'Overrun with Kids'

[MisterOJ]

In the real world, there is following "the letter of the law" and following "the spirit of the law."

If you are driving along at 60 mph on a straight, four-lane road with a posted speed limit of 55 mph - you are breaking "the letter of the law." The spirit of the 55 mph speed limit though is to make sure everyone drives safely. If you are breaking the speed limit by a small amount, but otherwise driving safely - chances are you will never get a ticket. Now, drive 77 along that same stretch of road and it's likely a different story. You're breaking the letter and spirit of the law and there's a good chance you may get pulled over by law enforcement.

I think the adult pool area is much the same. If an adult is in that area and an 11-year-old child walks in, finds his/her parent and says, in a normal speaking voice, "Dad, I'm tired of swimming. I'm going to the Edge for a while. Is that okay?" - that shouldn't be a problem. Letter of the law, sure, it's not allowed. But I think the whole reason for having an adults only area is to give the adults on the ship a quiet place to relax apart from the craziness of the family areas. If a child can enter the adult area for a few moments and not disrupt the peace, that shouldn't bother anyone.

 

[tastefullyjenn]

Have you sailed on the Dream yet, might I ask? I am curious --and totally not in a mean spirit way but in the "reserving the right to get smarter" attitude--about your suggestions on how to handle the "poor ship design". So you are boarding an elevator a short walk from your cabin and heading to eat. No where on the elevator does it mark "floor 11 will deposit you into 18 and over area", how do you handle being deposited in such an area upon exiting? Do you reboard the elevator, go down to 10, walk to the next elevator bank, wait longer b/c of the traffic in the central elevators bank and then go back up?

The ship is large and signage on the Dream is not as obvious as one might think--ask anyone looking for Palo/Remy.

I think until you've been on the ship, it is hard to conceptualize how challenging the design is to avoid ending up in an adult area which is inherently different than "my kid and pop in to talk to me".

 

[BlackFrank]

In the real world, there is following "the letter of the law" and following "the spirit of the law."

If you are driving along at 60 mph on a straight, four-lane road with a posted speed limit of 55 mph - you are breaking "the letter of the law." The spirit of the 55 mph speed limit though is to make sure everyone drives safely. If you are breaking the speed limit by a small amount, but otherwise driving safely - chances are you will never get a ticket. Now, drive 77 along that same stretch of road and it's likely a different story. You're breaking the letter and spirit of the law and there's a good chance you may get pulled over by law enforcement.

I think the adult pool area is much the same. If an adult is in that area and an 11-year-old child walks in, finds his/her parent and says, in a normal speaking voice, "Dad, I'm tired of swimming. I'm going to the Edge for a while. Is that okay?" - that shouldn't be a problem. Letter of the law, sure, it's not allowed. But I think the whole reason for having an adults only area is to give the adults on the ship a quiet place to relax apart from the craziness of the family areas. If a child can enter the adult area for a few moments and not disrupt the peace, that shouldn't bother anyone.

It obviously is a problem though. Some people (and not just myself) consider the situation you've described unacceptable. Just because you're OK with it doesn't mean it should be allowed. That's the point of rules: you don't get to decide which ones to follow. (And for what it's worth, I have (once) been ticketed for driving 60 in a 55 mph zone).

 

[Makayna]

In the real world, there is following "the letter of the law" and following "the spirit of the law."

If you are driving along at 60 mph on a straight, four-lane road with a posted speed limit of 55 mph - you are breaking "the letter of the law." The spirit of the 55 mph speed limit though is to make sure everyone drives safely. If you are breaking the speed limit by a small amount, but otherwise driving safely - chances are you will never get a ticket. Now, drive 77 along that same stretch of road and it's likely a different story. You're breaking the letter and spirit of the law and there's a good chance you may get pulled over by law enforcement.

I think the adult pool area is much the same. If an adult is in that area and an 11-year-old child walks in, finds his/her parent and says, in a normal speaking voice, "Dad, I'm tired of swimming. I'm going to the Edge for a while. Is that okay?" - that shouldn't be a problem. Letter of the law, sure, it's not allowed. But I think the whole reason for having an adults only area is to give the adults on the ship a quiet place to relax apart from the craziness of the family areas. If a child can enter the adult area for a few moments and not disrupt the peace, that shouldn't bother anyone.

