OT-Autism and Discipline

[Disneylvr]

I considered myself lucky because Madelyn didn't have the long uncontrolable tantrums often associated with autism. Unfortunately that has changed since she began school. When I or her teacher tries to correct her (sitting forward at the table, using her fork instead of hand...) she becomes very upset and will, for example, throw her plate and everything within reach off the table. I make her look into my eyes and tell her "NO" which then makes her scream and cry and look for something else to throw in the floor. I also do hand over hand and make her pick up the plate and other objects but it is followed by lengthy meltdown sometimes and a repeat of the behavior at the next activity. Am I doing the right thing? Any other suggestions of how I could correct this behavior? I am also sending a note to her OT at school to ask her suggestions.

 

[XYSRUS]

My 2 cents. I think that making/helping her do the right thing(picking up what she's thrown) is good. I never make an autistic look me in the eye. I know people who advocate teaching this but I think this behavior is for everyone else, not the autistic kid. If they can hear and are able to process mentally, they hear you and understand you. Eye contact make them extremely nervous. As far as discipline, that is difficult. My son seems to have to trouble learning on the end of a situation-meaning if he gets in trouble pushing his brother, he has problems appling that to the next time he's angry and wants to push his brother. It is an ongoing thing to work on. Plus, I think going to school is a hard transition vs being at home where everyone has adjusted to their behavior either consciously or unconsciously. Autistics are effective at avoidance behavior too. If they misbehave/refuse to do work, most kids get to sit in for recess or go to the principal's office. Our kids like to be alone. This is a treat for them. I do let my son have 5 or 10 mins. to compose himself-at home or in school-then he must get back to what must be done ie. cleaning the house, doing math problems, joining circle time...whatever. I do find as he gets older he gets better...not great, but better. Good luck and enjoy your little one.

 

[Earstou]

My experience with my ds has been that if it is an actual meltdown, he needs time to get over it before I can do anything with him. Just last night he had a big meltdown over homework. He finally threw himself on the diningroom floor and fell asleep for about 20 minutes. When he woke up, he was his old self again, and asked us why he was on the diningroom floor.

When he was younger, I would remove him from the situation and give him time to calm down. Often I could remove him soon enough that it didn't evolve into a total meltdown. After he was calmed down, we would discuss the problem at length, with me telling him over and over what behavior was expected of him.
Preparing them beforehand is often needed, too. Such as going over the rules before school or an activity that presents problems, so they know what is expected of them
He had learned "yes" and "no" in sign language at preschool, and after he taught them to me, I could use the "no" sign at times instead of saying "no". For some reason, this worked really well with him, but it may have been because HE taught it to me.
Good luck! These kids are all so different, so what works for one may not work for another. Hope you find your solution soon!

 

[Disneylvr]

The only reason I look Madelyn in eyes and say NO is because she looks me right in the eyes when she throws things off the table. In this respect she behaves like a typical 3 year old however she doesn't respond to "time out" like a typical child might as a form of discipline. My MIL seems to think smacking her hand is the correct punishment but I disagree. When she throws the plate off perhaps I should remove her from the table for awhile and then go back and try eating (or whatever the task is) after a few moments?

 

[minkydog]

The only reason I look Madelyn in eyes and say NO is because she looks me right in the eyes when she throws things off the table. In this respect she behaves like a typical 3 year old however she doesn't respond to "time out" like a typical child might as a form of discipline. My MIL seems to think smacking her hand is the correct punishment but I disagree. When she throws the plate off perhaps I should remove her from the table for awhile and then go back and try eating (or whatever the task is) after a few moments?

I agree with your approach. If she's looking you in the eye, it's a challenge--she knows she's doing something wrong and she's waiting to see what you're gonna do about it. Christian does this too. Even though he is very mentally handicapped, he understands as well as a 2yo what acceptable table behavior is. I wouldn't allow a normal 2yo to scream or throw dishes, and I'm not going to put up with it just because he's autistic. We take him away from the table if he's having trouble re-gaining control and one of us stays with him so he can't just withdraw.

Recently Christian has discovered the full-on temper tantrum. Except he has a hard time getting from standing to prone, so it takes a few minutes with lots of grunting and straining to finally get to the floor, by which time he sometimes forgets why he's there, so he just lays on the floor and hoots or sings loudly. Sometimes it's just too much trouble, so he gets on his hands & knees and just lays his head on the floor .

