Non-resort guests can not reserve FP+ early

[ArwenMarie]

This makes an assumption that Disney can increase their occupancy rates faster than off-site guests are cancelling their trips. It's not like WDW has been floundering at 50 or 60% occupancy rates. Disney is "capped" with how many off-site guests they can transition to on-site. In the busy season, Disney might only have about 5% occupancy to play with. It seems like there is not an insignificant risk, during these periods, for more off-site people to stop visiting than Disney could possibly absorb.

Disney will hope that people will rebook their off-site July trip to on-site in January, but that ignores that many people are limited by their children's and their own vacation time, many people simply can't move their travel dates. So the potential remains for a lot of simply cancelled off-site visits.

The things we need to know:

Ratio of on-site to off-site guests
Unused hotel capacity available at WDW
Percentage of guests "aware" of the changing conditions and are at risk of changing travel plans
Repeat vs First time guests

If most off-site people aren't aware of the difficulties in securing a seat on a popular ride until after their vacation has started, there is no potential loss of a cancellation. If most people aren't repeat guests than the potential loss of upset people never returning is small; they were never coming back anyway. But in an age where social media is ever growing, I would start to think that all the "so why won't you go back to WDW?" answers would start to build up to the point where they do start to affect the bookings of First time guests.

People say it's 50/50 onsite/offsite in the parks.

But the other number you need is how much profit per-day-per-guest the average onsite customer generates for Disney versus offsite.

Disney doesn't want more people in its parks, they want more people in their hotels. They are in the hotel business, the parks are just a way to fill up rooms and restaurants.

 

[snorkelyn]

People say it's 50/50 onsite/offsite in the parks.

But the other number you need is how much profit per-day-per-guest the average onsite customer generates for Disney versus offsite.

And I'm sure Disney has a snapshot of that, since most onsite guests pay with their KTTW card (or now, magic band).

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

So all those that feel it is just fine to shut off-site guest from FP+s until they enter the park, using up valuable park time, even though we spend the same for park tickets should be fine if Disney started letting those that stay in deluxe resorts pre book at 60 days, mods at 45 days and value at 30 days even though you pay the exact same price for your park ticket as those staying in the deluxe resort. Deluxe resort guest spend the most on their rooms.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

People say it's 50/50 onsite/offsite in the parks.

But the other number you need is how much profit per-day-per-guest the average onsite customer generates for Disney versus offsite.

But also, how much of that profit for the on-site guest is going to run the resort and how much of their park ticket profit is going into the parks? You may find that off-site guests contribute just a much profit from their park ticket as on-site guest do from their park ticket. If staying on-site didn't have enough value before this new system then why did people stay there??

 

[ArwenMarie]

But also, how much of that profit for the on-site guest is going to run the resort and how much of their park ticket profit is going into the parks? You may find that off-site guests contribute just a much profit from their park ticket as on-site guest do from their park ticket. If staying on-site didn't have enough value before this new system then why did people stay there??

The parks and resorts are all one company.

The rooms are built now. They want them filled, that equals more profit. If they can use the parks to do that, it makes sense that they will.

 

[Circus181920]

I am so disappointed! I am very sad that Disney is limiting advanced booking of FP+ for onsite guests. But, what is even more depressing for me is the fact that you can only get 3 FP+ PER DAY! 3 fp's is totally insufficient! I wont be able to ride nearly as many rides as I did with legacy fp! As much as I love wdw, I am giving up my AP & not going back for a long time!!! I will be taking my business to Universal until the mouse gets his act together. I am not happy that I have to pay for Express at Uni, but at least I will get to ride to my heart's content!

 

[practicallyperfect77]

But also, how much of that profit for the on-site guest is going to run the resort and how much of their park ticket profit is going into the parks? You may find that off-site guests contribute just a much profit from their park ticket as on-site guest do from their park ticket. If staying on-site didn't have enough value before this new system then why did people stay there??

I think I get what you mean. B/c if a room isn't used Mouskeeping doesn't need to clean or do laundry, WDW isn't paying for electricity so there is some saving. I have no clue how to calculate all that stuff though and I'm an accountant! =)

I believe I read the goal of FP+ was to get folks locked into their vacations early so Disney would know how to staff certain areas. I would think allowing offsite tonbook early would help them get tje appropriate data. It doesn't have to be 60 days same as onsite, just a few days early. I can't imagine wasting good short line ride time at RD standing in a darn kiosk line.

 

[Honest John]

So all those that feel it is just fine to shut off-site guest from FP+s until they enter the park, using up valuable park time, even though we spend the same for park tickets should be fine if Disney started letting those that stay in deluxe resorts pre book at 60 days, mods at 45 days and value at 30 days even though you pay the exact same price for your park ticket as those staying in the deluxe resort. Deluxe resort guest spend the most on their rooms.

Of course that's OK, IMO. I'm quite confident that is eventually in the cards. Or, deluxe guests will get 5 FP+ per day, moderates 4 FP+ per day, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 to 10 years it's even more 'cynical' where FP+'s are dolled out like other reward programs in the travel industry where frequent repeat visitors or people who spend alot get even more out of the resort and the offerings. This doesn't offend me in the least, and I'm not some high-roller.

