Negative Threads in the Top 10

[SorcererHeidi]

I think Heidi nailed it right here.

I've been going to WDW since 1978. I've seen it go from one park and 3 hotels to 4 parks, 2 water parks, 2 mini golf courses, and 22 (?) hotels. The experience of a Disney vacation has changed dramatically over the years, in both good ways and not so good ways. To expect that those not so good changes aren't going to generate substantial discussion among the Disney fan community is naive at best.

Thanx Steve. I also want to respectfully point out, Jimmy, that I fully acknowledge the fact that people are much more inclined to post about negative things vs. positive, which I why I wrote that whole section. I also personally believe (and try to live - each and every day) "there are 1,000 people that tell you when you do a BAD job, I want to be the ONE that tells you when you do a GOOD one" - just in case anybody thinks I'm "all negative all the time".

 

[DisneyKevin]

Obviously, the podcast board can confer "Top 10" status to whichever threads it wants. But I found the eye-rolling and Teresa's frustration with negative threads to be unwarranted. Sometimes the podcast crew forgets that the experiences that "once-a-year" or "once-every-couple-of-years" guests differ dramatically from the experiences of those who live 20 minutes away and can come and go as they please with their annual passes. If a ride breaks down, the local can skip it and come back another day. If the crowd level at Epcot during Food and Wine is unmanageable, they can leave and come back later. These type of frustrations roll off the backs of locals, but they can be grating to a person who has sunk thousands of dollars into their vacation, and if they are disappointed, they are going to vent and rant about it. Anyone who is "tired of all the negativity" should steer clear of chat boards populated by people who are spending thousands of dollars at a place that continues to get more and more expensive. People are going to find things to complain about. Don't blame them. Don't roll your eyes at them. Don't criticize them. Just avoid them. If you don't want to reward those threads at the end of the month, fine. To a degree, that makes sense. But hold back on the cynicism aimed at posters such as the one who started the MNSSHP Chaos thread. Locals have the luxury of saying: "Oh, I would never go to the first party of the year. We always hold back and go when it is less crowded." But the person who started that thread did not have that option. And dismissing his complaints about what transpired on that night was a bit insulting. By his account, that first night was worth complaining about, just as Pete complained and ranted about the Villains Soiree last year.

Sure. If people shifted their expectations to: "Expect to pay more and receive less", then perhaps there would be fewer negative threads when things live up (or down) to those expectations. But for 40 years, people have not had to approach WDW with those expectations. Maybe now they should.


Funny how people often overlook this simple truth. Approached from a purely logical, analytical angle, there can be only two reasons why there are more and more negative threads. One is that humans are evolving and becoming more negative, and are predisposed to post negative things more so than ever before. And the second reason is that people are finding more and more things to complain about. I have seen no biological evidence of the former. That leaves the latter.

JimmyV, I usually agree with you, but in this case i don't.

First, there is a saying in most service industries....if a customer is happy, they will tell one or two people. If a customer is unhappy, they will tell everyone. This is not a new sentiment. It's been around since I was starting to work...and I'm old.

Whether it's a feeling of disappointment or a feeling of vindictiveness....people feel the need to let others know when something isn't good.

We also have instant access to everyone's emotional temperature. With the internet, I can tell you I hated a movie before the credits roll.

I think this sort of instant communication feeds the need to let others know that you didn't have a good experience. Some do it under the guise of "saving everyone else the money, time, stress, aggravation etc." Others do it teach the business (movie, restaurant, theme park etc) a lesson. Read Yelp or Trip Advisor reviews and see how many include 'I told the manager I was going to give them a bad review and they did nothing to fix my issue"e. And some do it out of disappointment.

Talking about Disney is part of my job and I sometimes think "are we giving people too much information"? Are we creating unrealistic expectations?
I travel a lot and I put a great deal of planning into my travels, but sometimes planes are delayed. Sometimes things break. Sometimes restaurants have a bad night. You get the idea.

i was livid that US Air out and out lied to me. They sold me something that I didn't get. I asked repeated and repeatedly they told me something that wasn't true. Because I complained, I was called a "security risk" in front of a plane load of people. Luckily, an off-duty pilot was sitting next to me and let everyone, including USAir management, know I wasn't a security risk.

