OT: pre-school or Kindergarten? Can't decide.

[JamesMom]

Slightly OT here, but I wish I had the option of holding my son back!

My DS4 is the special education program at the public elementary school with an IEP. He enrolled in the program last year with speech delay and sensory issues (borderline austism). When I say speech delay, I mean he didn't call me Mama until he was 3.5. He now has a vocabulary in the 100s of words but still needs diction work. He is in a class of 5 students (all boys) with 1 teacher, 1 teacher assistant, a student teacher with additional therapies in speech, OT and PT on a weekly basis.
Because of state law he MUST go to kindergarden as soon as he turns five - which is July. So he will move into a class with up to 20 kids with 1 teacher and possible a student teacher. Because of his IEP he will get extra one on one help as needed and stay in OT,PT & speech but I am scared to death. He is very regimented and follows his own set of rituals and is socially immature. I fully anticipate him repeated kindergarten and would have liked the opportunity to keep in preschool for one more year. My son does know how to count to 10, can id shapes & letters, but I really don't see him read to read or do computation by next year. His current diction and small motor skill delay will make him hard to understand in oral and written communication and that is where the focus needs to be.
Of course, I can enroll him in private preschool, but I would loose the OT, PT and speech programs (have to private pay through insurance I guess $$$$) and pray that the preschool program can adapt to his particular needs.
My other option, the least enticing of the three is to send him to a special needs class of K-2 where the hard core cases are. I want him mainstreamed to help with his verbal and social skills - just not in such a large and structured environment, not to mention fast paced.
Good luck with your choice and be glad you have them.

 

[robinb]

Posting without reading what others have said ...

I rather regret sending my DD to Kindergarten instead of holding her back a year. Her birthday is 2 weeks before the cut off and even though her pre-school said she was ready, I'm not so sure she was really ready. She was actually fine in K, but had a really crappy 1st grade teacher and she never recovered from that. Being one of the youngest kids in the class didn't help matters either. Her older classmates were able to bounce back from that teacher but she still struggles at grade level 4 years later. She makes it, but just barely. It's like she's been a day late and a dollar short her entire school career. I can't help but wonder about if holding her back ... being just a little bit older, mature and ready to learn ... would have made a difference.

 

[ekball]

I would send him to kindergarten. I am in the same boat with my daughter..she has a Sept 29 bday and our cutoff is Oct 1st. I see no reason to hold them back unless there are real issues..it doesn't seem like your son has issues with learning.

Totally agree. I did some waffling back and forth about sending DD or holding her in pre-K another year - bday is Oct. 23 and cutoff is Dec. 31. I knew she would be one of the younger kids, but she was ready. Someone is always going to be the youngest, someone will always be the oldest...I just don't understand holding a child back just because of their birthday and just because of the "what-ifs".

OP - I hope you are able to make a decision that you feel good about. I am so happy we sent DD to Kindy as it was the right decision for us. Will there be times where she might struggle? Maybe. But I can't make decisions based on the maybes and the what-ifs. I can only choose to do what I think is best based on the information I have today.

 

[kpgriswold]

If a child genuinely had a problem with something that is one thing. If a child just refuses to do the work because they don't feel like it then that is entirely different. A child doesn't get to decide how the classroom is run. If coloring is at 9:00 and blocks are at 10:00 then that is how it is. The child doesn't get to say "Well, I don't want to color so I am going to play blocks instead." The teacher is in charge of the classroom. The child needs to follow the rules. I have seen plenty of kids like this where the parents make an excuse for poor behavior (not saying the OP is) and they go on and on about just how smart their kid is ad nauseum. The reality is the kid runs the show in their home and is no smarter than any other kid except that they are never told no. That is not creatitivity. That is brattiness.

I totally agree!

I think your first post just touched on one of my own pet peeves, which is that so many of my special ed students get lumped into the "bad behavior" category when what they really need is help.

And you're right also that blanket staments about gender are not accurate. I should have used qualifiers like "many" or "most", the way I do when I am at school. I sometimes forget to use my more careful "teacher speak" when I am off duty.

 

[kpgriswold]

So because of a learning disability they should not behave or do what is asked of them?

Sometimes kids are just lazy. (not saying any of this is what is going on with OP's child) and need to be kept on task and/or motivated to get the project done.

