"New" Rule Great

[njguy_south]

It is about time that DVC enforced the "renting rule." I, for one, am tired of those who bought into DVC to make money. They are costing us ALL money in increased costs to manage DVC. Additionally, it makes it harder to get reservations at certain popular times, since renters are wanting to go then, and the "landlords" are supplying them with the points. This enforcement will balance out the playing field.

When I first bought into DVC in 2000, it was not difficult to get reservations, but in the last two years, I have not been able to book at my home resort (Boardwalk) at any time after my 11 month window. This had never been the case before. In fact, I was booking in January 2005 for a weekend in November 2005 and could not get anything other than at Saratoga Springs. I believe that it is because of the "landlords" who are renting points. Think of it in simple terms: If there are 1,000 DVC members, not all 1,000 will be wanting to book the same weekend. However, if you increase that number by bringing renters into the mix, that number is multipled many times over, so that now a DVC member is competing with perhaps 2,000 people trying for similar reservations.

This "new" rule is a fact that should have been enforced long ago. And those that are supposedly selling off points in droves is a great sign that things may become what DVC was intended to be, for families who want to own a piece of the Magic.

And if any gets ticked by my thoughts, fine. If you are a renter of points, don't other to defend yoruself to me, since I really don't want to hear your gripe.

 

[chicopjim1]

EXCELLENT POST. I could not agree more

 

[Spine_DR]

I completly agree with you njguy, but the points transfer thing wont stop people from renting and I find it hard to believe that they will actually enforce the "pattern of renting thing" with the possible PR and legal probs it could cause but I hope they do enforce it.

 

[Darkside]

It never occured to me about renting points In fact, I did not know it was even possible to actually make money by renting points. I really hope that enforcement of this rule will make reservations easier. This was one of my reservations in buying from the begining. So far I have only read a bunch of posts mostly agreeing with this policy enforment. This makes me wonder if these renters will be selling off their Disney interests or fight the system? I guess we will see?

 

[SusanD]

If in doubt that this is a common practice you just need to go to ebay and search DVC. There are always listings for vacation rentals and often at the most desirable times.

 

[dvc at last !]

nj guy,

I like what you had to say !

 

[MIDisFan]

Is RENTING points to a non memeber considered a TRANSFER? We are considering purchasing DVC so I have been reading these forums to soak up as much info as possible. I'm not sure what viewpoint to take on the topic yet, but wouldn't you be competing for the same number of reservations even if the people renting points, used the points instead?

 

[tmt martins]

Is RENTING points to a non memeber considered a TRANSFER? We are considering purchasing DVC so I have been reading these forums to soak up as much info as possible. I'm not sure what viewpoint to take on the topic yet, but wouldn't you be competing for the same number of reservations even if the people renting points, used the points instead?

No it's not a transfer but in those rules are a Pattern of renting clause as well.

The problem is they most likely wouldn't be useing those points for just the PEAK renting time like they do with the intent to rent.Then if they don't get their monies worth from E-Bay then they cancel before the points go into holding.

The biggest problem is they tie up weeks by renting just a few days during that week.Now at the 11 month mark you have the same advantage to get that room as well so no problem there. The problem occures when you try to get a 7 month or last minute trip and they are all over E-bay and here on the boards.

Thats why many waitlist come available I think due to the renters canceling because they didn't get what they wanted.

As long as they are playing by the RULES I have no problem with it but what they signed and what they are doing are two different things.

 

[WDWDave]

I agree. I hope Disney does everything it can to stop people who are in the business of renting points for profit. A quick look at Ebay confirms that there are some who do just that.

The problem becomes much worse when someone can transfer points from a resort such as OKW or SSR to their BCV account. From reading these boards I now understand that these transfered points then become BCV points. At that point not only are we competing with renters for prime dates but we are put in the unfair position of having to compete for reservations with others using points that should not even be available to be used until the 7 month window.

We own at BCV & WLV. If I've used all my BCV points up for the year but want to make additional reservations for BCV using my WLV points I must wait until the 7 month window. I'm not allowed to transfer points from one to the other because they are both in a February use year.

Should someone transfering in points they don't even own and renting them for profit be able to have an advantage over those who own at that resort? NO!

In this situation we are not playing on a level field and much of the 11 month booking advantage is being lost. Most of us bought at our home resorts because that is where we felt we would want to stay the majority of the time. Lets encourage Disney to do everything they can to make sure owners priorities are placed first.

 

[MIDisFan]

No it's not a transfer but in those rules are a Pattern of renting clause as well.

The problem is they most likely wouldn't be useing those points for just the PEAK renting time like they do with the intent to rent.Then if they don't get their monies worth from E-Bay then they cancel before the points go into holding.

The biggest problem is they tie up weeks by renting just a few days during that week.Now at the 11 month mark you have the same advantage to get that room as well so no problem there. The problem occures when you try to get a 7 month or last minute trip and they are all over E-bay and here on the boards.

Thats why many waitlist come available I think due to the renters canceling because they didn't get what they wanted.

As long as they are playing by the RULES I have no problem with it but what they signed and what they are doing are two different things.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. Like I said, I am interested in buying into DVC, but I have also rented points in the past. From the way you explained it, I understand why it is a bigger problem than I thought.

Now, What impact will this have on people who may want to rent out their points to take the Disney Cruise or Concierge collection. Will it make it harder for them to sell and if they do it on more than one occasion, do you think Disney will red flag them as "renting for profit"?

