Our dog bit our neighbor last night -- UPDATED POST 137, PAGE 10

[bettymae1121]

Cocker spaniels are notorious biters.

Not all cockers are like this. I had a cocker growing up that my parents bought from a highly reputable breader and she was the most wonderful dog. You could take food out of her mouth and she'd just wag her tail at you. Family, friends, strangers, other dogs, she loved everyone.

That said, I think there are some (maybe many) cockers that come from poorly bred lines that do have issues. Anyone wanting a cocker should buy from a private breeder (absolutely NEVER from a pet store) and make sure the breeder is a good one, with a good reputation. It's more expensive, but worth it in the long run.

As for the OP, I'd have your dog checked out by a vet, and seen by a good dog trainer. I'd give trying to save this dog a shot, first. But ultimately, if nothing can be done, I'm afraid you won't have much choice but to put him down.

 

[Jockaroo]

Your first stop is the vet's office. Be up-front and honest about what happened (I know you will be). He will need a full work up and he may need a specialist. Know that it could take a decent amount of money to figure out what is happening. I would also try to contact his breeder if you possibly can. A good breeder will want to know about this and may know of health issues that have appeared in his line.

I do wonder if something happened at the kennel. He may be hurting, have lost more of his vision, or possibly be having hearing issues as well. I had a dog that got age-related deafness and I had to be very careful waking him from a deep sleep. He would growl out of fear until he knew it was me. He never bit. Cockers can get nasty ear infections, so he could have some hearing issues as well. I've also seen some information about a condition called Cocker Rage or Spaniel Rage.

Your neighbor wasn't thinking clearly when she reached out to pet him. No way I would try to touch a dog that had bitten his owner this way. But, you should offer to pay her medical expenses--which I'm sure your family will.

I really hope that you can track down a medical reason for this and it is something that can be treated. If not, your vet can help you make decisions that may need to be made.

 

[lovesmurfs]

I'm so glad there are so many points of view -- I hadn't even considered anxiety medication! We have an appointment at the vet for 5:00 this afternoon, and then another in 10 days (it's a legal issue as well). The kennel says (as predicted) that nothing weird happened while he was there -- but it's just so out of character for him. He just had his annual physical on June 12.

I absolutely told my neighbor we would cover any/all bills (before she even left my yard), and we have filed a claim with our homeowner's insurance -- the adjuster is calling her today. We're doing everything we can to handle this as best as can be handled.

Thanks again.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Glad to know you care so little for the people on your life that you would put them in danger. Her own daughter isn't safe. I would hope you are the exception not the rule.

Originally Posted by Rupert B Puppenstein
Good to know that you would give up on a dog you have had for six years that easily. Why not rule out medical problems first? Sorry, I just think that is cruel and one of the reasons that parents get such a bad rap for throwing away pets after they have kids. I would hope that you are the exception rather than the rule.


FWIW I don't think its fair or nice that Rupert was quoted on the statement above (post at 9-30) and not on the whole quote (at about 9-15) ..Rupert suggested medical checkup first, not just give up immediately on the dog
(why does it always get ugly )

 

[Luvchefmic]

I'm so glad there are so many points of view -- I hadn't even considered anxiety medication! We have an appointment at the vet for 5:00 this afternoon, and then another in 10 days (it's a legal issue as well). The kennel says (as predicted) that nothing weird happened while he was there -- but it's just so out of character for him. He just had his annual physical on June 12.

I absolutely told my neighbor we would cover any/all bills (before she even left my yard), and we have filed a claim with our homeowner's insurance -- the adjuster is calling her today. We're doing everything we can to handle this as best as can be handled.

Thanks again.

Good luck to you all, please let us know what happens

 

[livie1205]

I am sorry but when it comes to my kids getting bit...no...yes take him to get him looked at but you cant have your child getting bit..

 

[lovesmurfs]

Not all cockers are like this. I had a cocker growing up that my parents bought from a highly reputable breader and she was the most wonderful dog. You could take food out of her mouth and she'd just wag her tail at you. Family, friends, strangers, other dogs, she loved everyone.