I think the point that they are making is that everybody's "spirit of the law" is different. So, in order to keep EVERYONE on the same page, the rules should be enforced to the LETTER of the law.

To you, driving 60 in a 55 is not breaking the spirit of the law. To somebody else, driving 70 in a 55 is not breaking the spirit of the law. The LETTER of the law is 55 and THAT is not changing.

So, with kids in adult areas, if kids quietly come in, get their parents, and they all leave quietly to discuss things in a non-adult area, *most* people would be OK with that. And if EVERY kid did that ALWAYS, and NO kid was EVER disruptive, loud or obnoxious, then there probably wouldn't be a NEED for adult-only areas. But what one family sees as "quiet" might be entirely different to another family. And since their interpretation is different, the LETTER of the law is "no kids in adult areas" so that there's no confusion.

And so one family might see kids quietly walking to the door of an adult area, quietly calling their parents, and the parents quietly walk out to speak to their children. So then other people think that's perfectly OK. So then another family sees that and thinks it's OK, and their kids walk all the way into an adult area, quietly walk up to their parents, and the parents leave with the kids to talk in a non-adult area and another family sees that. Then another family sees that and thinks it's OK, and their kids quietly walk into the adult area and sit and talk to their parents right there in the adult area for several minutes. Then another family sees that and thinks it's OK, and their kids walk in NOT quietly, sit and talk to their parents LOUDLY, and then swim in the pool, eat a snack and hang out all day in the adults-only area.

See the progression? Each one of those was breaking the "letter of the law" but the "spirit of the law" was NOT broken in the first three scenarios, but WAS broken in the last one (the one where the kids where loud and swimming in the adult pool). But each time, it was more and more and more! Where do you draw the line?!?!?!

Again, each family's idea of "quiet" is different. So you can't make a rule that says, "kids must be quiet in adult only areas." They're adult only areas for a reason!

Now I personally wouldn't tell someone or make a big stink about the first three of those scenarios above. But in order to prevent the fourth scenario, the other three families SHOULD have simply respected the "adults only" rule as well!

Disney goes to great lengths to help families keep connected. They give them wave phones that are able to be used on board the ship and at Castaway Cay. They make provisions for families so that they can get a hold of each other, should they need to. And, again, while I wouldn't complain about the first three scenarios, and those things would not bother ME in the slightest, in all honesty, they probably shouldn't happen either because there ARE other means for parents to stay connected with their children.

 

[Nevada]

The more that I think about it the more I think my FIL's comment may have to do with his hearing and a slight fear of so much kid noise. His hearing has taken a nosedive recently but he has yet to get any help for his new problem. So it's not so much he doesn't want to be around kids but he's a little concerned about being able to hear ppl speaking to him.

 

[orlandothebeagle]

I agree with you 100%. Excepting extenuating circumstances (medical emergency, etc.) it's NOT OK for your kids to be in an adult areas for ANY REASON.

"No one under 18 allowed" does not mean it's OK to pass through the area, it does not mean it's OK to talk quietly with your kids for a few minutes; it means NO KIDS ALLOWED. What part of this is so difficult to understand?

Perhaps ironically, I'm not actually bothered by the mere presence of children in these areas. What really upsets me is the obvious disregard for established rules and those people who feel entitled to break rules they find inconvenient ("lighten up Frank, our situation is different, so it's OK for *us* to break this rule"). (What a fantastic lesson to teach your kids! )

I understand that my rant(s) will likely go unheeded, as the people that break the rules have a "it's different when we do it because we're special" attitude so I'm either preaching to the choir or this is falling on deaf ears.

Regardless of whether or not anyone complains, or whether or not the rule is enforced, or whether or not the reason you're breaking the rules is due to "bad ship design", it's never OK for anyone under 18 to be in an "adults only" area.

The more that I think about it the more I think my FIL's comment may have to do with his hearing and a slight fear of so much kid noise. His hearing has taken a nosedive recently but he has yet to get any help for his new problem. So it's not so much he doesn't want to be around kids but he's a little concerned about being able to hear ppl speaking to him.

Maybe thats a good thing

 

[Trekker]

Just curious - am I allowed to walk into the Teen area for just a few minutes to find my teenager and have a quick discussion?

 

[orlandothebeagle]

Just curious - am I allowed to walk into the Teen area for just a few minutes to find my teenager and have a quick discussion?

