New Soarin etiquette please

[Nayan]

I would, but I'd probably be banned. I still say what the OP had to go through was obnoxious behavior and shouldn't have happened, especially by adults.

 

[Moback]

I would, but I'd probably be banned. I still say what the OP had to go through was obnoxious behavior and shouldn't have happened, especially by adults.

Adult is a mental achievement, not a linear achievement. Some people never make it to your expected status. But then again I wouldn't expect some people to understand that. To each their own and have a magical life.

 

[swfmco]

Well we are glad to now know what your rules of "giving a pass" are. When you have a mentally challenged child please come tell us all how those rules apply.

"Special needs" should not be a pass to not try to teach a child the proper ways to behave in public. I understand that sometimes, the severity of the issue may not make this possible, but most cases don't rise to that level. I can't stand how some parents view any diagnosis on the spectrum as their "right" to allow their kid to act in any manner they see fit and that everybody else needs to "deal with it". Then anybody who dares to speak up gets called "insensitive" or that they have no right to an opinion because they don't have kids. Special needs or not, parents have an obligation to teach their kids how to act in regular society. Nobody has an obligation to accept your kids' poor behavior, regardless of the circumstances.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

"Special needs" should not be a pass to not try to teach a child the proper ways to behave in public. I understand that sometimes, the severity of the issue may not make this possible, but most cases don't rise to that level. I can't stand how some parents view any diagnosis on the spectrum as their "right" to allow their kid to act in any manner they see fit and that everybody else needs to "deal with it". Then anybody who dares to speak up gets called "insensitive" or that they have no right to an opinion because they don't have kids. Special needs or not, parents have an obligation to teach their kids how to act in regular society. Nobody has an obligation to accept your kids' poor behavior, regardless of the circumstances.

I had a friend whose child would bite and hit. Other people. But she didn't do anything about it. Because he was "on the spectrum."

We aren't friends anymore. I wouldn't allow myself to continue to be a chew toy.

 

[summerw]

I Think this thread is interesting. If we respond to the OP's post, what we're debating is whether it's rude for people to yell continuously through a ride where the soundtrack is integral to the ride. I don't think the special needs debate belongs here at all based on the op's post. Perhaps they were special needs and we should be compassionate, but the question is whether this is something that is by nature rude, not whether we should burn the offenders at the stake. I totally had some Beauty and the Beast pitchfork scene music going through my head. Lol.

I was really surprised to read that anyone thinks that it is NOT rude to yell continuously through a ride like Soarin' where being in the moment of the music and screen ARE the ride. For the points about coasters, if there is a soundtrack, it is non-essential to the experience of the ride. It can be a great compliment, but it is not the essence of the experience. For someone to yell briefly in HM? I hope we can all move past a moment's interruption.

What the OP describes is repeated shouting. That is really hard to tune out. I often experience people calling out on Soarin', and once had a 20 something next to me whose whole group was "flying" with their arms wide and in front of my face. Shouldn't we draw the line where one person's expression interferes with the group's enjoyment?

But we are all guilty of rudeness at times, hopefully due to oblivion rather than malice. I do agree we should all just move on when it happens, but can't we at least call it what it really is? Maybe it isn't a big deal, but it is rude, well that's what I think anyway.

 

[Nancyg56]

I'd be fine with that. Bringing everybody down to the lowest common denominator instead of trying to get the greatest return on investment on our best and brightest has had profoundly bad consequences on modern day society.

I have plenty to say about his, but I cannot, I woudl be banned.

 

[onnawufei]

My 8 year old (at the time) DD screamed in the stretching room the first time she rode. Maybe to some people it was "fake" but she was actually terrified. Don't assume that all those screams are fake.

Stacy

I won't lie, I find it irritating when people scream in the stretching room before the actual scream in the narration, but I just deal. Because while I'm pretty sure 90% of them are people who think they're funny, there are going to be a couple who mean it.