No, you just have to be sure that what you are asking of them is not beyond their ability. If you ask me to pick up a 100 lb rock, you can lecture and yell at me til you are blue and I won't pick it up because I can't.

Likewise, if a kid with dysgraphia is asked to write 10 sentences, he may balk becuase he knows he can't. But he may be able to write 5, with some support.

Kids need to be challenged to the highest level of their own ability. And EVERYONE needs to follow the rules. I'm just saying we adults need to be careful about what we label as misbehavior.

 

[ToyStoryBo]

Slightly OT here, but I wish I had the option of holding my son back!

My DS4 is the special education program at the public elementary school with an IEP. He enrolled in the program last year with speech delay and sensory issues (borderline austism). When I say speech delay, I mean he didn't call me Mama until he was 3.5. He now has a vocabulary in the 100s of words but still needs diction work. He is in a class of 5 students (all boys) with 1 teacher, 1 teacher assistant, a student teacher with additional therapies in speech, OT and PT on a weekly basis.
Because of state law he MUST go to kindergarden as soon as he turns five - which is July. So he will move into a class with up to 20 kids with 1 teacher and possible a student teacher. Because of his IEP he will get extra one on one help as needed and stay in OT,PT & speech but I am scared to death. He is very regimented and follows his own set of rituals and is socially immature. I fully anticipate him repeated kindergarten and would have liked the opportunity to keep in preschool for one more year. My son does know how to count to 10, can id shapes & letters, but I really don't see him read to read or do computation by next year. His current diction and small motor skill delay will make him hard to understand in oral and written communication and that is where the focus needs to be.
Of course, I can enroll him in private preschool, but I would loose the OT, PT and speech programs (have to private pay through insurance I guess $$$$) and pray that the preschool program can adapt to his particular needs.
My other option, the least enticing of the three is to send him to a special needs class of K-2 where the hard core cases are. I want him mainstreamed to help with his verbal and social skills - just not in such a large and structured environment, not to mention fast paced.
Good luck with your choice and be glad you have them.

I am so sorry you're dealing with this situation. What state are you in? I'm in IL, and our law states a child doesn't have to attend school til age 7. I will be more grateful that I do have the choice now!

 

[ToyStoryBo]

THank you to those who have replied so far. I am still not quite sure what to do. I would loove to give him the gift of time, but 6 just seems too old to be in K. Like some of you have said, a year might be too much time for him, and he'd be really bored in K then. I am one of those moms who just loves having my kids around, and would much rather have them home with me than thrown to the wolves on a daily basis. Kids can be so cruel, so of course I would love to keep him home. I am just still trying to decide what is in HIS best interest. I can see him being successful either way, honestly. I think he would probably be fine in K next year, but maybe he would be even better if we waited a year. I am totally on the fence....

But I have another question.....

I repeatedly see people mentioning that it is soo much better to be the oldest in the class rather than the youngest. I get that to an extent, but what I don't get about it is don't kids make fun of them for being so much older? For instance, my oldest DS has an August b/day, so he's one of the youngest in his class. He's 10 1/2, and there's at least one kid in his class who is 12. And yes, the kids try to speculate why....is he dumb? did he get held back a year? did he flunk a grade? etc. So, that makes me wonder if kids who are older get teased because of it? I am asking this sincerely because I've not been there (yet), as my kids in school so far are the youngest or in the middle. Another DS has a mid September b/day, and he started early. He's now in 2nd grade and is 7 1/2, and he has a few in his class who are 9. He feels honored to be in a class with 9 yr olds, because he must be really smart!! So he gains lots of confidence being the youngest because he feels smart enough to be hanging with the older kids. So I see this goes both ways. And yes, we debated putting that DS thru early just like we are debating other DS waiting....but he was soo definitely ready, and I figured that if his b/day would have been 16 days earlier, it wouldn't have been a second thought....and I didn't think it was fair to HIM to hold him back a year because of 15 days. I had a late Sept b/day, and loved being the youngest in my class.

I see that this thread has gotten slightly de-railed, and I want to say that I don't care for blanket statements regarding gender, either. A child is a child. However, it is proven fact that boys and girls are wired differently. My Dr recommend I read a book called "The Trouble With Boys". I have not read it yet, but thought I would throw that out there in case others are interested too. My Dr said it explains that boys are NOT "wired" to sit all day and be "preached" to. They are "wired" to be physical, so they don't always learn as well in a school environment. And teachers in elem school are mostly female, so they aren't providing any male influences.....I could go on and on.....I think I will go get the book today, sounds like it's worth checking out.

