odd dinner with 12 year old

[justmestace]

I had to post on this thread...last night my DH, DS7, and I went to a dinner/auction with tickets given to us by a neighbor. A lady and her son, also 7 asked to join us. Then she proceeded to hit the bar for several drinks and wander around talking on her phone. For 2 hours. She never returned to the table. Her son got his own food. My husband cut up his chicken for him. And we had to redirect his behavior several times, as he kept grabbing at our belongings, throwing pieces of bread around, etc. for 2 hours. It was insane. I know not on a Disney Cruise, but it totally reminded me of this thread.

You deserve an award. I would have put up with that for maybe a total of 30 minutes before I went to the mother and told her to either come take care of her kid, or take him home.

 

[justmestace]

We see kids eating in the MDR's alone on cruises all the time. Not just DCL, but all that we've been on. It's not an unusual thing. And if the kids are well-behaved, I've not noticed a problem with it.

But what I find interesting is that I don't recall ever going to a restaurant anywhere else and seeing kids eating alone....so I guess my question is, why do parents feel comfortable doing it on a ship, but not any place else?
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm indifferent to it, as long as they aren't disruptive.....but it's just interesting to me, the things people allow their kids to do on cruises, that they most likely ( I hope!) wouldn't allow them to do at home or elsewhere.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

We see kids eating in the MDR's alone on cruises all the time. Not just DCL, but all that we've been on. It's not an unusual thing. And if the kids are well-behaved, I've not noticed a problem with it.

But what I find interesting is that I don't recall ever going to a restaurant anywhere else and seeing kids eating alone....so I guess my question is, why do parents feel comfortable doing it on a ship, but not any place else?
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm indifferent to it, as long as they aren't disruptive.....but it's just interesting to me, the things people allow their kids to do on cruises, that they most likely ( I hope!) wouldn't allow them to do at home or elsewhere.

I think it's the false sense of security being on a ship has. Especially on a Disney ship. After all, what can happen, we're all good people, aren't we? And no one can get away on a ship, so they won't do anything wrong.

 

[bella2396]

I know the servers encourage the kids to come to dining room without the parents if the parents are going to Palo and I can understand siblings going together to dine...but a boy alone eating with strangers is just odd to me. I also feel for the OP that felt they had to "babysit". I know I would feel the same way...I would feel responsible for the child...to make sure he was enjoying himself. Just odd all around to me.

MJ

Yea, I'm just surprised that DCL thinks its ok to offer one person a good night out at the expensive of another.

 

[quarkwright]

We see kids eating in the MDR's alone on cruises all the time. Not just DCL, but all that we've been on. It's not an unusual thing. And if the kids are well-behaved, I've not noticed a problem with it.

But what I find interesting is that I don't recall ever going to a restaurant anywhere else and seeing kids eating alone....so I guess my question is, why do parents feel comfortable doing it on a ship, but not any place else?
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm indifferent to it, as long as they aren't disruptive.....but it's just interesting to me, the things people allow their kids to do on cruises, that they most likely ( I hope!) wouldn't allow them to do at home or elsewhere.

I do think there are a couple of differences between doing this on a cruise and doing this in a restaurant on land... Without making a judgement of whether doing so is 'right' or 'wrong'.

- On a cruise, the meal is already paid for. So if there is a circumstance that requires the parent to be elsewhere, it might seem to make sense for an older child to eat there. I can't think of many situations on land that would be comparable.

- "Vacation mentality". If you are on a vacation to relax, you may take the option that seems to be least stressful, without over-thinking it. (Yes, many people will have different opinions on this. I'm just saying some people go with this option.)

- In terms of safety, yes the ship is the size of a small city, and is full of total strangers who may all be convicted felons for all that we know. But it is a contained environment, and the dining room is a public setting with plenty of witnesses. It seems to me that it would be more difficult for anyone to commit a major crime and expect to escape punishment. It at least appears safer than dropping a 12yo off at a restaurant in the closest metropolitan center.

 

[cruisecrasher]

I'd like to add the parents have already met the servers at least once.

 

[n8nally]

I think it's the false sense of security being on a ship has. Especially on a Disney ship. After all, what can happen, we're all good people, aren't we? And no one can get away on a ship, so they won't do anything wrong.

See, now I don't think it's this at all.

As a Mom, when I think of going out somewhere without my children for an adult evening at a restaurant, etc. I figure I will just leave my kids (DS15 and DD12) at home. I will either cook dinner for them or have them make themselves dinner (frozen pizza, warm up leftovers, whatever). They no longer need a babysitter as they are both old enough (and mature, responsible) to be left home without me.

But I would never send them out with money to a restaurant of their own while I dined at a different restaurant by myself. Not because I was worried about safety, but because logistically, it's dumb. They don't drive yet, so I'd have to drop them off and pick them up. Plus, there is free food at home, why would I pay for a restaurant for them?