 

[Srbright]

I'd be fine with that. Bringing everybody down to the lowest common denominator instead of trying to get the greatest return on investment on our best and brightest has had profoundly bad consequences on modern day society.

That's the thing. "Why should I have my guns taken off me I've done nothing wrong." If you're a responsible gun owner and you don't mess around with your guns then you should be allowed to have them, you really should.

But that's not how society works. We have to play to the 1% that are so bad that they ruin it for the rest of us. We have to walk as slow as our slowest person to keep society moving.

I take drugs like a champion. We should all be allowed to take drugs. But we can't can we? Because Sarah took drugs and couldn't keep it together. THANKS SARAH.

5 fake internet dollars to the first person that knows this without having to look it up(and yes I cleaned it up to avoid infractions). Society only works when you take care of the entire community. If you ignore or marginalize an entire section of population or to the other end, only support those at the highest end you end up with an unbalanced society.

It's like in the professional world you cannot have all A players. You have to have B and C people, just average 9-5 people that want the same job for the next 10 years. Why do you think the majority of tech start ups fail? It isn't lack of VC. It's everyone has to be the best and the brightest and they forget that they need people to do the mundane things like pay the bills and file papers and generally do the things that the "A" players feel are beneath them.

Stacy

 

[GaryDis]

Why do you think the majority of tech start ups fail? It isn't lack of VC. It's everyone has to be the best and the brightest and they forget that they need people to do the mundane things like pay the bills and file papers and generally do the things that the "A" players feel are beneath them.

I don't think that's a good example. I've been at four tech start-ups, and none failed for any reason like that. One successfully went public, two others got bought out, the last was just in the over-saturated web portal market. The ones that I know that failed were over-extended, didn't have the right product, couldn't get marketing and development to work together, or were unlucky. Google remains a poster child for success by targeting the A players. It's not because they couldn't figure out they needed testers or administrators. They may not get the right mix of skills to succeed, but it isn't because they won't lower their standards.

 

[Srbright]

Forbes had a great article, linked below, and #4 on the list of why tech start ups fail was lack of versatile people. Harvard Business review had a really good article as well.

When companies only hire A players there is no room for movement or growth. Also, A players tend to not like to work with B/C players. So you either end up with the a players jumping ship for growth or infighting if they stay.

Stacy

http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilpat...t-you-need-to-know-about-the-10/#6387021e55e1

https://hbr.org/2003/06/lets-hear-it-for-b-players

 

[cobright]

My son and I rode the new Soarin for the first time yesterday and we sat between 2 couples who were unbelievably obnoxious Every time a new scene came up they yelled where it was and do you smell the grass and oh my gosh is that the Taj Mahal ...

You seem, based on your choice of words here, to be describing a small group of people who are awestruck and incredulous in the presence of the splendor of our great wide planet as brought to them by the magic of Disney. Think about what your reaction to their joyful moment says about you as a person. You didn't describe a group of people with an ounce if I'll intent. Just a low threshold for wonderment.

There are people sharing the earth with us right now for whom Soarin' is the closest they will ever get to Australia or the Taj mahal. We took my MiL to see lake Michigan and we still chuckle at her exclaiming, "in all my 45 years I've never seen a lighthouse" then an hour later, "in all my 45 years I've never seen 2 lighthouses"

I get it. You want your experiences to be about you and yours, and some strangers have managed to intrude upon that. That's part of living in a society. You don't always get to decide what other people will consider rude. If you ever find yourself face to face with pure joyous magic, I'm sure you won't need anyone to remind you to keep that joy to yourself.

If it is OK to yell and scream on Soarin, then it is ok on every ride. Hope you don't want to see the Haunted Mansion without a lot of fake screaming, it is A-OK! It is also expect that someone scream during the Hall of Presidents, inside Spaceship Earth, and Journey into your Imagination. After all, a ride is a ride and everything is inside a theme park, right?