And no, my DS is not bratty......he is the sweetest, quiet, mannered little thing......his teachers adore him. Once again, you must remember he's in a Montessori environment where he's taught to make choices about his activities for the day, etc. That's why I don't think the Montessori environment is meant for him....when given a choice, he will play rather than do something constructive or academic.........isn't that the nature of the beast, LOL. I would much rather do something fun, and avoid my chores, too!!

He's been taught at home to be respectful and compliant........I have 5 kids, and if I didn't have "order" around here, my home would be a mad-house!! And I don't make excuses for him either. I expect my kids to take responsibility for their actions, and accept the consequences of them. They know what's expected of them. But, I must say, I am a bit concerned about this dS right now. He's not himself. He's got some physical complaints, like headaches, etc. that I need to look into. His teacher says he's tired and has no stamina to complete things at school....he lays his head on his desk. He gets up in the morning and says he doesn't feel good. He lays on the couch most of the day, and when I take him outside for a walk, or we go to the store , he begs to go home because he's tired. These things aren't normal for him, or for any healthy active 4 yr old. He had developed an ocular tic last fall, and we took him to a neuro who did an EEG to rule out seizures, but it came back ok. But now all this........sorry it got soo long!! (oh, just wanted to add that we haven't seen the tic since the day he had his EEG done!)

 

[princessmom29]

My DD has 2 7 year olds in her K class, and yes the kids do realize the difference. Those boys are sooo bored and are behavior problems as a result. Thier moms "didn't think they were ready" to start K last year at 5, almost 6 despite the teachers telling them otherwise. I don't think it is always better to be the oldest in the class. My DD is one of the oldest, and I so wish I could have sent her to K last year. She didn't meet the cutoff and was soooo ready. She is bored this year. I was one of the youngest in the class, and it really never mattered. I think it always better to send a child than to hold them back. You always have the option to repeat if they are truly having real problems with the work, but you will never have the opportunity to fix it if you hold them back needlessly.

 

[totallyscrappy]

I completely understand what you mean about whether or not he's ready for kindergarten. I've had students who are totally ready with late August birthdays, and there are others who just don't have the maturity level. You indicated that your son did not want to complete his work and would just sit instead of cooperate? Well, that could be a sign of several things. (1) he's just not understanding - which doesn't seem to be the case; (2) he's determined to do things HIS way or no way at all - which requires certain kind of handling by the teacher ; or (3) this type of work is too low level for him.

As the mother of two gifted children AND a kinder teacher, I worked out a plan with my son's teacher. He had to complete a specified amount of classwork before he was allowed to do the "fun stuff." We just didn't see the point of making my son complete an entire page of single digit addition (in 1st grade) when he was already working on integers for fun. His teacher would circle the numbers of the problems he needed to complete and he couldn't do his independent study until they were done. Worked like a charm!

Now maturity level also means the behavior in the classroom. You've indicated that he is a well-behaved, sweet boy, which makes me think that he IS ready for kindergarten. I've had students who cried multiple times a day, refused to go to the bathrooms on their own, couldn't unzip or take off their own jackets, clung to me all day and so on.....those are kids who probably needed extra time before starting kinder. It really is a case-by-case basis - talk to the teachers and/or the principal. At my public school, we could have prospective students tour and observe the child's behavior. This gave us a clear indication on readiness.

HTH!

Tracy

 

[humboldthny]

I didn't read all the rest of the responses, but I'll give you my 2 cents as a former Kindergarten teacher, daughter of a teacher (my mom taught K, 1 and 2 for 35 years), and mom of a Kinder....

If you're having doubts about sending him, you're having them for a reason....I know plenty of people who regret putting their child in K 'early', but no one who regrets waiting the extra year.

In my experience the youngest ones who come in to Kindergarten uninterested usually don't 'wake up' and get with the game until Feb. or March, and by then there's a lot of catching up to do. There's also emotional and social aspects to consider as well....does he make and maintain friendships well, is he good at negotiating a compromise when he and a friend disagree, can he stay focused and complete tasks without a lot of intervention from the teacher?