I am a travel professional and I know stuff happens, but I still felt the need to vent. I think this might be another reason to add to your list of reasons for negativity. Sometimes you just have to share your frustration.

As for this happening because people are paying thousands of dollars....that's just not the case. There is a Kindle discussion forum on Amazon. There is just as much negativity and complaining there and a Kindle book can usually be had for $9.99. Cost has nothing to do with this.

And finally....I frequently see the idea that the podcast team is out of touch with the "once a year, saved their whole lives, will never be able to come back guests" and I apologize, but I think it's bunk. While the folks on the show are all local, many of us are in the travel business and deal on a daily basis with clients booking "trip of a lifetime" Disney vacations. Whether it be Amanda's fifth birthday or Grandma's last trip with the family, we deal with their wishes, hopes and dreams on an intimate level. We try to make each and every Disney vacation the very best we can....whether they have just enough to budget through a day or two or if they are blowing the bank on a dream vacation.

On top of that...none of us were born here. We all moved to Florida with a love for Disney. We were all "once a year" guests at one time who scrimped, saved, plotted and planned our way back to our "happy place". Our love and understanding of Disney fans lead us to want to work with and for folks that share the passion. I sometimes think we maybe the craziest of Disney fans. Most of us moved thousands of miles to be near the place we love.

So please...give us some credit for understanding. We may not always appear to see things from that perspective...but I promise...we do.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

I definitely think you all do understand, Kevin, and that's why it's so nice to have calm rational discussions here, and have all opinions accepted if well rationalized, and clearly stated - amongst like individuals who do "get us", and our love for Disney. Thank you all for continuing to foster that - The Team, the Mods., and all my fellow posters. It makes me sad because I very well know and remember how great Disney is, and can be. If I didn't LOVE Disney so much, I wouldn't CARE.

 

[Angel Ariel]

If I didn't LOVE Disney so much, I wouldn't CARE.

Exactly!

 

[SorcererHeidi]

I definitely think you all do understand, Kevin, and that's why it's so nice to have calm rational discussions here, and have all opinions accepted if well rationalized, and clearly stated - amongst like individuals who do "get us", and our love for Disney. Thank you all for continuing to foster that - The Team, the Mods., and all my fellow posters. I may not always AGREE with what others say, but I promise to always LISTEN and appreciate the time they take to state their views, if done calmly and rationally. It makes me sad because I very well know and remember how great Disney is, and can be. If I didn't LOVE Disney so much, I wouldn't CARE.

 

[Im_her_Mickey]

I can understand the negative threads...to a point. I think it's in our general human nature to complain when we aren't satisfied, for whatever reason it may be. Personally, I can think back to Disney trips I made as a child with my family, and how magical they were, as I remember them. Of course, being a child, I wasn't responsible for any of the expenses or anything like that. Though, now as a young adult (27) I'm at the stage where I am responsible for some of those expenses, and while growing up I was lucky enough to travel to Orlando every year with my family, now I'm going in December for the first time in over five years, and unsure of when I'll be able to go back. It suck I don't get to go nearly as often as I used to, but to me that just makes it mean even more when I do get to go. As for the negative aspects of any trip...I feel there will NEVER be a time where EVERYTHING goes perfectly. But it's really not about what goes wrong, but how you deal with it. Sure, you can dwell on a bad experience, let it ruin your mood, and thus ruin the mood/day of everyone else in your group. Or, and this is usually my approach, you roll with the punches, and move forward. I do apologize if it seems I'm out of place here, as that is truly not my intention. I guess I have rambled, but I just feel the negative threads are going to be there regardless of the situation. Times have changed, and sometimes not ALL the changes are for the better. But whether we like it or not, Disney is going to do what they feel they need to do, for whatever reason. They are STILL the absolute best theme park vacation out there. I've been to several theme parks throughout the U.S. and I have always said nothing compares to Disney. Do I agree with everything they do? Of course not, but I still love and support the company. Okay...now I really have rambled enough now. Thank you for taking the time to read this, and hope everyone has a great day/night/week/month/year!