The OP did not describe "fake" laughing and screaming. If someone on the Hop ride can't contain their joy... I'd be a right scoundrel to hold that against them. I've laughed out loud on spaceship earth the first few times through, seeing some quirky portrayal that I wasn't expecting.

This thread just shows how people think differently about what is considered rude behavior on an amusement park attraction. ...
I don't see an issue with someone being loud on Soarin, it wouldn't bother me or even take away from my experience, obviously its a YMMV thing.

I tend to agree. What's shocking to me is that the behavior described might have been a bit intrusive but it was completely without malice. What kind of person sees someone so thoroughly happy and reacts with a complaint about missing out on the exclusive enjoyment of a 5 minute ride.

 

[cobright]

I'd be fine with that. Bringing everybody down to the lowest common denominator instead of trying to get the greatest return on investment on our best and brightest has had profoundly bad consequences on modern day society.

Tell that to Stephen Hawking I suppose. Or John Nash, or Sydney Barrett. You're not going to find the best and brightest unless you are looking at everyone.

 

[Nancyg56]

I have plenty to say about his, but I cannot, I woudl be banned.

I quoted myself because I am seldom at such a loss for words as I was here. Thank you to the following posters who were not.

5 fake internet dollars to the first person that knows this without having to look it up(and yes I cleaned it up to avoid infractions). Society only works when you take care of the entire community. If you ignore or marginalize an entire section of population or to the other end, only support those at the highest end you end up with an unbalanced society.

It's like in the professional world you cannot have all A players. You have to have B and C people, just average 9-5 people that want the same job for the next 10 years. Why do you think the majority of tech start ups fail? It isn't lack of VC. It's everyone has to be the best and the brightest and they forget that they need people to do the mundane things like pay the bills and file papers and generally do the things that the "A" players feel are beneath them.

Stacy

Stacy, I have no idea why businesses fail, but I figure that in part your explanation is correct. I cannot understand how anyone with common decency would applaud the atrocities that took place during the "good old days". I was born in the 50's and watched in wonder while courageous parents fought to "mainstream" thei children. Kids who were isolated and whose parents were offended when others insisted they be kept hidden away. No. As a society we only gow whe we are inclusive, and if that means a few people are annoyed or inconvenienced in a theme park. Well.....so be it.

You seem, based on your choice of words here, to be describing a small group of people who are awestruck and incredulous in the presence of the splendor of our great wide planet as brought to them by the magic of Disney. Think about what your reaction to their joyful moment says about you as a person. You didn't describe a group of people with an ounce if I'll intent. Just a low threshold for wonderment.

There are people sharing the earth with us right now for whom Soarin' is the closest they will ever get to Australia or the Taj mahal. We took my MiL to see lake Michigan and we still chuckle at her exclaiming, "in all my 45 years I've never seen a lighthouse" then an hour later, "in all my 45 years I've never seen 2 lighthouses"

I get it. You want your experiences to be about you and yours, and some strangers have managed to intrude upon that. That's part of living in a society. You don't always get to decide what other people will consider rude. If you ever find yourself face to face with pure joyous magic, I'm sure you won't need anyone to remind you to keep that joy to yourself.


The OP did not describe "fake" laughing and screaming. If someone on the Hop ride can't contain their joy... I'd be a right scoundrel to hold that against them. I've laughed out loud on spaceship earth the first few times through, seeing some quirky portrayal that I wasn't expecting.



I tend to agree. What's shocking to me is that the behavior described might have been a bit intrusive but it was completely without malice. What kind of person sees someone so thoroughly happy and reacts with a complaint about missing out on the exclusive enjoyment of a 5 minute ride.

I know.

Tell that to Stephen Hawking I suppose. Or John Nash, or Sydney Barrett. You're not going to find the best and brightest unless you are looking at everyone.