Obviously I don't know your child, but I'd tend to agree with you that a Montesorri classroom may not be the best place for your ds. You might want to consider finding a nice Transitional K program...around here they are usually 5 days a week, half days, structured more like a traditional K classroom, but more academic than preschool.

As far as making fun of the older kids...in my experience I've never seen that happen. More typically the older children tend to become the natural leaders in the class. I'm also not a fan of grade skipping (that's never turned out well in my experience - the kids I've seen grade skipped usually derail in jr. high), or holding children back unless there is a very, very clear reason to do so, and certainly not after 1st or 2nd grade...it's way too obvious to their peers if they are held back in 3rd or 4th grade.

My dd was turning 5 two weeks after the cut-off in our district...while I probably could have tested her in based on her academics (she's well ahead of grade level currently) and she probably would have done fine emotionally, I waited a year to put her in because of her social maturity...she's quite social, good at making friends, etc., but not sophisticated and I was concerned about her being the youngest because of that - and since she was a girl I had to consider what she might experience in the upper grades as well; our high schools are 9-12 and I really didn't like the idea of my young 13 y.o. girl in school with 18 and 19 y.o. boys...I'm hoping the one extra year will impart just that much more good judgment.

Oh, and after reading the post directly above, I wanted to say that we've also set up something with dd's teacher similar to what the pp has done - once dd completes her required work (usually enough to show understanding and mastery) she has a work folder of independent activities more suited to her level, or she can read a chapter book at her seat. Our school's AG teacher also put together a reading box that has 'Frog and Toad' stories, non-fic books on frogs and toads, and a set of activity cards for her to work through. There's always ways to meet the needs of kids who are working beyond grade level expectations - but it may take you making a little noise to get it done

Good luck with your decision!

 

[snoopy5386]

I know school has changed a lot in the past 20 years, but I went to kindy as a 4 year old (early October bday) and never had a problem. It never even occured to me that I was one of the youngest in my grade until it was time for me to get my driver's license and most of my friends already had one. I was an honor student, AP classes, etc.

 

[tam626]

My ds will be 5 August 13th & I am sending him to preschool another year. He is ready for kindergarden but it is all day here & he still naps. There is no way he will be ready to be in school all day. His teachers agree that it's best to wait another year. I'm not in any rush for him to grow up.

 

[Familyof4lovesDW]

I waited to send my DS and he will be one of the kids that turns 7 in K (which I felt like a few post had a problem with and it upset me a little). He is a sweet boy, good listener, but has an iep and with talking with the school and the preschool teachers this was the best decision for my child. They can learn more with 12 kids and 2 teachers than 20+ kids and 1 teacher. Luckily he is a smaller boy so he is the same size or smaller than his classmates. Does your school have a program between k & 1st for the ones that are not quite ready? I know some do inour state. In our district, if you child is 5 by sept 30 you have the option, if they turn 6 by sept 30 it is mandatory they go to K. The question I asked myself was how would it effect him later if I had to hold him back. You know him best and I am sure you will make the best decision for your child and do not worry about what others think, which I know is hard.

 

[Britgirlus]

My son is 6, and in 1st grade - he has a June birthday, so started K a couple of months after he turned 5 - I presume he is one of the youngest in his class. I know he IS the smallest (got my genes, poor kid). He hasn't had any problems in school with being one of the youngest (and he goes to 2nd grade for math, so is ALOT younger than the kids there). Do you think your son is bored in preschool, and that's why he doesn't want to do the work ? Or just figures that he doesn't have to, so he just won't ? Sorry - I have't read all the previous replies. If he is capable of the work, then maybe you are right and he does need a change - Montessori doesn't work for all kids, as you said. Could you possibly give Kindergarten a chance - heck, if it doesn't work out, you could always pull him and try again the following year, as a last resort ? Just my 2c

 

[R and C's momma]

I haven't read any of the other replies, but wanted to give my opinion. We have a DS who's birthday is 8/11, and this past fall we faced the same dilemma.

We chose to send him. Our kids go to a Charter school and being in a smaller class size we thought he would do fine. We also spoke to the school in advance and asked them their opinion and they also send to send him. We did not enroll "C" in pre-school any of the years prior.