On the cruise ship, there is no "home" with a kitchen and frozen pizza. So, in my mind here are my options: order room service and stay in the room, or go to the tween/teen clubs. But if going to the clubs is the choice, where would they eat? I guess counter service would work, but they are still dining without a parent that way. I suppose to some families another option is go to the MDR and then walk yourself to the room or the club.

What I'm saying is that I think it's more a logistical thing why people don't just send their kids to a restaurant without a parent when on dry land, as opposed to on a cruise, and not so much a safety issue, or a feeling of being safer on the ship. (This is a response to justmestace's question)

I think there are dangers anywhere on the cruise, as in our every day lives. I think children need to be taught about them as a part of growing up and gaining independance. Ship or no ship.

As for me and my kids on our 9/1 cruise (our first), I did not book Palo or Remy. I'm a single Mom and am viewing this as a family vacation where we spend time together, dinner especially. Maybe on the next cruise........

 

[seashellmama]

My kids are slightly younger than 12 (11 and 8), but we have stayed in hotels where they had a fair amount of free-range (at conferences with lots of other kids; really not that unlike a Disney Cruise in some ways, I imagine). They haven't gone into a sit-down restaurant for a meal by themselves at hotels yet, but I can imagine that, easily, as soon as next year (at 12 and 9... the younger is more independent and brave, and the older is more responsible- they make a good team taking care of each other), especially when they can charge the meal to the room. This thread actually has me thinking of suggesting MDR on their own once for our trip in September! We probably won't, since I don't really want to eat anywhere else for dinner and certainly I enjoy the company of my children, but it would be an opportunity for them to feel pretty responsible. Perhaps they can go together for a table service lunch.

 

[clairedy6]

In light of everything that has come out about the poor 11 year old being molested by a server in the elevator, I think it is ironic, that so many people have said on this post, that the servers encouraged them to leave their child or children alone in the mdr's.

Was that on DCL?

 

[MAYNARDS99]

Yes, a bit odd, but I can remember being about ten or eleven and riding my bike to the Rustler by myself for dinner. You would go thru a cafeteria line and select sides and order a steak, be given a table number, and the food was delivered to your table.

Hopefully the young person enjoyed dining with his table mates, or had an iPad or book to keep themselves occupied between courses.

I've enjoyed many fine dining experiences by myself on land and sea. I enjoy chatting with my servers and chefs.

 

[wwwosie]

Yea, I'm just surprised that DCL thinks its ok to offer one person a good night out at the expensive of another.

This isn't necessarily true. A lot of kids are well behaved and polite. As long as they mind their manners and engage in conversation, I don't see a problem with it.

 

[Justacruiser]

We went on a four night Dream cruise last month and I was a little shocked that two of the four nights, we had a 12 year old boy eat at our table alone. His mother and him were on the cruise together and did not come with anyone. He said each night that she was doing the adult dining, so she was having dinner alone and her son was having dinner with us, complete strangers. Do you think this is odd or is this normal?

The issue I have with this is that the mother didn't discuss her plans with the couple first. The story goes she is having fun and he was to eat with them. How about if they would have gone to Palo? The mom probably didn't address it because it would have been a potential black eye to her. Otherwise she would have come out the first night and said hey, this is my plan. Do you mind? I think it is inconsiderate to the couple.

I know, a mother traveling alone is entitled to her own time and space. Betcha she does the same to her family and friends at home. And by the way, I if you want me to watch your 12 year old while you eat somewhere else, just ask. Don't expect.

 

[seashellmama]

The issue I have with this is that the mother didn't discuss her plans with the couple first. The story goes she is having fun and he was to eat with them. How about if they would have gone to Palo?

[...]

And by the way, I if you want me to watch your 12 year old while you eat somewhere else, just ask. Don't expect.

I think the disconnect here is that the question of whether a 12 year old needs "watching" is an open one, and with no absolute answer.

In my mind, the 12 year old eating without his or her parent in the MDR is doing just that: eating in the main dining room. That the 12 year old is seated at a table with table mates is irrelevant- he's on his own just as a 24 year old would be. If the table mates ate somewhere different any or all nights, nothing at all would have changed for the 12 year old, he'd have just had his meal (and nobody would have posted about the odd dining experience of eating with a young stranger).

I'm not even sure where the age line gets crossed in my mind. I know for sure that sitting with an unaccompanied 1 year old would be startling, and a problem, but that doing so with a 12 year old isn't. A 2 year old? problem. 3? Actually, I've met some very composed and competent 3 year olds- one who is very familiar with ship life might well do better than I'm going to do at first, but mostly a 3 year old alone would qualify as odd-and-wrong, not just odd. I am comfortable imagining my own 8 year old dining with her 11 year old sister, but know other 8 year olds (including my own, when she was 8) where that wouldn't work out.