Amen. One of my good friends is the smartest man I know. He is 64 now, and his Mom was one of those women wo would not tolerate her "crippled" son being institutionalized or sent to a "special" school. She changed how kids were educated in our town, and from there he took over. He went to school with us, loving the naysayers wrong. Once he graduated....no job for him. One of my fiends was a manager at a major insurance company, and after hearing me complain about this shame, he was able to pave the way for my friend, who was one of the original computer programmer analysts in that industry. Forgive me, I am not sure of the titles but I know the job he did. He was a gifted and talented man who would have been left behind by that poster upthread. I shudder to think about those whose intellect was not his, where would that poster have left them?

 

[HopperFan]

After my first post, that was directly related to the OP's situation I returned to see that "special needs" was brought in to the discussion and hence some "interesting" responses. I had written a post, let it sit for days and then delete - just decided not to post further. Silly me thought this thread would fade away. Sadly I returned to see it has gotten worse. As the parent of a 32 year old man with a child's mind and a laundry list of other issues I certainly have experience. (I also have two typical children and wanted their lives to be the full experience as well.) As a parent I have spent over 3 decades teaching appropriate behavior and firmly believe no matter your level of functioning that can happen. It's a hard job, it's nonstop, it's painful, it can be isolating, it means I have to give up on things that he truly can't handle ... but it's my job and he's my child and I will do everything I can to help him be part of society meeting social expectations. No favors are being done to any child typical or special if you don't teach them appropriate behavior.

And I also accept that sometimes the body wins out over the mind. My job is to help navigate. My backpack has medications, earplugs, headphones, hat, frog tog, snacks, water, music ... anything I can think of that helps us. As a parent I stay very tuned in to every single thing that is happening with DS and around me, 24/7. On an average day we would never have a panic attack but reality is the world around him, the sudden scream of guests around him, sudden and new sounds in an attraction ............. ALL this out of my or his control can cause a panic attack. (Note my efforts mean we rarely have issues). SO when we approach a line and your family is loud - we wait for others to enter between us ..... if we get to the theater and you plop down in the middle and we climb over you - it's to sit at the end so if we need to leave the show we can ...... if we seem to be leaving a gap in the line making you crazy - it's probably because the family in front of us is not maintaining personal space or their kids are not being supervised ..... if we seem to linger at our meal/table longer - we are relaxing, re-energizing, decompressing .... if you see us sitting for a parade forever with a trashcan to one side, me to the other and a backpack behind him - I am protecting his extremely important private space ... if I ask for end seats - it's not for an advantage but because I am alone with him and not wanting anyone to sit on the other side of him ..... if you walk out of the companion bathroom because it was just easier for you and you see us standing there distressed - it's because unlike you it is the ONLY bathroom we can use. I am planning ten steps ahead at every single moment.

Not looking for any sympathy, don't want it, never wanted it - I want you to know that as a parent of a special needs man, for 32 years, 24/7 I have been taking care of him, teaching him, protecting him and doing everything I can to help him be part of society not ostracized. I am focused every minute on not only he having a wonderful experience but insure he does not impact anyone else's vacation. It started when he was months old sitting on the curb of a NYC restaurant because he started to cry. I believe crying babies should be removed, special or typical, and all three of my kids found themselves removed. Promise, it is exhausting - but it's my life and I wouldn't change a thing. Why? Because my DS has impacted so many lives across this world in such a positive way - and has contributed to this world so much more than many brilliant folks I know. Your "denominator" has absolutely nothing to do with your value to society.

I think that someone "interjecting" a comment about special needs is still necessary, which I find unfortunate. I get that we all have this notion that Disney should be experienced the way we think is appropriate, but we do not get to witte the rules. I have no idea if the people who the OP is discussing were, rude or excited. But Iwill tell you I do think this post is rude. Really rude. If a child or an adult has challenges while in an attraction, well that's life. DO we go back to the 50's when anyone who was "different" was kept in the shadows in order to prevent "annoying" others? This post is in my opinion, shameful.

