Need dog advice *GSD* Update! Photos post #51

OMG he's GORGEOUS! I just want to snuggle him and throw a tennis ball. :lovestruc

Hope everything continues to go well and that his heartworm treatment is over fast, so you guys can get on to the fun stuff. :goodvibes
 
Ohhh... I :love: him!!!

Hug him for me!!!

I had to keep my GSD calm for 6 weeks because she was recovering from ACL surgery. It isn't easy, but it's worth it. :hug:
 
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Here he is...Luke! I'm just excited I figured out out how to post a photo!

ohhhh, he just melted my heart!! what a beauty, and sweet looking too! I didn't read all posts... I'm sure you already know, but make sure your ds is the one who feeds him. Good luck!! :lovestruc
 


He is a beauty! One of our rescue dogs, came with heartworm, and while the treatment is rough, I agree with another poster that it isn't a death sentence. We had him treated last year and this year he is heartworm free! The treatment is long and its not fun but he is doing great now.
 
... I guess it's just neat to see a dog who seems to appreciate everything that is happening to him...

We also adopted a 2 year old GS from a similar situation and she really does seem to appreciate just being taken care of and loved so much more the other dogs. She connected with my DD and has been a wonderful companion and friend for her.We did do lots of training with her as I was also feeling cautious and it was well worth it.

I know the dog can't be worked with much right now but have you considered having the trainer just came and observed you walking and taking care of him? She might have some simple pointers in everyday care to help you gain and establish gentle respect. A big part of training this type of dog has to do with training the owner and their families to be good pack leaders.
 
Ok, I have another question. As you know we found out Luke has heartworms. Have any of you heard of treating Heartworms Naturally/Holistically ?

I mentioned to my neighbor that Luke has heartworms, and she told me she treated her rescue with a combination of Wormwood, Black Walnut and Cloves for heartworm. They had her retested 2 months after she began those herbs, and the vet said the heartworms were gone!

I found alot of info about it online, and called the vet. I'm waiting for a call back. I'm sure he will try to talk me out of it. But I'm wondering if anyone else has heard of this or had success with it.

One benefit of this is I wouldn't have to keep Luke still/confined for months if we went this route, not to mention he wouldn't be getting these harsh treatments, that I found out includes arsenic:eek:

What do you all think?
 


Ok, I have another question. As you know we found out Luke has heartworms. Have any of you heard of treating Heartworms Naturally/Holistically ?

I mentioned to my neighbor that Luke has heartworms, and she told me she treated her rescue with a combination of Wormwood, Black Walnut and Cloves for heartworm. They had her retested 2 months after she began those herbs, and the vet said the heartworms were gone!

I found alot of info about it online, and called the vet. I'm waiting for a call back. I'm sure he will try to talk me out of it. But I'm wondering if anyone else has heard of this or had success with it.

One benefit of this is I wouldn't have to keep Luke still/confined for months if we went this route, not to mention he wouldn't be getting these harsh treatments, that I found out includes arsenic:eek:

What do you all think?

Your "Western medicine" vet most likely won't go for it and wont' know how to treat this way. Can you consult with the vet your friend went to? I have a great holistic vet, but we're in NJ/NY area.
 
Your "Western medicine" vet most likely won't go for it and wont' know how to treat this way. Can you consult with the vet your friend went to? I have a great holistic vet, but we're in NJ/NY area.

No. she researched it on her own and her vet said that she had patients go the natural route, but she still wanted her to do the traditional treatment. So, basically my friend did it on her own.

I still haven't heard from my vet yet. Unless he has some really convincing reason not to do the natural treatment, I'm just gonna follow the program my neighbor did.

I'm a big believer in all things natural. I wish we had a holistic vet around here, I googled it, and didn't find anything.
 
SLSB, what are your reasons for wanting to go that route and what has your research shown about it?
 
SLSB, what are your reasons for wanting to go that route and what has your research shown about it?

The traditional treatment from what I can tell is basically like arsenic, and the dog has to be very still/ confined for the treatments which is at least 2 months.