That said, I think there are some (maybe many) cockers that come from poorly bred lines that do have issues. Anyone wanting a cocker should buy from a private breeder (absolutely NEVER from a pet store) and make sure the breeder is a good one, with a good reputation. It's more expensive, but worth it in the long run.

As for the OP, I'd have your dog checked out by a vet, and seen by a good dog trainer. I'd give trying to save this dog a shot, first. But ultimately, if nothing can be done, I'm afraid you won't have much choice but to put him down.

Our other cocker was so wonderful, and docile like yours was. Both dogs came from different breeders, but they were from private breeders and from good lines. We just wanted family pets, so we never showed and had both neutered.

 

[phorsenuf]

I would imagine animal control will pay a visit. Don't dog bites have to be reported by the hospital? If they find out that it has bitten a couple times before than they may order you to put him down. Unless you don't inform them of past issues, which I truly hope you don't.
Me personally, I would not want an unpredictable dog around my children. The risk is not worth it.

 

[Jockaroo]

Glad to know you care so little for the people on your life that you would put them in danger. Her own daughter isn't safe. I would hope you are the exception not the rule.

The OP stated her daughter isn't home until the end of July; the daughter isn't in immediate danger. For those of us who view pets as members of the family, we tend to want to see if there is a medical reason and if a problem could be treated. The vet will be needed whether it is for a medical check up or euthanasia. The dog may have a severe neurological problem or brain lesion that can't be treated, but if this is the case the OP will have a much more peaceful heart letting go.

There are huge red flags. The dog attacked his owner. The dog is trying to escape his home area. The neighbor did not use good judgment, but the dog owner does have liability. This is very stressful for the family.

 

[DebbieB]

Last Night
Last night, DH took the dog outside (it was a glorious evening) and put him in the backyard. We went to dinner in separate cars, as he had errands to do. When I drove home, our next door neighbor and our neighbor across the street were in our front yard rounding up our dog, who had apparently dug under the gate again and had gotten loose. Our dog knows our neighbor very well.

You left him in the backyard and went out to dinner? My neighbor does that and the dog is barking in the yard the whole time they are gone. I just don't get it. Their dog was missing for a couple days, probably got out while they were gone. If you leave the house, take your dog in.

You are probably going to have insurance issues now. If you keep the dog, expect a large premium increase or a cancellation.

 

[GSDRescuer]

In your case, I'd say something definitely happened at the kennel. It could be something as simple as anxiety, it could be that he was accidentally hurt by someone and that compounded with the bad eyesight and anxiety at the kennel has caused a bigger issue. I'd take him to the vet, as others have said, and see if it's something you can work with. If it's not, and that may be the case, I'd look into a cocker spaniel rescue program. The rescues know the breeds that they work with well, and they might be able to place him in a home that's well suited to his needs.

That and also keep trying to contact the kennel to get the truth from someone there.
Good luck.

 

[cindy58]

What a stressful thing to deal with. I can't imagine why the neighbor reached out to pet him after he had just bitten you as he did though.

 

[luvwinnie]

First, let me tell you I empathize. Our rescue bulldog has had aggression issues that we have worked through, but there are still "situational" aggression things we have to manage. I know his issues are from the way he was treated in the past...but the first thing we did was have a medical workup including a FULL THYROID PANEL. Tell your vet you want one done and sent to the Michigan State Univ. lab. Many vets just do a partial test unless specified.
A dog with vision issues will absolutely be prone to aggression out of fear. No one should be petting him on the head (in general dogs can view that gesture as threatening) especially not after he was so worked up! and had just bitten you! What was your neighbor thinking??
Praying for you all.

 

[StacyMarie]

I would imagine animal control will pay a visit. Don't dog bites have to be reported by the hospital? If they find out that it has bitten a couple times before than they may order you to put him down. Unless you don't inform them of past issues, which I truly hope you don't.
Me personally, I would not want an unpredictable dog around my children. The risk is not worth it.