I'd be fine with that. Bringing everybody down to the lowest common denominator instead of trying to get the greatest return on investment on our best and brightest has had profoundly bad consequences on modern day society.

I quoted myself because I am seldom at such a loss for words as I was here.

I get that this got moved to a "community" board but it is the Theme Park Community. If we have lowered this discussion to say that individuals with handicaps should be institutionalized again, I think it's either time to lock the thread or move it to a straight up community board. Luckily Disney and the theme parks do not treat our family members like "the lowest denominator."

"Special needs" should not be a pass to not try to teach a child the proper ways to behave in public. I understand that sometimes, the severity of the issue may not make this possible, but most cases don't rise to that level. I can't stand how some parents view any diagnosis on the spectrum as their "right" to allow their kid to act in any manner they see fit and that everybody else needs to "deal with it". Then anybody who dares to speak up gets called "insensitive" or that they have no right to an opinion because they don't have kids. Special needs or not, parents have an obligation to teach their kids how to act in regular society. Nobody has an obligation to accept your kids' poor behavior, regardless of the circumstances.

While I agree with you and have spent 32 years insuring my child learned appropriate behavior and the consequences when his body wins out .....
..... your previous comments completely negate any value this may have brought.



On the upside, this forum has provided the Ignore option, and since I come here for positive interaction, I'll opt in.

 

[Nancyg56]

After my first post, that was directly related to the OP's situation I returned to see that "special needs" was brought in to the discussion and hence some "interesting" responses. I had written a post, let it sit for days and then delete - just decided not to post further. Silly me thought this thread would fade away. Sadly I returned to see it has gotten worse. As the parent of a 32 year old man with a child's mind and a laundry list of other issues I certainly have experience. (I also have two typical children and wanted their lives to be the full experience as well.) As a parent I have spent over 3 decades teaching appropriate behavior and firmly believe no matter your level of functioning that can happen. It's a hard job, it's nonstop, it's painful, it can be isolating, it means I have to give up on things that he truly can't handle ... but it's my job and he's my child and I will do everything I can to help him be part of society meeting social expectations. No favors are being done to any child typical or special if you don't teach them appropriate behavior.

And I also accept that sometimes the body wins out over the mind. My job is to help navigate. My backpack has medications, earplugs, headphones, hat, frog tog, snacks, water, music ... anything I can think of that helps us. As a parent I stay very tuned in to every single thing that is happening with DS and around me, 24/7. On an average day we would never have a panic attack but reality is the world around him, the sudden scream of guests around him, sudden and new sounds in an attraction ............. ALL this out of my or his control can cause a panic attack. (Note my efforts mean we rarely have issues). SO when we approach a line and your family who is loud - we wait for others to enter between us ..... if we get to the theater and you plop down in the middle and we climb over you - it's to sit at the end so if we need to leave the show we can ...... if we seem to be leaving a gap in the line making you crazy - it's probably because the family in front of us is not maintaining personal space or their kids are not being supervised ..... if we seem to linger at our meal/table longer - we are relaxing, re-energizing, decompressing .... if you see us sitting for a parade forever with a trashcan to one side, me to the other and a backpack behind him - I am protecting his extremely important private space ... if I ask for end seats - it's not for an advantage but because I am alone with him and not wanting anyone to sit on the other side of him ..... if you walk out of the companion bathroom because it was just easier for you and you see us standing there distressed - it's because unlike you it is the ONLY bathroom we can use. I am planning ten steps ahead at every single moment.

Not looking for any sympathy, don't want it, never wanted it - I want you to know that as a parent of a special needs man, for 32 years, 24/7 I have been taking care of him, teaching him, protecting him and doing everything I can to help him be part of society not ostracized. I am focused every minute on not only he having a wonderful experience but insure he does not impact anyone else's vacation. It started when he was months old sitting on the curb of a NYC restaurant because he started to cry. I believe crying babies should be removed, special or typical, and all three of my kids found themselves removed. Promise, it is exhausting - but it's my life and I wouldn't change a thing. Why? Because my DS has impacted so many lives across this world in such a positive way - and has contributed to this world so much more than many brilliant folks I know. Your "denominator" has absolutely nothing to do with your value to society.