 

[rinkwide]

...And if any gets ticked by my thoughts, fine. If you are a renter of points, don't other to defend yoruself to me, since I really don't want to hear your gripe.

I don't have a comment, I felt this just had to be repeated.

 

[MIDisFan]

I don't have a comment, I felt this just had to be repeated.

Is this directed towards my replies? I did not intend to sound like I was defending renters or the fact that I have rented points in the past.

 

[rinkwide]

Is this directed towards my replies? I did not intend to sound like I was defending renters or the fact that I have rented points in the past.

No, not at all. Strange as it sounds, I'm just fond of the statement. Here it comes again...

...And if any gets ticked by my thoughts, fine. If you are a renter of points, don't other to defend yoruself to me, since I really don't want to hear your gripe.

 

[sorcerermick]

I have to agree, I am glad that Disney is enforcing this rule. But I have to admit, I generally rent some points out each year and here is why......

I own 610 points in total, which is enough for me to rent a 2 bedroom for two weeks in the summer. This is what I will need as soon as the children get older, and now that I added a baby to my previous family of four this past April. For now, however, we were still using a studio. I 100% agree with the crackdown, I just hope I am not penalized for being a part time renter of points when I don't need them. If I am understanding things, I will still be able to make reservations in friends/families.renters names without a problem, but I will be limited to 1 transfer per year.

And by the way...I NEVER book a "prime" week with the idea of renting it. I only post my available points on the rent/trade board, and then wait for a response.

Hope I don't get flamed, just wanted to hear what others thoughts are also.

Thanks!

 

[paults]

 

[dianeschlicht]

So did I miss something over the weekend? I didn't hear DVC was doing away with allowing folks to rent. I thought it was just limiting the transfers to one per year per membership.

I don't rent out points, and don't ever see a need to, but our contract gives all of us the right to do that. Since anyone who would be renting points would be making some sort of income from it, how is DVC going to determin how much renting constitutes a "business".

While seeing folks book up dozens of studio accommodations at prime times and offering them for sale on Ebay irritates me, I just don't see what DVC can do about it since they do allow for renting. There would have to be a published rule of what constitutes "too much" renting before they could start pulling the rug on some folks.

As far as that goes, the rules discussed last week would do nothing to limit that activity.....only the transfering in or out of numerous points.

 

[dumbo71]

These are some great thoughts by the OP.

Now for the reality of this situation:

The ONLY thing that is affected here is transfers with the one per use year limit. Everything else is the same.

Renters will continue to rent and I dare say will continue to transfer, albeit in larger amounts. They may simply change membership numbers with a simple $50 recording fee and then be able to transfer once per year per contract.
Remember renting is clearly allowed under the rules of the POS.

Also, the transfer loophole has not been plugged. Much to my dismay they can't seem to solve this problem the right way. They are simply doing all they can right now by cutting down the number of transfers.

Your opinion that renting will be cut down by this is NOT correct. What do you think the large point holders will do? Stop renting? No, they will continue and in fact this booking problem may get worse as renters will simply book peak weeks as opposed to transferring points to MEMBERS. Also, the per point price for transfers and rentals will now only increase.

I fel your frustration with this, I really do. I just think it is a bit naive to think things are going to change. Thos elooking to "game" the system will continue to do so. DVC simply wil not fight this battle despite the email notification.

Thanks for the post and I'm with Rinkwide, I love that statement. Lets see it again.


Disclaimer: I rent two 6 day periods per year on Ebay. I own all of my points, have never transferred, and don't plan to do so. I use more points per year than I rent. I reserve the right to use my membership this way until work scheduling alows me more flexibility. I bought the number of points I'll use SOMEDAY. I do not feel the least bit guilty using MY membership to its fullest. I suspect there are far more people like me than there are commercial renters and transferrers.

Be careful what you wish for, would you want the ability to invite family and friends to use your points? That would be the only way renting will stop if only the owner is permitted to use the points and that simply cannot happen.

 

[Dina]

I'm not even a DVC Member (yet ) and I totally agree with you!!!

 

[Chuck S]

So did I miss something over the weekend? I didn't hear DVC was doing away with allowing folks to rent. I thought it was just limiting the transfers to one per year per membership.

I don't rent out points, and don't ever see a need to, but our contract gives all of us the right to do that. Since anyone who would be renting points would be making some sort of income from it, how is DVC going to determin how much renting constitutes a "business".

While seeing folks book up dozens of studio accommodations at prime times and offering them for sale on Ebay irritates me, I just don't see what DVC can do about it since they do allow for renting. There would have to be a published rule of what constitutes "too much" renting before they could start pulling the rug on some folks.

As far as that goes, the rules discussed last week would do nothing to limit that activity.....only the transfering in or out of numerous points.

Diane, I think the OP was referring more to this phrase in the e-mail version of Vacation Magic:
To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for profit is discovered.

 

[Doctor P]

To be perfectly honest, I don't think DVD will have difficulty cracking down on a few of the more blatant and aggressive renters who clearly are running a business. The transfer rule will help reduce the arbitraging that some of the commercial renters have been able to do. Furthermore, I expect that the email statement will have a chilling effect on some of the activity without any explicit enforcement being required. In addition, all DVD needs to do is to go after one or two heavy commercial renters (a couple I would consider commercial renters are engaging in 10 or more rental transactions PER MONTH) to reduce the need for further future enforcement.