I wouldnt, what would it do to her street cred?

 

[DynamicDisneyDuo]

The more that I think about it the more I think my FIL's comment may have to do with his hearing and a slight fear of so much kid noise. His hearing has taken a nosedive recently but he has yet to get any help for his new problem. So it's not so much he doesn't want to be around kids but he's a little concerned about being able to hear ppl speaking to him.

As long as he avoids kid-centric areas and is close enough to those he wished to speak to, it shouldn't be a problem. One of my biggest concerns prior to our first DCL cruise was thinking kids would be everywhere. Nothing could have been farther from the truth. Hardly ever even noticed them on any cruises and that's with having done one over Labor Day.

 

[Gigi22]

OP, once you are on board the ship you can do an adults only tour of the areas where children are not allowed for your MIL and FIL. Point out Palo, the Cove Cafe, adult pool area, the spa, and go to the bar area and explain the access rules for them.

 

[chocolate_monsta]

Just my two cents worth - because I can...

I am sorry - but frankly it does not matter one tiny little bit if you were speeding at 1mile over the limit, 10 miles or 30 miles... Either way you are speeding, and therefore, breaking the law.

Just doing a few miles over has nothing to do with the "spirit". If you intentionally speed, or set your cruise control to even just 1 mile over the limit - then you are intentionally speeding - and as such both the so called "spirit" and the letter of the law have been broken. The "spirit" that you talk of is trying your genuine best to not break that law.

The problem is, if 1mile over is ok, and 2 miles over is ok... where do you draw the line... The answer??? You don't need to draw the line... It's already drawn for you crystal clear... If the speed limit is 60 - there is your line. Anything above this is speeding, and not allowed!!!!!!!


You cannot intentionally break any rule, and say "but I have not broken the spirit of the law".....

Obviously in situations there will be reasons to need to - in an emergency or accidently a child may have to enter an adult area on a cruise ship.... If a crazed gunman was chasing me in my vehchle I'd drive as fast as I could....

BUT laws and rules are there to be followed - and any intentional breach of these is exactly that - intentional.....

Sorry to rant but that "spirit of the law" and using speeding as an example was pretty poor!!!! - I was hit by a driver that was only "a little bit over" the speed limit - I spent over 3 months in hospital, was in rehab for a year, and 5 years later am still having surgeries and other stuff to try and fix the damage that driver caused. I have quite a few injuries that will never be fixed....

I personally wouldn't care so much if a kid entered an adult area accidently, so long as they left again. The same if there was an emergency or similar. However, if they just need to talk to mum and dad for a minute and it's not an emergency, I would instruct them to wait outside the adult area and ask a cast member, or even another adult about to head in, if they can get thier parents for them.

See whilst 1 kid coming into the adult area for a minute or two to ask mum and dad sometime is not a huge deal, what happens when everyones kid does this..... 200 kids in the adult area each for a few minutes, means a LOT of time where the adult area is not actually an adult area....

Anyway.... I don't have kids and I'm not overly fussed (I actually hope at some point we can go take some photo's in the kids area???) but just my opinion... Because I can....

 

[clawmachine]

Personally I don't like segregated areas of any kind, anywhere, unless it's a matter of health, safety or appropriateness. JMHO, and no, I did not allow my kids anywhere near the adult section. I had no interest in going there and excluding them either, though..

 

[NickyKnack]

Hey, I'll support the desegregation of the ship if that means I get to go play in the kids area/activities from time to time. I want to make green goop and bake chocolate chip cookies... there are quite a few activities in the kids area's I'm excluded from. I'll happily give up a tiny swimming pool over filled with sweaty adults, a tiny coffee shop with stale snacks, in order to get access to those things.

That said I think I still want to keep Palo, so they can keep character meets in the kids areas to themselves... fair trade.

*Not the tone of good natured amusement, not meant to rile. =)

Personally I don't like segregated areas of any kind, anywhere, unless it's a matter of health, safety or appropriateness. JMHO, and no, I did not allow my kids anywhere near the adult section. I had no interest in going there and excluding them either, though..

 

[cmclaura]

Can I come bake chocolate chip cookies, too, can I, please, can I?

I don't drink coffee (although the Cove Cafe's Chai Lattes are yummy) and I don't like pastry, and I've made slime before, so I think I'd be a good candidate.