If that is the only way to do it, I will do it to save Luke's life, but my main reason for wanting to explore the alternative treatment, is they are not required to be confined for that period of time, Not to mention there are negative side effects from that medicine they give for the heartworms.

Look up "Bandit's Buddies" ( if you feel like it) That is where I got the best information.

I likely wouldn't order the herbs from the website, I probably would just go to a vitamin store and pick them up.

All I know is my neighbor's dog took the herbs around 2 years ago, and she is heartworm free, so I think it's worth looking in to.
 
OK, thanks. I have no doubt that you are motivated to do what's best for the dog.

I think I can help explain this to you so you can make a good decision on Luke's behalf. I am a cardiac nurse with expertise in severely diseased hearts, so this is right up my alley.

To simplify (cause I've got things to do today! but know how important this is to you guys and Luke!) I am going to put this in my own words and then put some links at the bottom for your further perusal. Everything I am about to say is contained in those links for verification.

heartworms.JPG


I am sorry that's so graphic, but it's really necessary to see exactly what we're talking about when it comes to heartworm. This is an actual dog's heart completely congested with real heartworms. They are like spaghetti in a heart. No doubt this dog died from the disease. You will notice how enlarged the heart is and that's because it worked extra, extra hard in its lifetime trying to do its job working against all that congestion that shouldn't be there. (Think of how lovely it would have been to have free flow without all those worms.)

So sad when prevention is so simple. To be clear, dogs get it from the bite of a mosquito in which larvae is deposited into the dogs blood stream, travels to the heart and begins to grow there. If the dog is on preventative medicine, the larvae cannot grow. If it's not, then they can and will.

So what to do once heartworm is there? That is the question.

Veterinarians spend a LOT of time researching heartworm disease because it is such a very big problem in our pet population. It is probably one of the most studied things there is in veterinary medicine. What that means is that, for many years, they have studied a variety of circumstances and treatments to see what it's all about and what works best for it and what doesn't. Vets are well aware that time, money, and other circumstances, like owners having to confine pets for extended periods, all affect treatment decisions, and they strive to find things that will work best given those considerations.

So there is a ton of evidence based research to support the current heartworm treatment guidelines as recommended by the AMVA.

Standard treatment is considered safe and effective, especially in a younger, healthy dog, and especially when disease is early stage.

However, as with most other things, there are a few caveats. These seem to include your concerns so I will help explain them in simple terms.

Activity Guidelines in Heartworm Treatment

So once treatment is started, it is necessary for the dog to keep its activity level low. Why is that? There are a couple of reasons.

First, as we can see from the picture above, blood flow is impeded in a heartworm diseased heart, so the dog can become short of breath if he significantly increases his activity level. Think of how much more oxygen would be required for a dog running vs walking. This is a supply and demand situation. Running requires higher oxygen demand from blood; but due to congestion, the diseased heart can't supply it. So one cannot add that extra stress to the heart while the worms are there.

Second, there are some concerns as the worms die off. Fragments of dead worms break off and the dog's immune system sends cells there to clean them up. This process can result in thromboemolism, or blood clots, which can then cause changes in the vasculature of the heart and lungs that cause further disease in all of the structures leading to cardiopulmonary disease. The risk of this is small, especially in younger, healthy dogs with early disease, but it is always a concern in treatment.

Please note that with both of these issues, it is a problem regardless of the *type* of treatment one chooses.

The fact that the heartworms are there is the biggest problem of all, *not* whether the dog has traditional treatment or alternative treatment.


With that said (directly from one of the links)
Herbal Therapies

No “natural” or herbal therapies have been shown to be safe and effective prevention or treatment for heartworm disease.

They have also done research that showed that giving heartworm preventative pills as a treatment takes up to two years to kill all the worms and damage to the cardiopulmonary system in that time can occur.

So I, personally, would feel pretty safe with standard treatment.

And I would NOT undergo alternative treatments that not only that haven't been proven safe or effective, but could actually harm the dog more so than treatment that HAS been proven safe over many years of actual academic based, scientific research.