So basically, I have to say I must leave it to the parent and child's discretion, and would feel exactly the same responsibility for an unaccompanied child sitting at my table as I would for any other human- I will talk, I will pass the salt, I will perform life-saving first aid if necessary, I will ask questions about things I don't know and will answer questions about things I do know, I will help get the server's attention if my table mate seems to have difficulty with that task or visibly needs help. I won't stop them from getting up before they've cleaned their plate, and I will cast "stop that" looks at them if they get weird and loud or drunk or start talking about real estate or life insurance.

 

[Justacruiser]

I think the disconnect here is that the question of whether a 12 year old needs "watching" is an open one, and with no absolute answer.

In my mind, the 12 year old eating without his or her parent in the MDR is doing just that: eating in the main dining room. That the 12 year old is seated at a table with table mates is irrelevant- he's on his own just as a 24 year old would be. If the table mates ate somewhere different any or all nights, nothing at all would have changed for the 12 year old, he'd have just had his meal (and nobody would have posted about the odd dining experience of eating with a young stranger).

I'm not even sure where the age line gets crossed in my mind. I know for sure that sitting with an unaccompanied 1 year old would be startling, and a problem, but that doing so with a 12 year old isn't. A 2 year old? problem. 3? Actually, I've met some very composed and competent 3 year olds- one who is very familiar with ship life might well do better than I'm going to do at first, but mostly a 3 year old alone would qualify as odd-and-wrong, not just odd. I am comfortable imagining my own 8 year old dining with her 11 year old sister, but know other 8 year olds (including my own, when she was 8) where that wouldn't work out.

So basically, I have to say I must leave it to the parent and child's discretion, and would feel exactly the same responsibility for an unaccompanied child sitting at my table as I would for any other human- I will talk, I will pass the salt, I will perform life-saving first aid if necessary, I will ask questions about things I don't know and will answer questions about things I do know, I will help get the server's attention if my table mate seems to have difficulty with that task or visibly needs help. I won't stop them from getting up before they've cleaned their plate, and I will cast "stop that" looks at them if they get weird and loud or drunk or start talking about real estate or life insurance.

so, yes you are being expected to watch over a 12 year eating his dinner. And you are fine with that, however I would appreciate a conversation up front. I and my wife would do the same responsible thing you said that you would do. But where is the parent accountability in this? He is not dining alone, he is not ordering room service. He is told or is volunteering to dine with you, and apprently with no say from you. Would it make a difference the it was a 12 year old girl instread?

Would I let my 12-year old DD go to the kids club alone? YES
Would I let my DD go to a DCL movie by herself? YES
Would I let her go to the gift shop by herself? YES
Expect her to go sit with adults I met once and eat dinner with them while I go to Palo? NO


It's not the maturity of a 12-year old, it is the rest of the world and the belief that some have the DCL is paradise and nothing can happen to a kid. Sorry, but I never took the risk when my DD was that age, not so many years ago.

just giving my opinion folks.

 

[seashellmama]

so, yes you are being expected to watch over a 12 year eating his dinner. And you are fine with that, however I would appreciate a conversation up front. I and my wife would do the same responsible thing you said that you would do. But where is the parent accountability in this? He is not dining alone, he is not ordering room service. He is told or is volunteering to dine with you, and apprently with no say from you. Would it make a difference the it was a 12 year old girl instread?

Hm. I feel misunderstood. What I described is how I would treat any table mate, young or old. I don't consider myself to be "watching" adults when I am aware of their unmet needs (I've signalled to waiters at restaurants when I realized that someone at another table had been trying and failing to get their attention) or ready to perform life-saving aid. I would not, in general, read a menu to a stranger at my table (though I might), or make sure they are ordering a well-balanced meal or guide them toward good or interesting food choices (as I might for my own children). Likewise, I would not feel that my role, sitting at a community table with a child not in my party, is that of babysitter or watcher.

As I said before, I really think the disagreement here is about what age is OK. For you, 12 (and especially a girl) is too young. 15? 18? 23? Never? For me, I feel that gently increased responsibility is the most reasonable way to move from the dependency of infancy to the necessary independence that comes with being an adult, and certainly by age 12, for most typical kids, eating alone (with or without table mates) in the main dining room on a cruise ship falls under "yes" on the scale of developmental appropriateness, regardless of the person's apparent or actual gender.

 

[Justacruiser]

Hm. I feel misunderstood. What I described is how I would treat any table mate, young or old. I don't consider myself to be "watching" adults when I am aware of their unmet needs (I've signalled to waiters at restaurants when I realized that someone at another table had been trying and failing to get their attention) or ready to perform life-saving aid. I would not, in general, read a menu to a stranger at my table (though I might), or make sure they are ordering a well-balanced meal or guide them toward good or interesting food choices (as I might for my own children). Likewise, I would not feel that my role, sitting at a community table with a child not in my party, is that of babysitter or watcher.