Do you think the kids would take umbrage and call a CM to throw us out of the area?

 

[FrostMommy]

Maybe it will be fixed on the Fantasy!

Yeah, I did both trans-Atlantics last year. On each, we had fewer than 400 people under 18! It was actually delightful! Of course, having the ship half empty was a lovely thing too! With the "normal" kid load on the Magic being 1200.....yeah, the "big kids" had a great time. They even gave us special "adult only" time in the Lab! Really!

Adult Only time in the lab...that actually does sound like fun. I know I get a little envious when looking at the stuff my kids get to do.

 

[drparoo]

Interesting discussion. I have to say, I drive faster than I should. That"s my choice but I certainly would have no basis to argue or complain should I get a ticket. The law is indeed the law and I know that going in.

The funny thing is, for my first three cruises, I never once set foot into any adult area. Why? Because my kids were young enough that I wanted them to be able to find me. I didn't want THEM setting foot in an adult area. Whether or not there should be "segregated areas", the fact is that there are, the rules are there, adults go in there for a reason, and it's not my place to challenge those rules, because others might be affected.

My last cruise I finally went into the Cove area. And there were two kids, sitting on the chaise with their parents and grand parents. Were they disruptive? Well, I guess not, but they were laughing loudly at what their grandparents were saying. They might have been just sitting there for a few minutes, but I was shocked that they were there at all. We all think our own kids are polite and sweet and cute (and yes, mine are!!), but others might not. Sometimes adults just want a quiet breather. They might be celebrating the fact that their kids are finally grown. They want their own area. Geez, let them have it.

If you want your kids to be able to find you, then choose another place to sit. Or use the wave phones.

Now, I haven't been on the Dream and haven't seen the traffic patterns there. I hope they fix it so that the adult areas are truly adult areas, even if I decide to never use it.

 

[Ikaikalani]

We're two single adults and I had the same concerns before our first Disney Cruise...and I'm pleased to say my worries were unfounded. The activities are planned in such a way that whenever we were out and about the ship, at times it seemed as if hardly anyone was aboard (and this was a sold out New Years cruise). Everyone always seems to be squirreled away doing things and children are hardly ever under foot. But when they are around, it's no problem as everyone is so happy and having fun, it's great to see the wonder and smiles on their faces!

 

[BlackFrank]

Have you sailed on the Dream yet, might I ask? I am curious --and totally not in a mean spirit way but in the "reserving the right to get smarter" attitude--about your suggestions on how to handle the "poor ship design". So you are boarding an elevator a short walk from your cabin and heading to eat. No where on the elevator does it mark "floor 11 will deposit you into 18 and over area", how do you handle being deposited in such an area upon exiting? Do you reboard the elevator, go down to 10, walk to the next elevator bank, wait longer b/c of the traffic in the central elevators bank and then go back up?

The ship is large and signage on the Dream is not as obvious as one might think--ask anyone looking for Palo/Remy.

I think until you've been on the ship, it is hard to conceptualize how challenging the design is to avoid ending up in an adult area which is inherently different than "my kid and pop in to talk to me".

That's a good question. What happens if you take your children into an adult area by accident? I think in this case, it would be reasonable to quickly and quietly walk through the adult area (perhaps with a look of embarrassment on your face ). (I personally wouldn't find this in any way objectionable, as it was done innocently, you've acknowledged the situation, and are attempting to rectify it as fast as possible in the least disruptive way). And of course the next time, you'd choose an alternate route!

This really wasn't what I meant by the "poor ship design" excuse that I've heard. That applied to people who would continue to walk through the adult area even after they knew that it was there (and rationalize their behavior by claiming "poor ship design" instead of choosing an alternate route which might inconvenience them for a minute or two).

 

[Mrs. Gumdrop]

OP, On our first cruise, traveling only with adults I did notice a lot of kids. We were perfectly fine with that, but I did take a different approach to walking down the corridors. I found that many of the kids didn't have a good sense of space. Instead of looking straight ahead, I started looking down slightly as I walked. I ran into fewer kids zooming around without looking!

Adult Only time in the lab...that actually does sound like fun. I know I get a little envious when looking at the stuff my kids get to do.

On the longer cruises (14 days+) you can do special activitied in the kids clubs! I wish it were all the time!