They can easily track how much people are spending now relative to the past - I'm sure they'll gussy it up in dream/magic/wish vernacular of their marketing speak, but they could very easily come up with some program where every dollar spent on plush/merch/food correlates to 1 'Magic Wish Dream Point' and you can trade in 500 points for a FastPass or something. Possibilities seem endless.

FWIW they do this now, it's just not so explicit and obvious. If a celebrity or high-roller shows up and is willing to pay for it, Disney will give the guest a 'guide' Cast Member that grants them front of the line access all day. People willing to pay for dinner or dessert packages get special access to Fantasmic or the Candlelight Processional or Wishes. The Next Generation project will just allow Disney to data mine everyone, track onsite spend much closer, and streamline the granting of privilege and access.

 

[C & L Shaw]

I am so disappointed! I am very sad that Disney is limiting advanced booking of FP+ for onsite guests. But, what is even more depressing for me is the fact that you can only get 3 FP+ PER DAY! 3 fp's is totally insufficient! I wont be able to ride nearly as many rides as I did with legacy fp! As much as I love wdw, I am giving up my AP & not going back for a long time!!! I will be taking my business to Universal until the mouse gets his act together. I am not happy that I have to pay for Express at Uni, but at least I will get to ride to my heart's content!

I understand your point. I am not saying that as an offsite guest I should get the same treatment. I mean if they said let's allow our onsite guests 10 passes, then fine. What I am saying is that I want the same opportunity to at least plan/reserve accordingly, even if that meant 3 FP+ reservations.

As everyone knows right now if you don't show up and make a mad dash for TTM you may not get a FP, but at least let me know if I should visit on a different day or not at all.

I like the idea of different planning for different resort guests. How many more rooms could they fill if they offered 90 days advance reservations for deluxe resort guests, plus additional FP+ selections. How may of those onsite would cry foul then? It's all ok unless it effects you directly I guess.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I understand your point. I am not saying that as an offsite guest I should get the same treatment. I mean if they said let's allow our onsite guests 10 passes, then fine. What I am saying is that I want the same opportunity to at least plan/reserve accordingly, even if that meant 3 FP+ reservations.

As everyone knows right now if you don't show up and make a mad dash for TTM you may not get a FP, but at least let me know if I should visit on a different day or not at all.

I like the idea of different planning for different resort guests. How many more rooms could they fill if they offered 90 days advance reservations for deluxe resort guests, plus additional FP+ selections. How may of those onsite would cry foul then? It's all ok unless it effects you directly I guess.

Even people who stay onsite shouldn't be excited about this. If this works, and Disney successfully uses FP to increase their occupancy rate...you know what's going to happen...Say bye-bye to room discounts and free dining. Sure, maybe people will get more FPs than offsite but it will be at a price.

Offsite hotels put downward pressure on Disney hotel prices (as crazy as that sounds when you look at rack rates!). Competition is good for consumers, including people who always stay onsite.

(The exception would be DVC who have prepaid their accommodations)

 

[Honest John]

There's still some practical difficulties with off-site guests getting advanced access. How does Disney actually know you'll be in the parks or in the area? I get that a hotel booking isn't a perfect guarantee the guest will go to the parks, but it's pretty good.

Should Disney just let anyone with a ticket go pick FP+ for any day they want? Some are suggesting they should get access '15 days ahead of time' as a compromise to onsite guests getting 60 days to book - 15 days ahead of what, exactly? Disney doesn't know when the offsite guest is arriving.

Remember the Wild West days of ADRs without penalties. That caused some significant problems with the old ADRs and people abusing the system - booking 3 or 4 simultaneous ADRs and getting to decide on a whim which they would use.

How would this be different?

 

[practicallyperfect77]

There's still some practical difficulties with off-site guests getting advanced access. How does Disney actually know you'll be in the parks or in the area? I get that a hotel booking isn't a perfect guarantee the guest will go to the parks, but it's pretty good.

Should Disney just let anyone with a ticket go pick FP+ for any day they want? Some are suggesting they should get access '15 days ahead of time' as a compromise to onsite guests getting 60 days to book - 15 days ahead of what, exactly? Disney doesn't know when the offsite guest is arriving.

Remember the Wild West days of ADRs without penalties. That caused some significant problems with the old ADRs and people abusing the system - booking 3 or 4 simultaneous ADRs and getting to decide on a whim which they would use.

How would this be different?

I *think* this can sorta happen now with AP holders that now have a MB. They are allowed a certain number. Granted they did pay for the pass so it's a little different. I know if I do stay off site I would still have at least 1 ADR. Would think they could link that up some how.

 

[Missyrose]

There's still some practical difficulties with off-site guests getting advanced access. How does Disney actually know you'll be in the parks or in the area? I get that a hotel booking isn't a perfect guarantee the guest will go to the parks, but it's pretty good.

