MS claims no availability when there is plenty of cash availability?

[JimMIA]

I know she is family...but my rules for guests (including family)...they are MY points, it is MY vacation that you have been invited to share. Complainers are not invited, and if anyone complains while on the trip, or if they cancel last minute without a medical or pressing reason, they are not invited back. So far, two relatives are on that list. And my goodness, they can't imagine why?!

I agree with Chuck. You don't get to choose your family.

We have a lot of relatives, and I love them all dearly. But there are some I would take to DVC eagerly and others I wouldn't take on a bet.

It's not a good person/bad person thing in our family -- they're all great people. It's a high maintenance/low maintenance thing.

The relatives I would NOT take fall into three categories. One group would contribute nothing to the planning, complain about everything we scheduled as a group, constantly be late, and whine about the prices of everything.

Another smaller group would also not contribute to the planning, but would want to run the entire show once we got there...including demanding that everyone comply with their pet peeves/desires.

And the third group (not a small group, unfortunately) would be too unreliable to risk. They'd go back and forth about going, and would be a real risk to cancel at the last minute.

We love our family, but we don't take any of those folks on vacation with us.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

I know she is family...but my rules for guests (including family)...they are MY points, it is MY vacation that you have been invited to share. Complainers are not invited, and if anyone complains while on the trip, or if they cancel last minute without a medical or pressing reason, they are not invited back. So far, two relatives are on that list. And my goodness, they can't imagine why?!

Right on! Unfortunately, these aren't our points...the belong to my parents. Our points are too few to pay for annual holiday trips to Disney for so many people. My parents feel obligated (for whatever reason) to include Grandma, who I would definitely deem a complainer. She'll complain that the sky is blue, though, so what can you do She thinks that first floor rooms are "dangerous" Yeah, I stay in them gladly with my toddler (whoohoo! I don't have to lug 10 bags and a cooler up the stairs!), but yet they're "dangerous" for an elderly person Whatever.

She'll complain about her second-floor room too. We did request a building w/an elevator at OKW, but again it's just a request and not a guarantee. If she isn't on the 2nd floor, I can guarantee that she'll complain all week

I suggested selling the OKW points and buying elsewhere, but my dad thinks that Grandma may not want to come next year and that it won't be an issue. I think he's dreaming, but anyways...the rest of us like OKW just fine. I like that you can park right in front of your room, ESPECIALLY when it's on the 1st floor. That's so nice with a toddler in tow.

What is it about the 3 elevator buildings at OKW that makes parking difficult? That sounds like it might defeat the big perk of OKW in my mind

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

If you understand the explanation of why this happens, then why do you find it ridiculous?

I find it ridiculous because it adds a layer to booking these rooms. They ARE available, but not with points. I could still rent out my OKW reservation and book the available rooms w/cash at SSR with the money. What is the point in that, though? We all didn't buy points so we'd have the hassle of renting them out and then booking cash reservations.

 

[Chuck S]

I find it ridiculous because it adds a layer to booking these rooms. They ARE available, but not with points. I could still rent out my OKW reservation and book the available rooms w/cash at SSR with the money. What is the point in that, though? We all didn't buy points so we'd have the hassle of renting them out and then booking cash reservations.

There is little alternative, though. Someone has to pay for the cost of those trades. The choices are: 1)turn rooms over to cash to reimburse those costs, 2)increase dues to cover the cost of the trade location or 3)only allow trading to other DVC resorts or through a trading company like Interval International. There is no actual "revenue" to offset the trade cost if you allow the room to be booked by another member on points. And in fact, it would likely not be legal, as technically it would be booking the same room twice on points.

 

[lizziepooh]

I would let Grandma know ahead of time that you were unable to get SSR and because the resorts are full, she MAY be on first floor. If she absolutely can't deal with that, she may be more comfortable not going on this trip. I would put it nicely of course, but definitely prepare her for the possibility of being in a first floor room. That way, there are no unpleasant surprises for Grandma at checkin.

 

[dis-happy]

Worst case scenario: your waitlist to SSR comes through, you check-in and are placed in a first floor room. Merry Christmas Grandma!!!

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Worst case scenario: your waitlist to SSR comes through, you check-in and are placed in a first floor room. Merry Christmas Grandma!!!

