Monorail accident

[OKW Lover]

The last time Disney chose to "run it till it can't run no more" people died.

When was this?

 

[cranbiz]

Did you know that the Orlando (MCO) airport has evacuation walkways all the way from airside to main terminal for its trams? Not fun to schlep your bags on with the sun beating down with all its Florida humidity, but better than waiting 2 hours for a rescue truck. For all I know all airports with elevated tram systems have such walkways.

While they do have walkways, the distance covered by the tram at MCO is far less than the distances covered by Disney's monorail. The cost to add walkways would be quite expensive and would take away from the aesthetics of the system. It will never happen. Forcing Disney to add evacuation walkways to the entire monorail system would spell it's demise.

 

[Josh Hendy]

While they do have walkways, the distance covered by the tram at MCO is far less than the distances covered by Disney's monorail. The cost to add walkways would be quite expensive and would take away from the aesthetics of the system. It will never happen. Forcing Disney to add evacuation walkways to the entire monorail system would spell it's demise.

This is the paradox of monorails ... if they're going to look "right", they have to look like a futuristic, gravity-defying space train. No walkways, why would a hovering space train need that? It spoils the illusion.

But it's not a cartoon, it's supposed to be a real, running train system ... and in the real world you can't defy gravity and shoot trains magically along a narrow beam suspended in the air. Hard to get power to it, hard to keep power to it, hard to switch tracks, hard to back up, hard to keep trains apart, hard to get people on and off the train ... especially when the train is broken down in between stations.

Efficient, practical things are un-sexy looking, because instead of looking like they're defying the laws of physics, they're completely and unapologetically bound by them. Like a 747 compared to a Concorde. Or WDW buses compared to the monorail.

 

[mrsmith9]

They are lucky that they had flat paved ground beneath the train for the trucks to access it. Imagine if it had been at one of the locations over the water?

 

[raugust]

I worked the Disneyland Monorail system for a couple of years, and my best guess is that the problem is with their intrusion system. This is the system that lets trains know when they are getting to close to one another, and will actually E Stop the train if it thinks you are getting too close. I suspect they made adjustments to it after that accident at the TTC a few years ago, but the re-calibrations are still giving them fits. We had this problem on the Disneyland Monorail system when the intrusion system was installed there (this was about 10 years ago) the trains would E-Stop, and then you have to power down the train, power it back up again and then restart the train. We had a small delay between the TTC and the Polynesian on our last trip. I noticed that the train's AC shut off, and then went back on again after the announcement that we would be moving in a few moments.

Just a guess though...

Good guess, called a system reset, done all the time on subway systems. Also frequency will increase as systems age and circuits, on countless boards weaken, and start to go. The entire electrical system is only as strong as the weakest circuit even with all the redundancy built in.

 

[LSUlakes]

They are lucky that they had flat paved ground beneath the train for the trucks to access it. Imagine if it had been at one of the locations over the water?

In the over the water scenario during the summer... I'm jumping out for a swim. Well maybe I'll check for potential wildlife hazards first.

 

[Aurora0427]

Just chiming in to say we just returned from a ten day stay at the GF. I'm 7 months pregnant, and I was very worried about the monorail breaking down and getting stuck on that damn thing for hours with no AC. Fortunately, we didn't have any breakdowns, but we did use the boats more than the monorail. But I admit every time we got on I did wonder if we'd make it to MK!!!!

 

[Jake]

I love the monorails. It just they are like 20 years old and falling apart. The rail is in bad shape. Like many repairs done to it. If they replace the Monoralia with new one, will the whole system last another 20 years ? I am not a big buss fan. But they are not extending the monorail system. So it it kinder not fit anymore. Except they can be driverless that saves them money. And Eianey is big on saving money

 

[Musicman20]

Weirdly, after 4 visits from the UK from being 8-9, to being 34 this year, I've always loved the Monorail. I even think it still has that charm of Disney about it...and we are back in 2016

PS - it did break down when we we visited in Oct 2015 but we weren't on it.

 

[7series]

No, this wasn't because the monorails are ancient or falling apart. They were doing some kind of test and a tow tractor ran into a monorail.

http://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/...been-a-monorail-accident-at-walt-disney-world

 

[JoWiJo]

No, this wasn't because the monorails are ancient or falling apart. They were doing some kind of test and a tow tractor ran into a monorail.

http://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/...been-a-monorail-accident-at-walt-disney-world

Different story. This thread was created about something that happened in October. But given the thread title, I can see how someone would jump to the conclusion this was about what happened yesterday.

 

[mcjaco]

That's exactly my point. Thank you.

I keep reading "monorail breakdowns are increasing" as if there's some data to back it up.

WDW has 12 trains which can run 18+ hours per day. Breakdowns are unavoidable and frankly, the handful of instances I've read about on the 'net don't strike me as being outside the acceptable range for mass transit.

If they were evacuating trains 2, 3, 4 times per month, that would seem troubling. A couple times per year seems to fall within expectations even if you're running a brand new fleet. 100% uptime is not a realistic goal.

