 6 days and 5 nights, I have not as of yet been able to see or do everything there is available.
Our annual has been planned for 11 months (yep DVC) and the thought of not going has not crossed my mind.
If they reduce hours, I'm sure I'll still find something magical this trip that I haven't experienced in a previous trip. That is one of the great aspects of WDW.
Maybe after 20 trips I won't have this attitude, but a little pixie in my ear is telling me I still will.

Take a deep breath, let it out, relax, there now, doesn't that feel better

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
I gotta quit this job of mine!! It takes away from my time posting!! I had most of this ready to go hours ago, but got called away for bit (another hurry up and wait, emergency meeting!!). In the mean time, as usual, Another Voice, said what I wanted to say, only much, much better. I came real close to deleting this, but I figured that since I had it ready to go, well, what the heck!! Skip it if you like!!

Ah! That's the old Captain we all know and love!!

Yep!! The old Captain of more than a year ago. Saying ridiculous things to stir a little controversy and defending the corporate line to the hilt!! How dare anyone request value for the money spent! A half-a-Disney is better than no Disney at all, isn't it!?! Poor, poor Disney! Never mind the 'greedy' guest, expecting that they should maintain their standards!! We have to defend Disney, right or… well, they're always right!!

Anyway….

You expect Disney to uphold all of their standards & commitments

Absolutely!! That's why I'm coughing up over five grand to go there!!!

You say you want to "support" Disney but it sounds like you just prefer that Disney ignore recent events and give us 'business as usual'

Why not?! I'm giving them "cash as usual". The full amount. I expect the full level of service and quality. But it seems they are offering a vastly inferior product. Come on Captain. You always remind us all that Disney is a business. And as a business they provide a product. If the quality of the product goes down but the cost does not reflect this, what is a paying customer supposed to do? Go there blindly and spend the same amount of money for much less?

But don't confuse the situation with the facts or reality, right? It can't always be viewed on a personal pocketbook level now.

How about a corporate pocketbook? I don't get it. The guest is supposed to make sacrifices but the corporation is not? That doesn't make sense to me at all.

Our world has changed, including WDW.

I'll grant you the world has changed. But I don't agree that it includes WDW. For them it's business as usual. Maximize profits. No matter how that lowers the standards or affects the guest's experience. I fully agree with JJ's opinion that they should be going out of their way to enhance the experience and entice us to visit. Again, they just don't get it!!

Oh, so they should stay open until midnight perhaps to accommodate the two or three hundred guests that may be there? Good business philosophy...

Damn straight it's 'Good business philosophy'! Oh-oh!! Story time!!!!!

Back about thirty years ago, before there was a comedy club on every corner of every major city I ran one. We made a deal with a local bar to split the door and take a small percentage of the gross (drink and food). I provided the comedians. These were young, fairly funny folks, who were hungry for an audience. The night we opened we had four people in a venue that would hold a little over 100. The comics were a little disheartened. But as they say in the business, "The show must go on"!! And on it went! Full blown. Pulled out all the stops. I paid all the comedians (their token $15.00 per) and lost about $85.00 that night. This went on for roughly two months. But, each night (especially the weekends) the loss was a little less. Until, one night, we actually broke even!! For two years I ran the joint, enjoying BIG, BIG bucks until the over proliferation of Comedy Clubs killed the market. Point is, "The SHOW (which Disney is) must go on!" Not half a show. Not 2 out of three acts in a Broadway production! But the whole SHOW. Immersed in that Disney "Quality" we all crave. And NEVER interfering with the guest experience!!!

Disney is still making their way in a very foggy environment

We all are, Captain.

if you choose to take a hard line attitude based on speculation of what the hours will be (or perhaps based on what happened to you in the past) and have virtually no willingness to allow for logical considerations, then I certainly can't convince you...

What's so hard to understand that to some, parades, later hours (traditional), and the entire park opened at the same time is very, very important. Especially those folks who can only make it to WDW once every three or four years! Some people in Florida are a little spoiled in this aspect of vacation planning. Have you ever had to put Disney on the back burner? Not just for a week or two, but for five years or so? My sister-in-law has had to that more often than not. She therefore plans, very far in advance, for the "trip of a lifetime". If she misses the parades or late night activities, it's ten years between trips!!

YoHo:

So in that sense, you are actually getting a better value for the same money.

Absolutely not!!!! Not for everyone. For me at least, give me late hours and I'll fight the crowds. Those night time activities are very, very, very important to me. And it's very important, from a SHOW point of view, that the entire park (EVERYTHING) be opened during operating hours. The alternative is just 'bad show'!! But before you jump down the LandBaron's throat, JeffJewell wrote:

PS-I disagree that shorter hours are a better value, but I don't think it's worth debating. I think that's a subjective determination dependent on individual vacation plans.

I agree with that as well.

Back to the Captain:

Some of us will look to Eisner to bring Disney back (again) some of you will root for a Newscorp buyout...

And some of us will simple wish for Ei$ner to go away!!


PS:

Heidihiden, The good Cap'n is a good guy. He's just very passionate and his been arguing with people about park hours for a while now. Its all good.

Totally agree!! "It's all good!!"

 

[gary]

Is it wrong to want to get what you pay for.

It depends on what you think you're paying for.

When I visit a theme park, any park, not just a Disney park, I have an expectation of visiting a certain number of attractions during my stay. I've been hearing stories from Disneyland visitors about walk-ons to most attractions and 5 minute waits for the most popular... it seems to me that, under those conditions, park hours could be cut and most people could still spend a substantial amount of time at attractions and have a quite enjoyable experience.

If it is indeed the case that the "park time cut" is less than or equal to the "reduced line time", then, even with reduced hours, the visitor can experience more attractions. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, the overall experience could be greatly enhanced - enjoying the same number of attractions in the parks in less time will allow the visitor to both experience a pleasurable visit to the parks, plus spend *more* time experiencing other things around the resort, like dining, golf, boating, etc. More bang for the buck, not less.

Heidihiden, I'm sure you'll have plenty of time in the parks, see many shows, ride many rides, and shop many shops. Enjoy your trip, and make the most of it!

Gary

 

[Captain Crook]

Landbaron, you pied piper of the Chicken Little Fifedom, you are manipulating that keyboard like you've done this before! A pro among amatures!

But my oh my. Our fearless leader is telling us to spend, go on with life, keep things normal. But for Disney, life could hardly be normal. How many billions in market cap has been eliminated by osama bin dirtbag? Many companies in many industries can claim disaster, but aside from the airlines indsutry Disney, due to its entire package, was dealt a more severe blow than most. To survive (not save profits) Disney will be forced to undertake policy changes that make more sense than ever before. They will cut hours & parades & close restaraunts where necessary, but I am sure they are hoping for this to be temporary. In fact, my upcoming trip in October show the MK closing times at 6, 9 & 10! The 6 is a little scary, but hey, I can live with it. The 10 is totally unexpected.

Next, the future. I believe it has changed. I believe it has changed everything and eveyone. I believe, as Yo ho alluded to, that we can expect Disney to cut & paste short term, but announce and build for the long term (expect BK). I believe Eisner was struck by the humanity as were we all and I believe (as I always have) that he wants to go out as Walts keeper and not the guy who screwed it up. So for him (and for us as well), the future is now. But in order to do that, Disney must survive and if that means opening Adventureland an hour later, so be it (I was against it before, but no more).

Landbaron, you are right that my frequent visits give me a different perspective and to hidiheiden, I apologize for seeming out of control, but I am guilty of seeing with rose colored glasses & as Landbaron already outed me, I am guilty of stirring the pot a little too vigorously at times!