I could TOTALLY see that happening

 

[Dean]

I'm guessing that CRO pays an agreed upon amount to DVC for those rooms (the ones used for Disney trades) when they are turned over to them. So they are CROs to do with as they please, chances are, during that time of year, they will rent for $$$ cash at the last minute, or be used as upgrades for an overbooked WDW resort.

My info suggests they pay nothing till the room is rented then they take a cut. There's some question whether that cut is 35% or a full 50%.

I completely understand about unsold points and points that have exited the DVC system for other uses, cruises etc. But how do they determine the time frame under which those points should be available to CRO? Since points that are owned have no specific time associated with them who decides what time frame these "unused" points should be available for cash sale?

Points have a use year and those parameters still apply. The rooms reserved with points are controlled by DVC. Those for cash equivalent exchanges can be turned over at any time. The breakage inventory is turned over at 60 days out. DVC legally has the right to anticipate availability and act accordingly thus turning over rooms they expect will be available even before they are.

 

[SueM in MN]

What is it about the 3 elevator buildings at OKW that makes parking difficult? That sounds like it might defeat the big perk of OKW in my mind

They were kind of added in after the resort was built. Building 64 doesn't have a parking lot, so you have to find a spot as close as possible to the building in another lot. Building 62 does have a lot in front of it, but it's also close to Building 16, so people from that building may park there (especially since some of the spots in the lot next to Building 16 are in use by people staying in Building 64).

 

[castleri]

The breakage inventory is turned over at 60 days out. DVC legally has the right to anticipate availability and act accordingly thus turning over rooms they expect will be available even before they are.

If they turn over the rooms at 60 days is this the inventory that would be used for those who (1) have points in a holding account to use or (2) are looking to make a last minute reservation. I have on several occasions added a day just before starting a trip so assume these points can be pulled back. I certainly hope so as I have 48 points in holding that I hope to use in March.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

If they turn over the rooms at 60 days is this the inventory that would be used for those who (1) have points in a holding account to use or (2) are looking to make a last minute reservation. I have on several occasions added a day just before starting a trip so assume these points can be pulled back. I certainly hope so as I have 48 points in holding that I hope to use in March.

The Breakage inventory is only rooms from member inventory that have not been reserved using points by the 60 day mark. Rooms in this category are available to CRO and may also still be used for point reservations. At most times of the year, there is little or no Breakage inventory though.

The OP question was asked at the annual meeting and the response was that they (legal department) were "looking into it". I think the actual question at the meeting had more to do with Developer Inventory, but it was morphed into the full "cash" availability issue.

As already noted in this thread, most of the cash availability comes from points used by members for non-DVC options and the cash generated is used to "pay" for those options (Cruise, Disney Collection, Concierge Colection).

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

The OP question was asked at the annual meeting and the response was that they (legal department) were "looking into it". I think the actual question at the meeting had more to do with Developer Inventory, but it was morphed into the full "cash" availability issue.

Interesting! I wonder if they ever looked into it and came to a conclusion that would be in the members' favor I understand what everyone is explaining on here about why there could be cash availability and not points availability, but I still feel that SOMETHING legal could be done to remedy this situation so members aren't left high and dry while rooms sit empty.

 

[JimMIA]

... but I still feel that SOMETHING legal could be done to remedy this situation so members aren't left high and dry while rooms sit empty.

Oh there is...and it's easy, legal, and quick to do. You just eliminate the ability to exchange out.

However, if we want to continue to exchange out -- and I'm sure we do -- we just have to put on our big-kid pants and deal with the fact that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

If we want to spend a week in Hawaii, we have to pay for it. DVC is not going to pay for our vacation, and it's beyond silly to suggest they return exchanged inventory to us.

The rooms that are sitting empty (if, in fact, any do) are not leaving the owners of that inventory "high and dry." The owners of that inventory are basking in the sun in Maui, and they are quite satisfied with their exchange.

It is also silly to suggest that DVC give us inventory they own outright. They do make that inventory available to us, and they offer us a 25% discount on it. I'm just glad they do that, and I certainly don't expect them to give it to us for nothing.

 

[ssonley]

Related to the points exchanged out - how does DVC decide which days to be taken?

I.e. if I exchange my 2008 points for an II trade (160 points say), how would DVC determine when the points would be reallocated to CRO?

Is it arbitrary? I.e. we know we can sell XMAS time at SSR so we'll transfer over as much as possible at that time... Or is there a system in place? For example if in total members use 36,500 points at a particular resort every year for exhanges and other things and therefore those 100,000 points will be transferred to CRO, does DVC allocate the 36,500/365 days = 100 points per day allocated to CRO?