I am just sad that they're there at all. Yes, the conventional medicine does contain arsenic but it IS necessary to kill the worms and it is in small enough amounts to be safe to the dog. Again, researched up the ying yang. Millions of dogs have successfully undergone this treatment.

I just wanted to say a word about exercise in all of this in order to address your concerns.

One benefit of this is I wouldn't have to keep Luke still/confined for months if we went this route, not to mention he wouldn't be getting these harsh treatments, that I found out includes arsenic

my main reason for wanting to explore the alternative treatment, is they are not required to be confined for that period of time, Not to mention there are negative side effects from that medicine they give for the heartworms.
The word "confined" is sort of a scary word. You've used it and I see it in the literature as well. However, I doubt that the dog has to actually be confined as in kept in a crate all the time. One definition below is "in house or on leash". (Naturally you will get specific instructions from your own vet on exact activity guidelines he or she recommends.)

But yes, his activity level has to be somewhat restricted (i.e. he can't run or play hard) but he should be able to do normal activities like walking and moving about. Remember that part of this is related to the supply and demand issue so you wouldn't want to put extra stress on the heart during his treatment anyway. (The other part being that 1) worms can be pushed out into the lungs during heavy activity and/or 2) blood clots could break loose and cause damage in the lung or brain, etc., though the risk of this is extremely low.) Activity levels also seem to vary by stage of treatment.

Again, activity levels are a concern regardless of the treatment you choose.

So in other words, even if you go the alternative route, it is NOT ok to let the dog run around and doing so would be irresponsible even with the herbal treatment. BUT, the dog should not have to be completely confined like they might with an orthopedic procedure.

Although treatment involves risk, when we discover heartworms in dogs that are still in reasonably good shape, the risk is small. It’s not unusual to have complications, but nearly all dogs survive treatment and are much healthier afterwards.

Restrict activity

The first thing we need to do is restrict your dog’s activity (no ball chasing, running, or playing excitedly with the kids). The increased blood circulation from heavy exercise can push heartworms out of the major blood vessels and into the lungs, increasing the chance of developing congestive heart failure and possibly causing sudden collapse and death.

This is important: From the first stage of hospital treatment until 4 weeks after the second (about two months) your dog must be confined – in the house or on a leash. After that, only limited activity (no ball chasing, running, or playing excitedly with the kids) is allowed for an additional two months.

During the critical two months, most dogs are going to cough some and have days when they don’t feel well.

Links

http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/guide/heartworms-in-dogs-facts-and-myths

http://www.heartwormsociety.org/veterinary-resources/canine-guidelines.html#11

http://www.placervillevet.com/canine heartworm.htm

HTH and give Luke a scratch and a hug for me too! :hug: :dog:
 
A reminder for all of us:

In the meantime, Dr. Graham emphasizes, owners should bear in mind that the best offense against heartworm disease is a good defense—faithfully administering heartworm preventives on a year-round basis.

“While heartworm is a serious disease in dogs and cats, it is highly preventable,” notes Dr. Graham.
“We urge owners to ensure their pets get regular veterinary care, which includes an annual heartworm test and prescription of a heartworm preventative.”
 
The traditional treatment from what I can tell is basically like arsenic, and the dog has to be very still/ confined for the treatments which is at least 2 months.

If that is the only way to do it, I will do it to save Luke's life, but my main reason for wanting to explore the alternative treatment, is they are not required to be confined for that period of time, Not to mention there are negative side effects from that medicine they give for the heartworms.

Look up "Bandit's Buddies" ( if you feel like it) That is where I got the best information.

I likely wouldn't order the herbs from the website, I probably would just go to a vitamin store and pick them up.

All I know is my neighbor's dog took the herbs around 2 years ago, and she is heartworm free, so I think it's worth looking in to.

We have done heart worm treatments some of our rescues typically ivermectin is what is use just in a higher dose than the monthly heart worm pill given every month. Restricting his activity is a must either way. Good Luck and keep us posted.
 

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