Should Disney just let anyone with a ticket go pick FP+ for any day they want? Some are suggesting they should get access '15 days ahead of time' as a compromise to onsite guests getting 60 days to book - 15 days ahead of what, exactly? Disney doesn't know when the offsite guest is arriving.

Remember the Wild West days of ADRs without penalties. That caused some significant problems with the old ADRs and people abusing the system - booking 3 or 4 simultaneous ADRs and getting to decide on a whim which they would use.

How would this be different?

Actually the ADR model (pre-CC guarantee) could work for FP+ reservations. Offsite guests could make FP+ reservations 30 or 60 days out from each day of their trip and will only be allowed to make FP+ reservations for the number of days on their tickets.

So basically, offsite guests would have to make reservations each morning for 5, 7, 10 days, however long their ticket is.

Onsite guests would retain the ability to make their entire trip's worth of FP+ reservations 60 days out from their arrival date.

 

[maybs607]

What happens if an off site guest has an early ADR at MK, would they have access to the kiosks before the park opens. Anybody knows when the kiosks open? This will be us in a few months so things may change but this way I will be at least one of the first in line at the kiosk?

 

[3happydancers]

I am so disappointed! I am very sad that Disney is limiting advanced booking of FP+ for onsite guests. But, what is even more depressing for me is the fact that you can only get 3 FP+ PER DAY! 3 fp's is totally insufficient! I wont be able to ride nearly as many rides as I did with legacy fp! As much as I love wdw, I am giving up my AP & not going back for a long time!!! I will be taking my business to Universal until the mouse gets his act together. I am not happy that I have to pay for Express at Uni, but at least I will get to ride to my heart's content!

My family feels the same and we are DVC members. Some may view this new fast pass system a "Perk", we find it a "Pain". We use to be able to get multiple passes throughout the day, and as long as a fast pass was available, we could ride the same ride multiple times. Now, Disney has conveniently limited us calling this magic. Now we are being limited to 3 per day in one park. After that, you are stuck on stand by lines. My family does not see the benefit of this. Yes, some are happy they can pre-plan their rides, but still you only get 3. After that then what? If you want to ride an E ticket ride more than once, then you will be doing RD and/or standing in long lines with everyone else.

 

[dayvewc]

Actually the ADR model (pre-CC guarantee) could work for FP+ reservations. Offsite guests could make FP+ reservations 30 or 60 days out from each day of their trip and will only be allowed to make FP+ reservations for the number of days on their tickets.

So basically, offsite guests would have to make reservations each morning for 5, 7, 10 days, however long their ticket is.

Onsite guests would retain the ability to make their entire trip's worth of FP+ reservations 60 days out from their arrival date.

Exactly. Disney doesn't need to know, though they would sure like you to be staying on site, what day your trip starts. They just limit you to booking a ride 60 days from today. (or 45, or 30, or 15 or whatever). Then, you can book again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day for however many days are on your ticket (up to 14 days - maximum amount of time non-expiring tickets are good for). Onsite would have the advantage being able to go online 1 time 60 days before their arrival date and making all of their bookings for the length of stay.

I keep seeing people saying that Disney can't give offsite prebooking privileges because Disney won't know when the guests will be there. Disney doesn't HAVE to know when the trip is planned, the limit is guests just can't book further than 60 days ahead.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

If the 50/50 attendance is true, what kind of nightmare would this be on days with 8 to 9 crowds levels and only 10 to 15 kiosks? Add in the fact that you have to make all 3 reservations at the same time! Besides the bad PR Disney would get from that, imagine all those people talking about what a pain it was on social media, could Disney's IT handle such a thing?

 

[3happydancers]

This only goes for my family (and we normally stay onsite) but, we personally find it a pain to have to "Pre-Book" rides so far out. It's bad enough we have to do this for an ADR in order to eat at ones favorite character meal. But if we don't pre-book then we risk not riding our favorite rides. We never had this problem with the legacy fast pass system. For us, this change changes the way we feel about the World! So for those staying offsite, I can understand their frustration.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

Exactly. Disney doesn't need to know, though they would sure like you to be staying on site, what day your trip starts. They just limit you to booking a ride 60 days from today. (or 45, or 30, or 15 or whatever). Then, you can book again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day for however many days are on your ticket (up to 14 days - maximum amount of time non-expiring tickets are good for). Onsite would have the advantage being able to go online 1 time 60 days before their arrival date and making all of their bookings for the length of stay.

I keep seeing people saying that Disney can't give offsite prebooking privileges because Disney won't know when the guests will be there. Disney doesn't HAVE to know when the trip is planned, the limit is guests just can't book further than 60 days ahead.

And it would be exactly like the paper FPs that were pulled and never used if they don't show up. What I don't get is why the same thing isn't being questioned about AP holders that aren't staying on-site. They could do the same thing and would be much more likely to do it. Or do those that think that off-site guest shouldn't be allowed to pre-book think that AP holders shouldn't be able to pre-book either unless they stay onsite?

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

this change changes the way we feel about the World!

This is true for our family as well. The feeling I have about it is like losing a good friend because they have changed.