I get that this got moved to a "community" board but it is the Theme Park Community. If we have lowered this discussion to say that individuals with handicaps should be institutionalized again, I think it's either time to lock the thread or move it to a straight up community board. Luckily Disney and the theme parks do not treat our family members like "the lowest denominator."



While I agree with you and have spent 32 years insuring my child learned appropriate behavior and the consequences when his body wins out .....
..... your previous comments completely negate any value this may have brought.



On the upside, this forum has provided the Ignore option, and since I come here for positive interaction, I'll opt in.

I do hope that my response did not indicate that I was in agreement to returning to those abhorrent practices that took place in my childhood and even as I was a young adult. If so, please accept my apology, I was in no way supportive of the "I'm fine with that" mentality. Not all that long ago there was a society that tried to bring all up to a certain standard by removing those who might drag the whole down to the "least common denominator". Even if the comment was made in jest, it was extremely unkind.

I agree that there are rude people in any WDW attraction, just as there are in any vacation destination that people can visit. With that said, it has been my experience that Disney is a safe place to bring people of all ages who would not always be welcomed or safe elsewhere. I would prefer to endure the rare occurrences of truly rude behavior in attractions, etc. than to try to contain the exuberance or the discomfort that others may not be able to control.

 

[smiths02]

I'm glad for you. Because I have had my ride on the Haunted Mansion ruined more than once by people fake-screaming. And one time they were even yelled at by whoever was next to them, and it sounded like they were all part of a group. You can leave your "adult persona" at the door without becoming a rude, entitled jerk.

So a scream in the stretching room when there is a scream on the soundtrack anyhow is morally wrong? I always viewed this as more of a campy, Rocky Horror Picture type thing.

 

[smiths02]

Somehow I knew there would be a defensive reply. I'm not talking about your child. I'm talking about adults and teens who think it's amusing to scream at the top of their lungs, frightening anyone who is actually scared even more, and then laugh.

I prepared my little ones that it would get dark and people would scream at that part in the stretching room. I told them it was people being silly.

 

[cobright]

Special needs or not, parents have an obligation to teach their kids how to act in regular society. Nobody has an obligation to accept your kids' poor behavior, regardless of the circumstances.

In my experience, parents of kids with special needs spend far more time working on their children'should behavior than most parents of your best and brightest(I don't know if there are any newer terms or if this one is considered offensive. I don't usually worry about being offensive but offending anyone is rarely my intent).

In terms of social offensiveness, the rare occurance of an outburst or uncontrolled expression by an autistic kid or someone with downs syndrome or whatever is far less of an inconvenience than the scads of kids run amok while their parents have a digital screen in their face.

In the grand scheme, accepting that people (whether 'best and brightest' or completely dependant) as Kant describes, are not means to ends but are ends in and of themselves. We all give up a little, that we may go not much faster than our slowest fellow traveller. And all of us are carried, to some extent, by those who fly higher than we. This is how grownups describe living in a society.

 

[maxiesmom]

So a scream in the stretching room when there is a scream on the soundtrack anyhow is morally wrong? I always viewed this as more of a campy, Rocky Horror Picture type thing.

To me there is a big difference between fake screaming because you think you are clever, and screaming because you are truly startled or scared. I think many of us need to remember that it is usually someone's first trip, and it is not kind to do something to lessen the experience for them. Just like reciting the show line for line is bad form, screaming to be funny or annoying is bad form.

 

[Family of Disney Addicts]

We were on there today and were lucky enough to not have those types on with us. We too get annoyed with those who ruin it for others