We all know Disney is strongly focused on dollars-and-cents. They are undoubtedly investing a lot into maintaining the current monorail fleet--more than they would be spending to maintain newer trains. Additionally there is a very real cost associated with every breakdown; everything from the cost of response / maintenance crews, downtime for the impacted section of the line, ramping-up alternate forms of transportation, comps for impacted guests, bad PR, etc.

Anyone that rides, or has riden, mass transit systems on a daily basis knows how often they suffer from mechanical issues. I can count on one hand, how many times over thirteen years of riding Metra I had a a full week without some sort of issue that delayed us.

I think many would disagree here. People often say you would be able to eat off the ground on opening day and in the 70s today people don't think you can. Also the cleanliness of the bathrooms have been brought up a lot lately.

This is all heresay. And it's tainted with nostalgia.

 

[rteetz]

This is all heresay. And it's tainted with nostalgia.

Heresay or not I will say that Disney parks a lot cleaner than Six flags. I don't go often enough to notice the bathrooms but I have heard a lot about them just being very unclean lately.

 

[Planogirl]

Disney parks used to be cleaner overall than they are now. My theory is that they are having trouble keeping up with sloppy crowds.

As for the monorail trains, they aren't in great shape. I often feel like I don't want to touch anything when I ride.

 

[mcjaco]

Heresay or not I will say that Disney parks a lot cleaner than Six flags. I don't go often enough to notice the bathrooms but I have heard a lot about them just being very unclean lately.

Now you're changing the argument.

 

[rteetz]

Now you're changing the argument.

How? I was mentioning a theme park company that is not disney to compare cleanliness. I also mentioned i still hear things about disney not being as clean as they used to be especially the bathrooms.

 

[minnie mum]

How? I was mentioning a theme park company that is not disney to compare cleanliness. I also mentioned i still hear things about disney not being as clean as they used to be especially the bathrooms.

And I think some of the complaints about the restrooms are valid. But in the "good old days" of pristine parks and restrooms, the custodial staff weren't having to deal with the huge numbers of guests that they have to clean up after today.

I think they do an excellent job under the circumstances. And I think that a lot of the problems we hear about can be traced back to Disney struggling to support the massive daily crowds- from transportation to custodial, to resort maintenance, to dining. There comes a point when quality of services suffers. I think we're well past that point.

 

[mcjaco]

How? I was mentioning a theme park company that is not disney to compare cleanliness. I also mentioned i still hear things about disney not being as clean as they used to be especially the bathrooms.

We're discussing how cleanliness at WDW from the 70's to now have changed. Then you compare it to Six Flags.

You threw an orange into a apple vs. really old apple conversation.

 

[Josh Hendy]

All this came about IIRC because Disney had a day with extra-long hours and opened the parks to extra-large crowds. The hours were very long and the employees were overworked. On the one hand an insufficiently trained worker changed a switch to the wrong settings, and on the other hand, the front-line manager who might have been directly supervising the switchover and correcting the mistake was offsite eating at a restaurant supervising only with a radio. The switch setting was wrong, the employees on site didn't notice until too late, and the trains crashed.

Automating the trains was one possible response.

But spending more on personnel, like by doing more training and having more management and direct supervision on site at all times would also have been a valid response. Or adding a second driver to the end of every train whenever it has to reverse. Especially on the days when the parks are jammed and the hours are long. Disney is after all making far more money on those days.

 

[JoWiJo]

All this came about IIRC because Disney had a day with extra-long hours and opened the parks to extra-large crowds. The hours were very long and the employees were overworked. On the one hand an insufficiently trained worker changed a switch to the wrong settings, and on the other hand, the front-line manager who might have been directly supervising the switchover and correcting the mistake was offsite eating at a restaurant supervising only with a radio. The switch setting was wrong, the employees on site didn't notice until too late, and the trains crashed.

Automating the trains was one possible response.

But spending more on personnel, like by doing more training and having more management and direct supervision on site at all times would also have been a valid response. Or adding a second driver to the end of every train whenever it has to reverse. Especially on the days when the parks are jammed and the hours are long. Disney is after all making far more money on those days.

That particular accident was a perfect storm of events. Remove any one of many factors, and the crash may not have occurred: Switching mistake, the pilot who didn't notice the mistake, no panic button for station cast members, the ill manager, the replacement manager eating off-site when he was called in, bad timing for the approaching train, etc.

But I'd like to mostly reply to the part of the quote I boldfaced:

From what I've read, it used to be policy that pilots were in the rear car during a rail switch, and technically was policy even at the time of the crash, but between laziness and dollars, they simply didn't follow protocol. Had they followed it, the accident certainly would not have occurred. When you get down to it, that accident was 100% preventable despite all those other things, if only had Disney followed its own policy.

Did the 2009 event lead them toward automation? I believe so. But the thing is, automation doesn't eliminate problems. Computers glitch, hardware fails, and mechanics fail. They could be setting themselves up for disaster if they decide to full automation with no CM on board, seeing as they don't provide an emergency evacuation walkway for the monorail.