 

[JimmyV]

First, there is a saying in most service industries....if a customer is happy, they will tell one or two people. If a customer is unhappy, they will tell everyone. This is not a new sentiment. It's been around since I was starting to work...and I'm old.

Whether it's a feeling of disappointment or a feeling of vindictiveness....people feel the need to let others know when something isn't good.

We also have instant access to everyone's emotional temperature. With the internet, I can tell you I hated a movie before the credits roll.

I think this sort of instant communication feeds the need to let others know that you didn't have a good experience. Some do it under the guise of "saving everyone else the money, time, stress, aggravation etc." Others do it teach the business (movie, restaurant, theme park etc) a lesson. Read Yelp or Trip Advisor reviews and see how many include 'I told the manager I was going to give them a bad review and they did nothing to fix my issue"e. And some do it out of disappointment.

Talking about Disney is part of my job and I sometimes think "are we giving people too much information"? Are we creating unrealistic expectations?
I travel a lot and I put a great deal of planning into my travels, but sometimes planes are delayed. Sometimes things break. Sometimes restaurants have a bad night. You get the idea.

i was livid that US Air out and out lied to me. They sold me something that I didn't get. I asked repeated and repeatedly they told me something that wasn't true. Because I complained, I was called a "security risk" in front of a plane load of people. Luckily, an off-duty pilot was sitting next to me and let everyone, including USAir management, know I wasn't a security risk.

I am a travel professional and I know stuff happens, but I still felt the need to vent. I think this might be another reason to add to your list of reasons for negativity. Sometimes you just have to share your frustration.

As for this happening because people are paying thousands of dollars....that's just not the case. There is a Kindle discussion forum on Amazon. There is just as much negativity and complaining there and a Kindle book can usually be had for $9.99. Cost has nothing to do with this.

And finally....I frequently see the idea that the podcast team is out of touch with the "once a year, saved their whole lives, will never be able to come back guests" and I apologize, but I think it's bunk. While the folks on the show are all local, many of us are in the travel business and deal on a daily basis with clients booking "trip of a lifetime" Disney vacations. Whether it be Amanda's fifth birthday or Grandma's last trip with the family, we deal with their wishes, hopes and dreams on an intimate level. We try to make each and every Disney vacation the very best we can....whether they have just enough to budget through a day or two or if they are blowing the bank on a dream vacation.

On top of that...none of us were born here. We all moved to Florida with a love for Disney. We were all "once a year" guests at one time who scrimped, saved, plotted and planned our way back to our "happy place". Our love and understanding of Disney fans lead us to want to work with and for folks that share the passion. I sometimes think we maybe the craziest of Disney fans. Most of us moved thousands of miles to be near the place we love.

So please...give us some credit for understanding. We may not always appear to see things from that perspective...but I promise...we do.

Two things. First, the internet isn't new. It has been around for a while. So the instant access to information cannot be the reason why we are seeing more negativity. The idea that "people complain more than they praise" is an adage that has been around a long time, as you acknowledge. The advent of the internet did not create this phenomenon. It only magnifies it. And that assumes that it is even true. Use your examples. Look at Yelp and Tripadvisor and tell me if there are more 3, 4 and 5 star reviews or more 1 and 2 star reviews. We'll look at an easy case--Tony's Town Square Restaurant--a place that gets no love here. What are the metrics on Tripadvisor? 1,130 reviews of 3-5 stars and 218 reviews of 1-2 stars. So this idea that complaints outpace praise is simply not provable.

Second, none of what I wrote was directed at you. You were not the one doing the eye rolling, nor did you say: "I am sick and tired of all the complaining". The people who demonstrated that disgust clearly must not have the same level of understanding or perspective as you. Corey captured it when he relayed his story of going to F&W with some friends. He was locked into a particular day because that is when his friends could go, and he was frustrated with the 45 minute line just to get tickets. He clearly "got it" and could share his experience about a day that might warrant a "negative thread". Others were in disbelief over this. Differing perspectives, to be sure. And working as a travel professional planning a vacation for a family is a prospective thing, not a retrospective thing. You might do your level best to get a guest everything they want, including tickets to the first MNSSHP of the year. But when you do so, you have no idea if Disney is going to oversell the event, or fail to remove non-party guests from the park, or fail to enforce the "party guests only" rule for attractions. These are the things that gave rise to the Chaos Thread. They are real. And for certain podcast members to dismiss these issues as pointless whining was insulting at worst, and a failure to have perspective at best. I have listened to/watched enough of your podcasts to believe that had you been a part of this one, you would not have shared the view that this was pointless whining. In the end, we are left to believe one of two things. Either people are complaining pointlessly, or they are complaining because there is something to complain about. I have enough confidence in human nature in general and Disney guests in particular to conclude that it is not the former.