As I said before, I really think the disagreement here is about what age is OK. For you, 12 (and especially a girl) is too young. 15? 18? 23? Never? For me, I feel that gently increased responsibility is the most reasonable way to move from the dependency of infancy to the necessary independence that comes with being an adult, and certainly by age 12, for most typical kids, eating alone (with or without table mates) in the main dining room on a cruise ship falls under "yes" on the scale of developmental appropriateness, regardless of the person's apparent or actual gender.

ok

 

[seashellmama]

Would I let my 12-year old DD go to the kids club alone? YES
Would I let my DD go to a DCL movie by herself? YES
Would I let her go to the gift shop by herself? YES
Expect her to go sit with adults I met once and eat dinner with them while I go to Palo? NO

I'm curious what you mean by each of these- are you walking her to the kids club or gift shop, or is she making her way to those places on her own? Why is a movie (dark, loud, perhaps intimate with seats close together) ok, but eating in a lighted, public dining room dangerous? If I felt uncomfortable about the MDR, my answers to each of these would be "YES (with me dropping her off and her not having self sign-out privileges", "NO", "YES (if I'm nearby)", and, of course, "NO."

In fact I am expecting both of my kids to have run-of-the-ship while regularly checking in with me. My 11yo will, she hopes, have access to both the kids club and the tween Edge, my 8yo will likely have self sign-out at the kids club. I am hoping they'll stick together, but know that more likely they'll hook up with separate friends. I would prefer they not go into the movie theather completely alone. Neither will have charging privileges on her KTTW. We're all planning to eat in the MDR all four nights, so the question of their eating alone for dinner likely won't come up, but it would definitely be OK with me.

 

[carissa1970]

I'm curious what you mean by each of these- are you walking her to the kids club or gift shop, or is she making her way to those places on her own? Why is a movie (dark, loud, perhaps intimate with seats close together) ok, but eating in a lighted, public dining room dangerous? If I felt uncomfortable about the MDR, my answers to each of these would be "YES (with me dropping her off and her not having self sign-out privileges", "NO", "YES (if I'm nearby)", and, of course, "NO."

In fact I am expecting both of my kids to have run-of-the-ship while regularly checking in with me. My 11yo will, she hopes, have access to both the kids club and the tween Edge, my 8yo will likely have self sign-out at the kids club. I am hoping they'll stick together, but know that more likely they'll hook up with separate friends. I would prefer they not go into the movie theather completely alone. Neither will have charging privileges on her KTTW. We're all planning to eat in the MDR all four nights, so the question of their eating alone for dinner likely won't come up, but it would definitely be OK with me.

This is off-topic, and I apologize, but at what age can a child sign themselves out of the clubs? I see you said your 8yo will be able to do that. Thanks, and sorry for going OT.

 

[seashellmama]

This is off-topic, and I apologize, but at what age can a child sign themselves out of the clubs? I see you said your 8yo will be able to do that. Thanks, and sorry for going OT.

My understanding is that 8-12 year olds can (with parental permission) be allowed to sign themselves out.

 

[Justacruiser]

I'm curious what you mean by each of these- are you walking her to the kids club or gift shop, or is she making her way to those places on her own? Why is a movie (dark, loud, perhaps intimate with seats close together) ok, but eating in a lighted, public dining room dangerous? If I felt uncomfortable about the MDR, my answers to each of these would be "YES (with me dropping her off and her not having self sign-out privileges", "NO", "YES (if I'm nearby)", and, of course, "NO."

In fact I am expecting both of my kids to have run-of-the-ship while regularly checking in with me. My 11yo will, she hopes, have access to both the kids club and the tween Edge, my 8yo will likely have self sign-out at the kids club. I am hoping they'll stick together, but know that more likely they'll hook up with separate friends. I would prefer they not go into the movie theather completely alone. Neither will have charging privileges on her KTTW. We're all planning to eat in the MDR all four nights, so the question of their eating alone for dinner likely won't come up, but it would definitely be OK with me.

Simply put, I trust any 12-year old by himself or herself. I know plenty are mature in age. And, I would trust them in most open environments like the kids area, movie or just grabbing a coke up on deck. But I feel that having my child sit with people that I have met for one night, without asking their permission to leave my daughter there would simply be rude. You might leave your kids but you would have have talked to me the night before, right? If you would have talked to my wife and I first, that is my point! And, if you would have asked me (justacruiser) I would have gladly watched your kids, and even mde sure they ate all their vegtables before desert, if you wanted. lol

great conversation seashellmama!