Park attendance/performance down?? Iger vs. anecdotes??

FWIW, a former coworker and his family used to stay on Disney property, but not go to any of the Disney parks. They would go to Universal Studios, and other local attractions.

Also, I wonder if they are figuring conference attendees into their occupancy rates? I'm sure they are. The organization I used to work for held several annual conferences in hotels on Disney property over the years.

95% of the DVC rooms are occupied by those that are patronizing WDW the majority of the time.

Some take days off...some
Take side trips...but remember what DVC is and was:

It was a way to "lock in" the previous generation of Disney nuts/fanatics - who traveled often to a place that few people at that time traveled repeatedly too...

Though some are disgruntled - most are still Disney nuts - whether they admit it or not.
 
95% of the DVC rooms are occupied by those that are patronizing WDW the majority of the time.

Some take days off...some
Take side trips...but remember what DVC is and was:

It was a way to "lock in" the previous generation of Disney nuts/fanatics - who traveled often to a place that few people at that time traveled repeatedly too...

Though some are disgruntled - most are still Disney nuts - whether they admit it or not.

Some DVC members take "resort only trips" and don't go to the parks at all. Maybe this is happening more frequently which could play a role in lower attendance.
 
Some DVC members take "resort only trips" and don't go to the parks at all. Maybe this is happening more frequently which could play a role in lower attendance.

I don't doubt that all...and since Comcast resurrected universal - I bet many more take side trips...

But the aggregate total - I believe - is still a ridiculously high rate of DVC patronizing Disney parks and the shopping/dining most of the time.
 
This is a shot across the bow to WDW. I believe they have finally upset enough people that they are choosing to go elsewhere. If they don't take this warning for what it is and WOW people and bring the value back to a WDW vacation they will be sunk. I hope they are on a pendulum getting ready to swing the other way, but I fear they are driving full throttle into a wall.
 
This is a shot across the bow to WDW. I believe they have finally upset enough people that they are choosing to go elsewhere. If they don't take this warning for what it is and WOW people and bring the value back to a WDW vacation they will be sunk. I hope they are on a pendulum getting ready to swing the other way, but I fear they are driving full throttle into a wall.

The only way Disney swings back in a direction to bring value to WDW is with a new CEO. Stockholders love Iger, and as long as the stock price remains where they are, they are happy.

Bob Iger is a great CEO for most media companies, but one that has the history and fan base (loyal customer base) that Disney does, he's just not a great fit. He lacks the imagination that the CEO of the Disney Companies honestly needs to have. All Iger sees is the stock price on a short term view point.

If you're looking at a long term viewpoint, look at the amount of people he has upset. Time and time again we see things cut from the parks and prices increased. Instead of bringing those people back to gain the money back, he's trying to grab more money from less people.

With Iger in charge, the long term view point of WDW isn't good. He needs to go.
 
Walt Disney World attendance has been slightly down since around March of this year. It's not been drastic by any means but down from the same time last year. Resort occupancy and I'm not referring to DVC has remained strong all through the spring/summer and now fall. Even with the discounts on average guests are still spending more then they did last year on rooms.
 
This is a shot across the bow to WDW. I believe they have finally upset enough people that they are choosing to go elsewhere. If they don't take this warning for what it is and WOW people and bring the value back to a WDW vacation they will be sunk. I hope they are on a pendulum getting ready to swing the other way, but I fear they are driving full throttle into a wall.

You know I will fly wingman for you on this one, Maverick...

...but I don't think this is reality. I think it's the stock culture that has thoroughly taken over in Burbank. They don't care if they sink the place.

I'll say this for Michael Eisner...he never wanted to retire. He lost his mind and ultimately sucked...but he was in it for the longterm.

I don't think Iger cares. It's about stock price for his options now. And none of the underlings want to "retire from Disney" either...they'll just jump ship to Apple or google or Comcast until THEY rule the world.

Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?
 
I think it's the stock culture that has thoroughly taken over in Burbank. They don't care if they sink the place.

I'll say this for Michael Eisner...he never wanted to retire. He lost his mind and ultimately sucked...but he was in it for the longterm.

I don't think Iger cares. It's about stock price for his options now. And none of the underlings want to "retire from Disney" either...they'll just jump ship to Apple or google or Comcast until THEY rule the world.

Its not just Disney - there are a lot of businesses that focus on keeping their stock prices high and investors happy at the expense of the future.

Sadly, the focus of the stock market these days is all about short term gains. If you have a business that is capital intensive or has a large physical plant, if you plan ahead for the future and plow money back into your company, your stock gets undervalued and no one wants to buy it.
 
Its not just Disney - there are a lot of businesses that focus on keeping their stock prices high and investors happy at the expense of the future.

Sadly, the focus of the stock market these days is all about short term gains. If you have a business that is capital intensive or has a large physical plant, if you plan ahead for the future and plow money back into your company, your stock gets undervalued and no one wants to buy it.

Exactly...the stock market is crap...to break it down simply.

Banks get fined hundreds of millions of Dollars every other year for being unscrupulous bankers...and their stock price goes up...

And where did it go wrong? The 80's and moreso the 90's...when the model changed and the reigns were taken off.