 

[disneysteve]

people feel the need to let others know when something isn't good.

This!

If I have a negative experience, especially at a place where I've previously had positive experiences, I let people know.

Here's a perfect non-Disney example. Yesterday, on the way home from the Delaware DIS meet, we stopped for lunch at a restaurant that we have been to numerous times over the years. It's kind of a local institution. From the moment we walked in, we realized that the place has gone downhill. There was an unpleasant odor permeating the place. The closer we looked around, the more we realized the place just wasn't being cleaned well. The waiter was rather creepy and inappropriate. My wife came out of the ladies room and showed me a photo of the mold growing on the ceiling. Needless to say, we won't be going back, and once we were home and settled, I went straight to TripAdvisor to post a review. If I was a customer thinking about eating there, I would love to have that information in advance so I could make an informed choice.

I'm not suggesting that anything at Disney is quite that bad, but there are places that just don't live up to their potential or to their hype. I see nothing wrong with sharing that information with others. Isn't that part of the whole point of this site?

 

[disneysteve]

I think it is important when reading negative threads and reviews to really pay attention to the nature of complaints. Is the author complaining about a one-time event (the waitress spilled my soup) or a more fundamental issue (the seats in the booths were all really worn out). Is the negativity personal (I didn't like the color of the carpet) or not (the wallpaper was peeling off the walls).

I have read reviews that were written to be negative but everything the author complained about was something that wouldn't bother me at all. Sometimes it was even something that I'd prefer. So we went, despite the negative reviews, and enjoyed ourselves. But at least we went in informed and knowing what to expect, both good and bad.

I say keep the negative threads coming as long as they are well thought out and written intelligently.

 

[OKW Lover]

I guess I'm more concerned about threads that are "click bait". An unfortunate trend that "news" sites (yes, like CNN) have increasingly turned to in order to get people to read stories that wouldn't normally get their attention.

 

[pepperandchips]

I guess I'm more concerned about threads that are "click bait". An unfortunate trend that "news" sites (yes, like CNN) have increasingly turned to in order to get people to read stories that wouldn't normally get their attention.

I was about to post something about click bait stories too! I will admit, when I see the "powered by Google" thread suggestions at the bottom of my safari window, I tend to click on sensational thread titles - such as the one posted many years ago by a mother who was turned away from the nursing rockers in the baby care center. The thread was ages old, but the topic made me say "whaaaa?" And I clicked on it. When I noticed the post dates I was flabbergasted that the thread was being suggested in 2015. I saw many of the negative "top ten" threads in my suggested threads at the bottom of safari as well, and read a few of them. So I think it is a self driving problem - the click bait titles drive traffic and the high traffic threads become suggested threads in the ad area at the bottom, driving even more traffic.

 

[Julylady]

I do read the "complaint" threads. I try to judge if in my thinking the complaint is legitimate and then think about what I can do to make sure what ever happened to them doesn't happen to me!

 

[BadgerGirl84]

I listened to the top ten trip planning threads segment in last weeks show and I much preferred the top ten most popular threads segment that has traditionally been done. I actually fast forwarded through most of the segment last week once I realized they were just planning threads from a few different boards (marathon planning, single parents, etc.) I'm a savvy boards user and I already know how to find threads that may pertain to my trip planning. I realize the segment may have been helpful to others...but I missed hearing feedback from the podcast group on those threads that really blew up on the boards in the past month...negativity and all.

 

[disneysteve]

I listened to the top ten trip planning threads segment in last weeks show and I much preferred the top ten most popular threads segment that has traditionally been done. I actually fast forwarded through most of the segment last week once I realized they were just planning threads from a few different boards (marathon planning, single parents, etc.)