"C" has progressed fine, but we have made the decision to retain him for another year in Kindergarten. He could go on to 1st grade but we are afraid the little bit he is behind now will catch up with him later and we will regret not giving him one more year to grow.

Looking back I think we should have held off a year. He wasn't due until 8/29, and had he been born 3 days after his due date he would have missed the cut-off.

Personally, having BTDT, I would wait a year. Although I have to say repeating Kindergarten is much like getting a year of preschool - so you have to go with what your gut tells you.

Good luck in your decision!

 

[Suellen]

I wanted to add this:

We went to register DD today and there was two options:

All Day Kindy or SOS I & II

The SOS is basically a two year Kindy. I don't think my DD needs so I didn't read a lot about it BUT I wonder if you can sign this up and then skip the second year if it seems like they really don't need it.

Also not sure if they offer this kind of program everywhere.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I just have to say two things that annoy me that I have seen on this thread. I find it rude the people who say "I am in no rush for our child to grow up" and the others who say "I am giving my child the gift of time."

I don't think anyone is rushing their kids growing up. I bet if you took a poll nobody wants their kids to rush through childhood. Just because you send your kids on time to school because that is truly what is best for them and you don't keep them home because you don't want them to grow up (not saying all people do this) doesn't make you a parent who is kicking them out the door. It is insulting to insinuate that.
The whole gift of time thing imo is of the same vein. Unless the kid truly isn't ready what exactly is the gift? Just because as a parent you (a general you) don't want to send your kid to school because you will miss them (and we all miss them) doesn't make it some special gift. I think keeping your child back just because you will miss them is selfish. Again- not saying all parents do this but there are some out there.

Sorry to go OT but I just really find those two things to be so condescending.

 

[Suellen]

I think my DD(4) would pack her bags and move away if I kept her home from Kindy.

I am sure not all LO's are like that ~ I really, really, really wish they would make a firm decision on this and make it the law to send them if they are a certain age by a certain date ~ if they have to do a second year of Kindy ~ then that works too.

I hated thinking that I would take the fate of my child's school years into my hands by ME deciding. Turned out it isn't an issue for me... but it clearly is for some.

I think we are all worried about making the *wrong* choice. Whatever it may be.

 

[Mkrop]

Also realize that as being one of the oldest they will also be the first to drive, the first to turn 18 and think they are an adult and the first to turn 21 amongst their peers.

There are pros and cons to bein the oldest and the youngest.

And if they do play sports many times (not in all leagues) they can not play with their classmates. I know our Little League is very strict on age and many of the older kids in my DS12's grade can not play with their classmates.

 

[princessmom29]

My ds will be 5 August 13th & I am sending him to preschool another year. He is ready for kindergarden but it is all day here & he still naps. There is no way he will be ready to be in school all day. His teachers agree that it's best to wait another year. I'm not in any rush for him to grow up.

I had a child that still napped when she went to K it took her, and the others in her class who were used to a nap about 2 weeks to adjust. If that is your only reason for holding him back, I wouldn't do it simply based on that.

I just have to say two things that annoy me that I have seen on this thread. I find it rude the people who say "I am in no rush for our child to grow up" and the others who say "I am giving my child the gift of time."

I don't think anyone is rushing their kids growing up. I bet if you took a poll nobody wants their kids to rush through childhood. Just because you send your kids on time to school because that is truly what is best for them and you don't keep them home because you don't want them to grow up (not saying all people do this) doesn't make you a parent who is kicking them out the door. It is insulting to insinuate that.
The whole gift of time thing imo is of the same vein. Unless the kid truly isn't ready what exactly is the gift? Just because as a parent you (a general you) don't want to send your kid to school because you will miss them (and we all miss them) doesn't make it some special gift. I think keeping your child back just because you will miss them is selfish. Again- not saying all parents do this but there are some out there.

Sorry to go OT but I just really find those two things to be so condescending.

I am gald someone else feels the way I do. I am not in a hurry for my child to grow up, but I want her to get every learing experience she can, and while I would love for her to stay little forever holding her back form progressing with her age peers in not in her best interests. I do not appreciate the implication that this makes me somehow a less caring parent. I am with you in that I think the whole "gift of time" bit is often a justification for the parent keeping thier baby another year because that is what they want, not because it is what the child needs. You are right, some people honestly buy into it, but for a air number it is a justification for selfishness.