Additionally, when would the allocation to CRO take place - prior to the 11 month window?

Just some of my thoughts.
Thanks,
Scott

 

[Dean]

Interesting! I wonder if they ever looked into it and came to a conclusion that would be in the members' favor I understand what everyone is explaining on here about why there could be cash availability and not points availability, but I still feel that SOMETHING legal could be done to remedy this situation so members aren't left high and dry while rooms sit empty.

There are realities at work here. While I understand it's frustrating for rooms to be available cash but not points, it is the way the system works. One simply has to be informed enough to understand why and mature enough to accept that's that's the way it is. There are timeshare resorts that have as many as four separate timeshare systems that own different units just as there are resorts where some units are wholy owned while others are part of a timeshare. There are even resorts where a full 50% of the units sit empty any given week where the owners simply don't show up. For any given group of cash units (breakage inventory, units given up for exchanges, unsold inventory, ROFR inventory) the units are gone at that point and DVC has little or no input as to what happens to those units.

 

[Dean]

Related to the points exchanged out - how does DVC decide which days to be taken?

I.e. if I exchange my 2008 points for an II trade (160 points say), how would DVC determine when the points would be reallocated to CRO?

Is it arbitrary? I.e. we know we can sell XMAS time at SSR so we'll transfer over as much as possible at that time... Or is there a system in place? For example if in total members use 36,500 points at a particular resort every year for exhanges and other things and therefore those 100,000 points will be transferred to CRO, does DVC allocate the 36,500/365 days = 100 points per day allocated to CRO?

Additionally, when would the allocation to CRO take place - prior to the 11 month window?

Just some of my thoughts.
Thanks,
Scott

No one know for sure. They say the try to get lessor demand weeks/units and spread them out among all resorts but more for those not as in demand. My info and experience would seem to concur. Still, it is not a perfect science and there will be higher demand times available. I've seen Xmas week, 4th of July and Easter at times. One could stay the entire month of Dec on an exchange if you chose. They don't give points to CRO. For exchange options they give the points to DVD which acts like a corporate member and reserves subject to the usual reservation rules. They then simply give the units to CRO. As for which points, it's the points you give up. Think of it as a transfer of points to another member without the limitations on transfers.

CRO normally would only get unsold inventory earlier than 11 months though DVC has the right/ability to anticipate inventory if they want.

 

[nuts]

I'm guessing that CRO pays an agreed upon amount to DVC for those rooms (the ones used for Disney trades) when they are turned over to them. So they are CROs to do with as they please, chances are, during that time of year, they will rent for $$$ cash at the last minute, or be used as upgrades for an overbooked WDW resort.

That is what I hear. These rooms, though available now, will be sold before Christmas. According to my friend, there are a lot of folks who decide to go to WDW at the last minute for the holidays (and pay the premium price).

 

[WebmasterDoc]

Related to the points exchanged out - how does DVC decide which days to be taken?

I.e. if I exchange my 2008 points for an II trade (160 points say), how would DVC determine when the points would be reallocated to CRO?

...

Actually, points banked into the World Passport Collection (II exchanges) are NOT reallocated to CRO at all - they are used to make a reservation at a DVC resort to be traded thru II - so that situation does not involve any CRO cash reservations at all and is not a part of cash availability at all.

 

[Jeremy&Susan]

Interesting! I wonder if they ever looked into it and came to a conclusion that would be in the members' favor I understand what everyone is explaining on here about why there could be cash availability and not points availability, but I still feel that SOMETHING legal could be done to remedy this situation so members aren't left high and dry while rooms sit empty.

Reminds me of a line from a movie;

"Some people you just can't reach"


My suggestion is to bring Gram and also buy into the food and wine dining package. You all know where I'm heading with this one.

 

[ssonley]

Webmasterdoc - the fact that they are reserved for a trade within II doesn't change the original question of how DVC (DVD) decides which week to reserve to put for trade to II...

Dean partially answered it - or at least indicated that an answer may not be available outside of the DVD offices. If DVD were taking points from high demand seasons to transfer to II or CRO I would expect that we would notice a significant lack of availability during those times of year so I suspect that Dean's submission that they use lesser times of the year would appear to be accurate based on what I have seen. I was just curious if someone knew for certain how this was done...

Thanks for the responses all.
Scott