I realize the segment may have been helpful to others...but I missed hearing feedback from the podcast group on those threads that really blew up on the boards in the past month...negativity and all.

I agree. I hardly ever use the boards to help me plan a trip. I use them to keep up to date on what's happening, so I have very little interest in the planning threa, especially those that are targeted to specific demographics (marathon folks, single parents, etc.).

 

[racefans44]

I read the negative reviews, but I try to do it with a critical eye. I read the negative comments to hopefully avoid some of these bad experiences for myself. I try to sort through and disregard the negative posts from overly-picky people or the obvious people that are just trying to get some sort of compensation. There are legitimate bad experiences and I try to learn from these peoples' mistakes, but I also ignore some many of the negative reviews. Every restaurant and every resort on Disney property has many negative reviews. I read them and many times I find myself thinking "that's not that bad" or "that wouldn't bother me" and I try them out anyway. Most of the time, I really enjoy the experience and am glad that I didn't put too much stock in the negative post.

 

[woodleygrrl]

I agree. I hardly ever use the boards to help me plan a trip. I use them to keep up to date on what's happening, so I have very little interest in the planning thread, especially those that are targeted to specific demographics (marathon folks, single parents, etc.).

I think you are definitely in the minority here. I would have to believe that MOST people use these boards to help plan a trip.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think you are definitely in the minority here. I would have to believe that MOST people use these boards to help plan a trip.

On the boards, I would agree..but those that listen to the podcast? Obviously I don't have any inside demographic information, so this is just my thoughts, but while most non-Disney people I know might think to look for a forum like the DIS to answer questions, very few of them would listen to a weekly news podcast about WDW. Heck, I've been on these boards since 2006 and I didn't start listening to the podcast until last year (and now listen to the Orlando, DLR, and Trip podcasts frequently). I think the podcast audience is a bit different than the audience on the boards. I think most who listen to the podcast are the Disney lovers/experts listening to get their "Disney fix" with the weekly news, not so much Disney "newbies" looking to plan trips. That isn't a bad thing, so I hope no one takes it that way! I just do think it's a little different.

 

[EricInPA]

I think most who listen to the podcast are the Disney lovers/experts listening to get their "Disney fix" with the weekly news, not so much Disney "newbies" looking to plan trips.

To add on to this: even if the threads are negative, sometimes I'm interested to know what the podcast crew's thoughts are on the overall topic. Assuming they get a chance to review what the thread is about, it could lead to some very interesting discussions. Even if the thread topic is negative, the discussion surrounding it could be positive/illuminating.

(speaking for myself only here) Just listing out some useful planning threads, doesn't really do much for me (can probably find it on my own). That being said, I can definitely see how the threads that were listed would be helpful for a lot of people.

I think the christmas party review in the last podcast was a great example, and because they had a general feel for what everyone wanted to talk about, it was nice and balanced providing the pros nad cons without bringing the mood of the show down.

 

[Nezumi Fan]

I understand that there are issues like getting sick or your credit card gets stolen that can happen on any vacation. And those can be awful. But I kind of roll my eyes a bit when someone starts a thread that they couldn't get into this restaurant. Or a fastpass wasn't available for this attraction and they were upset. Those are the epitome of first world problems.

I think the epitome of "first-world problems" as they relate to Disney is the privilege of visiting Disney in the first place, really.

 

[Nezumi Fan]

I listened to the top ten trip planning threads segment in last weeks show and I much preferred the top ten most popular threads segment that has traditionally been done. I actually fast forwarded through most of the segment last week once I realized they were just planning threads from a few different boards (marathon planning, single parents, etc.) I'm a savvy boards user and I already know how to find threads that may pertain to my trip planning. I realize the segment may have been helpful to others...but I missed hearing feedback from the podcast group on those threads that really blew up on the boards in the past month...negativity and all.

Agreed. I don't enjoy the feeling that thoughts are being "policed." If you don't enjoy negative threads, especially if they're sincerely meant and not trolling, perhaps what should be changed is the individual (avoid any thread that seems a complaint?) than trying to force anyone else to change their opinions.