Animal control may or may not order you to put the dog down, it depends on your city/county ordinances. Where I live, my daughter was bitten by a rotweiller 3 summers ago who happened to belong to the people living in our rental property. This dog had a biting history. If my daughter would have been facing the dog when he bit her, he would have bitten her in the neck. Because her back was to him at the time he attacked, he bit her on the back of the shoulder. My daughter has a perfect round FULL set of teeth marks on her shoulder that is there permanently. I would post the pics but I am not sure how to post them. My husband and I went to animal control but there is a no city ordinance in my town requiring the dog to be put down no matter how many times he has bitten. I probably could have pursued the issue legally and taken them to court but instead we kicked them out of our rental property and sent them on their way.

Keep us posted if it is a medical issue. I bet he was treated poorly at the kennel and when your neighbors were trying to catch him last night, they spooked him and brought back some bad memories. He also has trouble seeing so my guess is that has something to do with it too. If you can't see what is coming, of course it is going to scare you more. I bet he has anxiety issues and needs medication.

Keep us posted!

 

[bettymae1121]

Our other cocker was so wonderful, and docile like yours was. Both dogs came from different breeders, but they were from private breeders and from good lines. We just wanted family pets, so we never showed and had both neutered.

That's too bad, it sounds like you did everything right! If the breeder you bought him from is still around, let him/her know of your troubles so they can make better choices in the future about breeding. I'm not saying your breeder is a bad one, sometimes problems just crop up out of the blue. But if the breeder isn't aware of it, they just keep breeding the same lines.

 

[terribm]

First, let me tell you I empathize. Our rescue bulldog has had aggression issues that we have worked through, but there are still "situational" aggression things we have to manage. I know his issues are from the way he was treated in the past...but the first thing we did was have a medical workup including a FULL THYROID PANEL. Tell your vet you want one done and sent to the Michigan State Univ. lab. Many vets just do a partial test unless specified.
A dog with vision issues will absolutely be prone to aggression out of fear. No one should be petting him on the head (in general dogs can view that gesture as threatening) especially not after he was so worked up! and had just bitten you! What was your neighbor thinking??
Praying for you all.

Her neighbor was probably thinking that she was going to pet a dog that she knew very well on the head to help try to soothe him. He was in the arms of his owner and she stated she had calmed him down. Why on earth would you blame her neighbor for petting the dog on the head.

 

[TwinsinCA]

You left him in the backyard and went out to dinner? My neighbor does that and the dog is barking in the yard the whole time they are gone. I just don't get it. Their dog was missing for a couple days, probably got out while they were gone. If you leave the house, take your dog in.

We have neighbors like this too.

What bothers me about the OP's story is that she says the dog dug his way out *again*. Why would you leave a dog you *know* is capable of digging his way out and "nipping" in the backyard and then leave?

The dog has nipped/bit four different people. That is three too many IMO. I would not keep an animal that aggressive.

 

[phorsenuf]

Hi! This is truly a WWYD question, because I'm really at a loss, and pretty heartbroken. I thought if I typed it out, it might help me see things more clearly. This will be long (to provide details to try to avoid assumptions, etc.), so I'll try to divide it up.

Backstory
We've had our cocker spaniel (pure bred) since he was 8 weeks old -- he's 6 now (neutered since 6 months old). Our other cocker (also pure bred, neutered at 9 months) was 13 years old when we got the new puppy, but adjusted really well to the interloper. I won't use names, to keep it objective.

Our older one died in 2007, and our new one handled it very well and enjoys being the center of our world. We've noticed from early on that he has vision problems. Doesn't affect his activities, etc. but we have to be careful not to startle him.

Kennelling
We've kennelled both dogs on and off for weekends here and there, and the occasional week-long vacation -- always the same (accredited) kennel. He never has shown any anxiety to go for a car ride, or to arrive at the kennel. This past weekend, he was kennelled from Thursday until my DH picked him up on Sunday afternoon -- I was taking the kids to camp in NY State.

Since he's been home, he's been very anxious about being in the backyard, and has even dug under the fence, which he has never done. DH filled the hole Monday evening and didn't think anything more about it. We have a call in to the kennel to see if anything happened during the stay, but I'm sure they'll say no when they call back.