...speaking of - I wonder what's on tv tonight? ;)
 
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And where did it go wrong? The 80's and moreso the 90's...when the model changed and the reigns were taken off.

The reins weren't taken off just for the sake of doing so. People at the very top wanted to institute a massive regime of moneyprinting a.k.a. stimulus a.k.a. rampant inflation. The hosing of trillions of dollars into the world cannot be done so prudently or wisely. It means that people who would not and could not take on extremely high levels of debt must be encouraged and allowed to do so. They would not be allowed to take on so much under the previous rules. So the rules had to go.

If you watched the movie The Big Short it seemed to hammer on the theme of, look they deregulated, banks lost their minds and here we are. That's only partly true. The movie almost completely ignored the role of inflation instituted at the level of the Federal Reserve and other major central banks around the world, as being the reason for the urgent need to deregulate. Except for one tiny and significantly obtuse quote in the voice-over near the end of the movie which I quote from memory: " ... the chairman of the Federal Reserve who was the practically the architect of the whole bubble ... "

That's a bit off topic, but I think it's important for understanding Iger's behavior to first understand why the stock market is so lousy, why ordinary, prudent investments are so risky, and why shareholders are so recklessly focused on extremely short-term gains at the expense of the long term health of companies' fundamental brick-and-mortar assets.
 
Yeah, that confused me a bit too. I can only think of a couple potential explanations:
1. People are taking more "rest" days or spending more time at Disney Springs (though it wasn't really in full force most of Q3 I think)
2. Maybe people are park hopping less. I seem to remember reading that they count attendance based on the number of times someone enters a park, though not sure on this.
3. More conferences?
4. Doing more non-Disney activities such as Universal

5. Disney playing games with their occupancy rates by taking rooms out of inventory for maintenance or refurbishing. A room out of inventory doesn't count for purposes of determining occupancy. So what's a better way to improve the metrics of an under-performing property by taking a bunch of rooms out of inventory to refurb them? Or convert them to DVC, which is also not included in the occupancy statistics. **cough** WL **cough**
 
The reins weren't taken off just for the sake of doing so. People at the very top wanted to institute a massive regime of moneyprinting a.k.a. stimulus a.k.a. rampant inflation. The hosing of trillions of dollars into the world cannot be done so prudently or wisely. It means that people who would not and could not take on extremely high levels of debt must be encouraged and allowed to do so. They would not be allowed to take on so much under the previous rules. So the rules had to go.

If you watched the movie The Big Short it seemed to hammer on the theme of, look they deregulated, banks lost their minds and here we are. That's only partly true. The movie almost completely ignored the role of inflation instituted at the level of the Federal Reserve and other major central banks around the world, as being the reason for the urgent need to deregulate. Except for one tiny and significantly obtuse quote in the voice-over near the end of the movie which I quote from memory: " ... the chairman of the Federal Reserve who was the practically the architect of the whole bubble ... "

That's a bit off topic, but I think it's important for understanding Iger's behavior to first understand why the stock market is so lousy, why ordinary, prudent investments are so risky, and why shareholders are so recklessly focused on extremely short-term gains at the expense of the long term health of companies' fundamental brick-and-mortar assets.

Did I give you the impression that I thought it was a "natural phenomena"?

I understand the how and the why...the point is that it's wrecked sensible economics and "trickles down" to basic consumer pricing and our beloved Disney vacations...
...and we could be in for more craziness moving forward.

Keep accelerating right up until you run into the wall.
 
They introduced tiered pricing to address park crowding didn't they? So....why are they now panicking about decreased attendance?
 
They increased prices to make more revenue off the same products...now they are panicking as their business is flattening out or in small decline...

This is the reason/lesson that will be 100% true forever...nothing they state is worth considering
 
Walt Disney World attendance has been slightly down since around March of this year. It's not been drastic by any means but down from the same time last year. Resort occupancy and I'm not referring to DVC has remained strong all through the spring/summer and now fall. Even with the discounts on average guests are still spending more then they did last year on rooms.
The reason the guests are spending more on rooms is simple...WDW increased the prices!
 
One thing I found strange is the fact they have lower attendance but higher occupancy rates. Usually DVC occupancy is categorized on its own because its DVC so are people really staying at WDW hotels and not going to the parks?
My assumption on this was lower attendance by locals and those off site.
Between price increases, FP+ and booking dinning 180 days out I cant imagine staying off site and going to Disney.
For locals - its seems like they cant just decide in the morning to go to Disney for the day since much is booked up by all the folks staying on site far in advance.
You cant just show up unless you want to wait in lines - add on top of that the lack of things to do in HS and AK until new stuff comes.
Then there is the attraction of Universal and all the HP stuff.
Disney is no longer the only game in town - but they do continue to attract on site guests - and more profitable onsite guests it seems.

So yes attendance is "down" as seemingly were wait times - I did not find it particularly slow in mid September- but yes the wait times were not bad if you wanted to wait. I wonder how many people just don't do a ride if they don't have a FP+.
I did find myself not waiting for a ride that was over 20-30 minutes - a few years back I would have - is that a side affect of FP+? Who knows.
 

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