 

[kdtwiss]

SINCE IT HAS BEGUN SINCE SCHOOL - i WOULD LOOK TO THE CLASSROOM AS EITHER THE PROBLEM OR THE TRIGGER. yOUR DD HAS EITHER SEEN?copied this behavior at school or has developed it as a response to what she considers unacceptable behavior on the part of her teachers. I would try to observe the class if possible w/o her knowing to see if you can put your finger on the problem. You may see her directly copying another child, or you may recognize a less than friendly tone of voice in a teacher or aid. Our kids see/recognize and copy "bad" behavior just as much as the rest of the "typical" kids. "bad" behavior is soooo much more noticeable than your average every day good manners.
If your dd responds well to praise (some kids don't) I would praise her as soon as she sits down with her plate for more than 5 seconds.
"Wow - what nice sitting Madelyn, you are doing such a super job!"
then gradually (if she responds to praise) lenghthen the amount of time it takes for her to get that praise.
As far as saying "no" - for years NO was a 4 letter word of the WORST kind for my ds. He just did not respond well to it at all, either by crying or screaming NO NO NO right back at me.I look at it differently than most however - I don't think he was being defiant - I just think no was just such an absolute to him, and gave him no choice about making the right decision, or any other way to approach the issue at hand. If it were me - instead of saying no, I would take her hands gently, look her in the eyes and just say - "we don't do that Madelyn - it is not nice (or whatever word fits , safe,clean etc.) Now let's pick this up - I know we can do better.
I always felt the we thing was better than you, I feel it helped my ds know I was there to help him.
If that helps her at all - you can ask the teachers to try the same tactic at school.
Good luck!

 

[hookedup]

My 2 cents - are there some sort of calming activities and rewards that you can integrate into this? It could be that all of the stimulation, structure and changes in routine that have happened with starting school are contributing to the meltdowns and her level of tolarance.

What sort of calming activities does she respond to? Maybe there is a way you could work some rewards and positive feedback along with calmers to keep her engaged and yet help her tolerance level come down a bit.

Good luck and hugs to you and her!

 

[scojos]

my 2 cents...
i can see it from both sides as i am a high school teacher and a mother to a 6yr old with aspergers...
praise is very good, rewards for behaving well are a great motivor, josh loves hama beads (do you have those in the US?) he sits and does his beads and we aquire stars when he has enough he can order a new set.. I would say I contact is very hard with ASO children, we are taught at school not to make eye contact, its too invasive. Ignoring negative behavour during meltdown and then explaining calmly why it is not good works with josh if its safe, if not onto the stairs for time out time..
as a point, we often found meal times hard with josh, he d mis behave or just not eat, spoke to our senco at work, and he advised giving each food item individually, so now josh eats his carrots, then his potatoes then his meat or whatver. its a really stupid tip which works for us, he is getting better now, he even ate pot roast last week which was a huge achievement.
i can only say dont listen to mil, you know your child best, dont smack at all if you can avoid it, keep smacks for really important things were the child could be in danger, otherwise, the punishment will not have an effect.
hope this helps
tracy
oh yes, really do go and observe a lesson. be aware that things will be different because you are there, as a teacher you can t help reacting differently when someone else is in the room, but at least it may show you another side to her day that you dont normally see, and dont forget a large part of her daily routine occurs when you aren t there....

 

[Disneylvr]

If your dd responds well to praise (some kids don't) I would praise her as soon as she sits down with her plate for more than 5 seconds.
"Wow - what nice sitting Madelyn, you are doing such a super job!"
then gradually (if she responds to praise) lenghthen the amount of time it takes for her to get that praise.

She absolutely loves it when we clap for her. Perhaps if she follows directions we give her a round of applause? She will actually look at each member in the room and wait for them to clap.

 

[Disneylvr]

My 2 cents - are there some sort of calming activities and rewards that you can integrate into this? It could be that all of the stimulation, structure and changes in routine that have happened with starting school are contributing to the meltdowns and her level of tolarance.

What sort of calming activities does she respond to? Maybe there is a way you could work some rewards and positive feedback along with calmers to keep her engaged and yet help her tolerance level come down a bit.

Good luck and hugs to you and her!

Madelyn loves for us to sing to her. She also likes deep pressure touch as opposed to light touch. We ocassionally use a weighted blanket to calm her and get her to focus on an activity. I do plan to observe at school. Yesterday the teacher send home a bunch of photos of her in various activities at school; art, library, gym....

 

[fakereadhed]

I went to an autism workshop and learned the best tip. Behavior is communication. She sounds like she was frustrated and was trying to communicate something to you. What was she trying to tell you when she threw the plate? Once you figure that out, you could help her communicate what she wants in a more appropriate way, like an "I need a break" card she could point to. The speaker also suggested that when they ask for a break, you say OK you can have a break after you do(one more simple task) so they don't use it to opt out of everything. HTH!

 

[msgrimm23]

there is a program where you do accepting no which is no you cant do a but you can do b. there is over correction and extention bursts. you could have the child keep pick up the item of the floor or have the child keep throwing things on the floor that is some things the behavioral anaylist has showed me. look at dr carbone's stuff about verbal behavior it might help out