Biting
About 2 years ago, he started growling at my DD10 whenever she'd come close to him without warning. A couple of times, he would follow up with a nip; once drew blood. Two months ago, DD had a friend over (who has two large dogs -- a lab and a Rottweiler, I believe -- so she has no fear of dogs), and our dog nipped her (no blood). We've just started keeping the dog away from guests as a precaution.

Last Night
Last night, DH took the dog outside (it was a glorious evening) and put him in the backyard. We went to dinner in separate cars, as he had errands to do. When I drove home, our next door neighbor and our neighbor across the street were in our front yard rounding up our dog, who had apparently dug under the gate again and had gotten loose. Our dog knows our neighbor very well.

As she was taking the dog (by the choke chain) back to the yard, I greeted him; he was happy. I picked him up (he's used to it), and he just went crazy. He bit me on my right hand several times, then on my chest, leaving deep cuts and bruises. I kept holding him until he calmed down (I didn't want to risk letting him loose again), and he relaxed again. Neighbor then petted his head, and he bit her hand, hard. She wound up with three stitches.

Advice Needed
So now what? WWYD? Was this a situational problem that might never happen again? Should we put him down? If so, do DH and I do it now, or after we bring the kids home from camp (they're gone until the end of July)? We've already decided not to leave him in the backyard again, but what if he gets loose? I feel guilt either way.

I have had dogs my entire life. I always said that I would never, ever have a dog that I couldn't trust not to bite (the kids know this as well), and we consider ourselves responsible pet owners. We were working around the problem thinking he just didn't have patience with kids. Our neighbor is very well known to him, and for him to bite her, and me, it's just really disconcerting. And sad.

Thanks for reading and for your help.

How many times had he gotten out before?

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

He started the aggressive behavior years ago, and has bitten far longer than a week or two. This isn't a new behavior. Blaming the kennel when he has been a biter for ages is wrong. The daughter and friend have been bitten. The owner and a neighbor. How many people should he be allowed to hurt with the potential to seriously harm someone?

 

[lilybrooke14]

Not all cockers are like this. I had a cocker growing up that my parents bought from a highly reputable breader and she was the most wonderful dog. You could take food out of her mouth and she'd just wag her tail at you. Family, friends, strangers, other dogs, she loved everyone.

That said, I think there are some (maybe many) cockers that come from poorly bred lines that do have issues. Anyone wanting a cocker should buy from a private breeder (absolutely NEVER from a pet store) and make sure the breeder is a good one, with a good reputation. It's more expensive, but worth it in the long run.

As for the OP, I'd have your dog checked out by a vet, and seen by a good dog trainer. I'd give trying to save this dog a shot, first. But ultimately, if nothing can be done, I'm afraid you won't have much choice but to put him down.

No, not all cockers are biters. I didn't mean to imply that. It's an issue with the breed though, and you can't assume that because you got your cocker at a reputable breeder that it won't bite. Both of ours were from reputable breeders, both were raised lovingly and gently. However, cocker spaniels are very submissive and very sensitive. That's what causes the submissive urination that also tends to be an issue.

Cockers have been ranked above all other dogs in number of biting incidents. (They don't make the most dangerous biting dog lists though, because they generally don't do much damage.) There's even a name for when they flip out on their owners for no apparent reason, "cocker rage." This behavior is present in both American and English cocker spaniels. Plenty of them would never consider biting anybody and go through life happy go lucky. These issues with the breed are real though, so there's no reason to gloss over them. People, especially people with small children, need to be aware of them in order to choose the best breed for their families. Cocker spaniels are incredibly cute puppies, and sometimes it's hard to see past that.

Cockers are also prone to trouble with ears and eyes, as well as skin conditions and fatty tumors. They require only moderate exercise, and are great companion dogs. Very loving and affectionate. They often suffer from separation anxiety, and they tend to be barkers, alarm barking at doorbells ringing on TV and leaves blowing on the back porch. And the garbage truck. Every freaking week.